Wayt... Whut???

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It seems abundantly clear to me that the CoS doesn't challenge Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder in court and probably never will because the Church doesn't dare set up a situation where R&R could testify on the record about things the Church doesn't want them testifying about in court ... EVER.

R&R seem to be in their unique position of innoculation from CoS litigation (which, in turn, gives them a unique advantage as CoS antagonists) because of the roles they played of coordinating the Church's legal affairs when they were in the cult and because of the overlap between their activities and Miscavige's activities -- and their knowledge of what Miscavige was doing.

Compared to R&R, Debbie Cook knew bupkus, nada, nichts about Miscavige's doings. Sure, he'd threatened to have someone break her thumb and abused her physically, mentally, emotionally in the Hole. She may also have known about at least one other thing, which she didn't reveal publicly, but only hinted about revealing (in an email she sent to someone in the CoS after they told her she was in violation of her NDA).

I agree that Debbie's sway over Miscavige on January 1, 2012, was the fact that she was still in very close contact (via Facebook and email) with Kool-Aide drinkers. R&R did not have that kind of contact. Therefore, as others have said, Miscavige wanted to cut her communications with the KA drinkers, OT Committee types, and whales.

Something no one has mentioned in this thread yet (although it was mentioned back in 2012 when these events were coming down) is that Cook had no idea that she had any legal rights at all.

A final thing I'd like to correct is that Rathbun did NOT find Ray Jeffrey for Debbie. He didn't know Jeffrey. Somebody else found Jeffrey for Cook. And the rest is history.


Good post!

And to further support what you are saying, whenever someone brings a complaint vs COB/COS these days the very first thing COB tries to orchestrate is to have Rinder/Rathbun banned from providing testimony. They even went so cult-wacky that they even tried to have Rathbun's [STRIKE]KR[/STRIKE] Declaration struck from the record! LOL

The desperation is so complete that the last three (3) major lawsuits brought vs COB also resulted in him trying to kick the plaintiff's attorneys off the case too! LOL

CULT OF LITIGATION IDEAL SCENE: Anyone seeking to expose the cult's malfeasance, fraud & crimes is therefore a "criminal" and "criminals" must be afforded the inalienable right to not have attorneys nor enter so-called "evidence" or sneakily use eyewitnesses.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I only started this thread just about 48 hours ago and already 5500 views. Not a very hot subject.

Speaking of hot, while I sit on my soapbox and burst into flames.... :flames:

Just kidding. I guess I have made my point. Now I just sit back and watch.


Until I have to interject again...
 

Lone Star

Crusader
:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Gee…I wonder who could be
committing all these evil overts?
Oh I don't know…….
Could it be……….

Church-Lady6%2B%25282%2529.jpg


[STRIKE]Satan[/STRIKE] THETAN?!


:hysterical:


You knew I was channeling the Church Lady!! You must be Oatee!!
 

Gib

Crusader
I only started this thread just about 48 hours ago and already 5500 views. Not a very hot subject.

Speaking of hot, while I sit on my soapbox and burst into flames.... :flames:

Just kidding. I guess I have made my point. Now I just sit back and watch.


Until I have to interject again...

It's a great tread and I'm enjoying speaking my mind. :thumbsup:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
While I do not have any doubt whatsoever that $CN hides this kind of money transfer in that way, especially in the case Arnie pointed out where one entity sued another (something neither could do without the Dwarf's consent), I don't think that's true in the Cook case. The Dwarf was personally targeted by Debbie, and given the personality and short fuse on that man, I doubt he'd ever sign off on a scheme that left egg on his reputation.

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
Mr. Miscavige, we have done as you asked and after an exhaustive
analysis have reached a consensus on your legal position in this lawsuit.

COB
And?

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
And, in strictly legal terms….
You are fucked!

COB
What do you suggest?

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
Same as we suggested going into this case.
You settle, no matter how much it costs.

COB
But then if i pay them millions without a confidentiality
agreement, they are going to say bad things about me.

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
In all respect, Dave, they have already posted it all
or said it already.

COB
That's it?! That's the strategy I paid
you cocksuckers $4M to tell me?!

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
No, sir! We have a very effective strategy
to deal with the continuing "natter" and "black pr"
after you pay them somewhere between $5M to $10M.

COB
I'm waiting, it better be good. . .

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
After the settlement, you take out full page ads
in the NYT and USA Today. At the top it has a photo
of the Rathbuns where we make them look really fat
and ugly. Ya know, we doctor it to make them look
like "psychotic SPs". Then below that in the biggest
font possible, the copy reads: YSCOHB!

COB (thinks it over)
Okay, that sounds good. Let's go with that.
I knew you'd come up with something effective.
 

Gib

Crusader
COB LEAD ATTORNEY
Mr. Miscavige, we have done as you asked and after an exhaustive
analysis have reached a consensus on your legal position in this lawsuit.

COB
And?

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
And, in strictly legal terms….
You are fucked!

COB
What do you suggest?

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
Same as we suggested going into this case.
You settle, no matter how much it costs.

COB
But then if i pay them millions without a confidentiality
agreement, they are going to say bad things about me.

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
In all respect, Dave, they have already posted it all
or said it already.

COB
That's it?! That's the strategy I paid
you cocksuckers $4M to tell me?!

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
No, sir! We have a very effective strategy
to deal with the continuing "natter" and "black pr"
after you pay them somewhere between $5M to $10M.

COB
I'm waiting, it better be good. . .

COB LEAD ATTORNEY
After the settlement, you take out full page ads
in the NYT and USA Today. At the top it has a photo
of the Rathbuns where we make them look really fat
and ugly. Ya know, we doctor it to make them look
like "psychotic SPs". Then below that in the biggest
font possible, the copy reads: YSCOHB!

COB (thinks it over)
Okay, that sounds good. Let's go with that.
I knew you'd come up with something effective.


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
So this Debbie thing is a set up where she is paid a settlement into the hudreds of millions and leave with it to bank it out of the country and find a retirement home for DM and arrange a flight out of the USA as some ficticious name to arrive at secure home in a country with no extradition and leaves the world of Scientology to rot.

The Loyal Officers, the Baugmartens, get their payoff and freedom and no one is the wiser because they were enemies of DM.

Maybe that's why they seem so relaxed on those beaches, because they know the CO$ is not after them but depending on them.

What a plan
This will sound like a conspiracy theory for some...and may or may not apply to Debbie Cook...likely not, but I wish to point out a pattern I have noted re some scientology litigations..

I cannot find the case to cite at the instant, but I recall finding a case between Building Services (a scientology entity) and CSI or maybe it was CC Int at the Manor..
.

Now, I was thinking, WTF is one cos entity suing another cos entity for?

Well, all I could come up with was that the fact that Building Services Inc was not a non profit, and the detail that it was a $cn (Dwarf controlled) corporation was OMITTED, so the judge, did his job, and adjudicated... and rendered a judgement in favor of building services, which could then collect MONEY from a NON-PROFIT for whatever it needed that money for, using color of law - that being the judgement!



There was another very weird case a decade ago, that smelled similar... seems some guys were driving a tractor trailer up highway 101 through LA County enroute to some big gun show or club in Oregon... The LAPD got a "Tip" that gun-runners were coming up 101 in a tractor trailer filled with machine guns... The LA cops raided the truck, seized the cargo and released a statement that they had just caught a bunch of GUN RUNNERS on Highway 101.. Well, now it gets interesting, seems those 'gun runners' were repped by Lawrence Heller, yes this Heller: The Lawrence Heller that is appointed for life as a Special Director of CST, who then brought a lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles for Libel and WON a judgement against the city, which was then negotiated privately for an undisclosed settlement amount, (fleecing the taxpayers of Los Angeles, ) AND using a guy on the city council who was also very friendly with $cientology, named Richard Alatorre

Nothing here would seem odd to anyone UNLESS you knew that Lawrence Heller = Church of Spiritual Technology = Scientology = Dwarf = Richard Allatore. Which then makes the whole she-bang starting from the bogus 'tip' that caused the LA PD to stop that truck all the way to the secret negotiations for settlement cash from the city of LA Councilman Richard Allatore, sound more like "an elaborate fraud to make some money" - which, incidentally, is another commonality with $cientology.

OK for those few who have tracked the implications of the above, there is no reason why, a high ranking sea org member, could not accomplish getting paid a shit pot of retirement cash, using "color of law" as part of a nod and a wink prior deal with the dwarf, after all, Hubbard did say, "perhaps a thousand times" that there was only one rule in $cientology - Don't get caught.

Food for thought...isn't it? I am making no allegations, merely trying to allow those who are interested to look through my eyes and then reach their own conclusions... and be alert for "repetition of successful actions" (Scn pattern of conduct) ...to get big money OUT of a supposed non-profit tax-exempt organization... using 'color of law'.

Arnie

Day 2, page 23, Clearwater Commission Hearings, L Ron Hubbard's son speaking under oath: http://www.lermanet.com/82cwcommission/2-021-040.htm "my father always felt that he was above the law because he had created the law. He created whatever rules, regulations, and laws to be lived by. There was only one sin in Scientology, which was repeated to me at least a few thousand times, which is, getting caught."
 

Anonycat

Crusader
So this Debbie thing is a set up where she is paid a settlement into the hudreds of millions and leave with it to bank it out of the country and find a retirement home for DM and arrange a flight out of the USA as some ficticious name to arrive at secure home in a country with no extradition and leaves the world of Scientology to rot.

The Loyal Officers, the Baugmartens, get their payoff and freedom and no one is the wiser because they were enemies of DM.

Maybe that's why they seem so relaxed on those beaches, because they know the CO$ is not after them but depending on them.

What a plan

So that's why they drove cross country for their departure from the US; they were transporting a large bank deposit to Guadeloupe. Possibly shipping gold bricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Rinder and Marty blew staff.

Marty escaped on his motorcycle.
Rinder was at St Hill and had to go somewhere for a cycle via the train and instead of going to where he was supposed to go, he instead went to John Sweeny of BBC. IIRC.

When one blows staff, there is no NDA. One just blows......leaves very quickly and doesn't tell anybody. Blow actually does mean escape. All staff members know when you blow, you get declared.

Debbie routed off staff, so there is an NDA. She wanted to be in good standing and not get declared.


"Routing Out the Sea Org" (to avoid Declare & remain in good standing) is from the same book of Scientology Mythology as awarding someone the multi-life, "Ethics Protection" status of Kha-Khan.

"In an ancient army a particularly brave deed was recognized by and award of the title of Kha-Khan. It was not a rank. The person remained what he was, BUT he was entitled to be forgiven the death penalty ten times in case in the future he did anything wrong. That was Kha-Khan." (- Hubbard)

HELPFUL HINT: In Scientology, there is no "Ethics Protection"--it's all a mythed-withhold. Because, all Cook or any other Kha-Khan need do in order to lose all 10 lives is to just 1 time interfere with the cult's Kha-Ching.
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
ok thanks JB. I guess those NDA's signed by Rinder & Marty are because they were in the SO. Whereas I was mostly cl 4 org staff & public.

But, are you confusing NDA with the signed declarations they made as officers, or maybe they are the same?[/QUOTE]

I hope someone here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read about "declarations" having to be signed by SO staff or corporate officers within CSI, Co$, or RTC -- so I think it's as you suggest, Gib, that the NDAs for R&R were legal agreements signed during their respective tenure designed to keep confidential material/information confidential...or be subject to financial penalties.

There appears to be only one NDA available on the net executed by Mr. Rathbun -- IIRC it's dated 1987(?).
NDAs for Mr. Rinder - definitely more than one -- were executed early 90's, late 90's (?), and 00's.

It stands to reason these agreements were employment-based, not required as a mandatory condition of membership in Co$ as a 'public'. I don't know if certain, key staff personnel - not sea org people -- might also have signed NDAs with Co$. Anyone know?

Most people who work in mgmt positions in large (-er) American-based companies sign similar non-disclosure agreements and have done so since the mid-80's when they became fashionable. In the 90's, dot-com start-ups seemed to push NDAs into overdrive, and bio-medical research companies have the baton now.
I wasn't able to find many 'faith-based' organizations that used NDAs/bond-holder NDAs way back in the 80's & 90's -- but then I realized the 'trademark' issue was probably what lured Co$ down the NDA path for its mgmt personnel.

What stood out for me when I reviewed them online a few weeks ago was that:
(a) monetary 'punishments' were built-in -- every violation costs "x" dollars, plus legal fees to prosecute(!); and,
(b) there was no 'end-date' clause which defined when the agreements' non-disclosure period expired.

So, I went to Wiki and FindLaw and quite a few other websites to see if this was 'normal' - and to research the history of NDAs in American business.

YMMV - but there are tons of court opinions where these two issues were litigated, separately for the most part, and judges seem much happier to enforce NDAs/bond-holder NDAs against a 'violator' when the 'life expectancy' of the agreement is clearly spelled out so everyone knows when the agreement ends. When there's no 'end date', the court opinions I saw suggested a real reluctance to enforce the penalties.

If an agreement is supposed to last forever, the amount of money received for agreed-upon silence should be equitable. If an agreement clearly states it's to last 10 years, same rules apply -- the money received should be equitable. That's what I found, generally speaking, and it made sense to me.

What's never made sense to me is how many legal and 'looks-legal' documents public, staff, and sea org members ALL sign without having an attorney review before-hand. At best it's disingenuous, since the individual being asked to sign surely had no part in drafting the page(s) or negotiating reasonable terms -- and at worst? It's abusive and willfully cruel.

JB - there's still time to vote for Leah, folks. Please? I'm surrounded by people who are "roar"-ing here. Off-key. A lot. :biggrin:
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
One thing I can't wrap my head around.

Usually in ongoing fraud or donation schemes, there are many people who benefit financially. Or perhaps just one that benefits enormously . . . multi-millions enormously. And somewhat in the open with Bentleys, villas all over the world, and a very splashy visible lifestyle. I don't see the money trail enriching many people here. You have DM and his lawyers that benefit and everyone else is in a slave status.

All I see is what I can only describe as a net worth mulching machine for the benefit of one. Sorta running on auto-pilot at this point on the strength of written COS policies. Can you help me out here? :confused2:

You are not the only confused one. I was in for years, including time in the Sea Org at Flag. As far as I can tell, most of the money went uplines, and much of the money which went uplines was spent on GO and OSA's suppression of critics.

Your description IS accurate. Scn was a "net worth mulching machine".

More than that, for those who spent many years "in", it was a "life and soul mulching machine".
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
You are not the only confused one. I was in for years, including time in the Sea Org at Flag. As far as I can tell, most of the money went uplines, and much of the money which went uplines was spent on GO and OSA's suppression of critics.

Your description IS accurate. Scn was a "net worth mulching machine".

More than that, for those who spent many years "in", it was a "life and soul mulching machine".

Wasn't Flag bringing in about 2 million per week? Or at least 1.5 million per week. That is their average. Maybe someone else here knows.

For Saint Hill Size, when I was in, it had to be I think 250K a week brought in. That was about what CCI was making.

Of course, most of that went into savings or up to Int. All lower orgs had no money. That was common.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
It seems abundantly clear to me that the CoS doesn't challenge Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder in court and probably never will because the Church doesn't dare set up a situation where R&R could testify on the record about things the Church doesn't want them testifying about in court ... EVER.

R&R seem to be in their unique position of innoculation from CoS litigation (which, in turn, gives them a unique advantage as CoS antagonists) because of the roles they played of coordinating the Church's legal affairs when they were in the cult and because of the overlap between their activities and Miscavige's activities -- and their knowledge of what Miscavige was doing.

An NDA is a contract. You cannot contract with somebody to withhold testimony about criminal acts.

If Rathbun or Rinder are put on the stand in court, and asked about criminal acts by others in the CoS, no NDA would apply to stop them. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, although many years as a business owner had me reading a lot about the law as it might apply to me).
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
An NDA is a contract. You cannot contract with somebody to withhold testimony about criminal acts.

If Rathbun or Rinder are put on the stand in court, and asked about criminal acts by others in the CoS, no NDA would apply to stop them. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, although many years as a business owner had me reading a lot about the law as it might apply to me).

I completely agree, Enthetan.

And that's why (I think) the CoS has never sued R and/or R.

However, it's possible that with the filing of Mosey's lawsuit that R&R are getting down to the short strokes, as the saying goes.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Ms. Cook testified she was on the phone with David Miscavige as the 'goons' came through the window.
JB

It would have been interesting if she had somebody there prepared to blow the goons away as soon as they entered through the window (which she would have the right to do in most states). In which case, the entire hierarchy which ordered the goons could have been up on felony murder charges (in states with "felony murder" laws, if somebody dies during the commission of a crime, then all participants in the crime are liable)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
All the Flag Whales knew Debbie personally. :coolwink:

That's the important part. When talking to somebody who knew Debbie personally, and who liked Debbie, all that would happen if somebody talked trash about her, is that the trash-talker would be discounted.
 

pkatz

Patron with Honors
Then below that in the biggest
font possible, the copy reads: YSCOHB!

COB (thinks it over)
Okay, that sounds good. Let's go with that.
I knew you'd come up with something effective.
I'm fairly intelligent. Really.

I get most of the cartoons in the New Yorker.

What is YSCOHB?
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
You Suck Cock on Hollywood Boulevard.

It was uttered by Miscavige so many times to his subordinates that he started typing "YSCOHB" in his texts to them.

Rinder has screen shots of them from his latter days in the Sea Org. Funny!

EDIT: And that's how memes are created. :)
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
You Suck Cock on Hollywood Boulevard.

It was uttered by Miscavige so many times to his subordinates that he started typing "YSCOHB" in his texts to them.

Rinder has screen shots of them from his latter days in the Sea Org. Funny!

EDIT: And that's how memes are created. :)

YSCOHB is an Interesting "projection" from $cientology's supposed Eccleasiastic Leader
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
You Suck Cock on Hollywood Boulevard.

It was uttered by Miscavige so many times to his subordinates that he started typing "YSCOHB" in his texts to them.

Rinder has screen shots of them from his latter days in the Sea Org. Funny!

EDIT: And that's how memes are created. :)

And this is mankinds greatest hope for the salvation of billions and billions of years of the dwindling spiral.... :screwy:
 
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