Welcome Jonathan!

Just so you know, Jonny...

You and the people who join the Sea Org have a lot in common.

Give up everything and everyone you have had in your life to join this group....

This is where you are. No matter what you see and what you experience, your whole nest egg is there.

You have no choice.


That is very accurate. Thanks for saying so.

Jonathan
 

Gib

Crusader
Hi,

I've learned about my own vulnerabilities. Unfortunately, I've also come to learn that 'help' could be used in a sinister way. But above and beyond all, I've experienced a new level of compassion and understanding for people, especially those that have gone through this experience and that is why I am here with you now.
I've met some of my most favorite people through Scn and I understand how they are stuck and cannot break free.

Jonathan

It's a hard thing to do, break others free. As a comparison, how does one explain to some other religious faith person that there is no god or jesus or allah? (I'm not saying there is no god, just saying if I believed there was no god and I was trying to convince another)

Funny thing with hubbard, he was telling us thru his tech that he was promising us freedom of choice, self determined thought, increase in abilities, and at the same time installing fixed ideas in us members that denied these things. Wow dude, quite the trick.
 

RogerB

Crusader
<.. Snipped..>

According to Roger being out front and posting as yourself is more powerful. I submit that Mark Baker fits that category, but HH doesn't. Yet HH has more power on this board. Representing yourself as your name is not the key ingredient.

I say "stay under the radar"

post all your experiences and thoughts, just don't get yourself googled as your name in business and personal life.

Actually, I was commenting on your hidden, behind the scenes "don't tell Karen" shit . . .

What's with the Fabian thing you run . . . you so frequently attack and falsely report on folks who assumed you to be on the same side is it a little startling.

What you had to advise Jonathan on would have been quite proper to have put public. Indeed it was my stance until that dumbo Terril outed me here by blasting my full name on ESMB within the first week I was was on ESMB. :duh: Some people just cannot think!

The issue of earned respect and power I referred to is on the issue of being honest enough to communicate openly . . . it was directed at your behind the scenes 3P "don't tell Karen" trick.

One wonders at you agenda . . .

It is accepted on ESMB that many need to operate behind a nic, and Jonathan uses one.

Jonathan, under his nic, will communicate powerfully and stand tall . . . he doesn't need to do it under his real name . . . but doing a "don't tell Karen" trick on a hidden comm line is not true power and as you are finding out among truly honest and powerful people discredits and thus weakens the validity of its purveyor.

R
 

RogerB

Crusader
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by AnonyMary

Try googling these words <snip>
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Dulloldfart

Congratulations. You just guaranteed that future Google searches will lead to this thread.

How it was working, I believe, was that his full name *was* in this thread, which Google indexed. This thread was then edited to remove his surname, at least the text of it as the image doesn't count, and after a few days the revised thread would have replaced the old thread in Google.

And the person that quoted your message in full repeated the error.

Paul


Yeah! I know! Jeesh! Don't do that! :duh:

Great . . . I was going to ask the Mods to remove the "Outing" of Jonathan's full name and links in the post GOF cited . . . but I see, as I go back to get the post #, they are wonderfully on the ball and ahead of me.

R
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Great . . . I was going to ask the Mods to remove the "Outing" of Jonathan's full name and links in the post GOF cited . . . but I see, as I go back to get the post #, they are wonderfully on the ball and ahead of me.

R

I asked the mods to delete it once informed...

Paul, I only replied to a question and had not read the whole thread to know anything about the being a need for anonymity. I thought that since the name was in the OP doc that the name was out there. And it was because it came up in the Google search I posted. Never the less, I was alerted to the problem by PM and then requested the post be deleted, along with it being quoted by another. Both are gone now.

Mary
 
Thank you! You have a great sense of humor.

I agree, it probably wasn't all a con or let's just say the con had some workability to it, much stolen from elsewhere, so as not to be too easily recognized as such. The individuals, most of them, wanted to help you. Their stats and constant demands from the insatiable organization were diametrically opposed to that desire to help you as yourself and for what you needed. All for the group -- collectivism.


Yes, I would say that the employees working for the WISE group wanted to help and that they were genuine. But I am absolutely certain that the owners were about power and control and just wanted to close you to close you no matter if it helped you or not or even if it was destructive and disruptive to your practice. Wait until I post my story about how it ended with that group. I will post their proposed 'settlement waiver and mutual release'... probably another cookie-cutter letter / DIY legal form borrowed from the church.

When I left, they acted JUST like the CoS. Ok, ESMB... now you got me going. I'll post more later.

ARC, (kidding)
Jonathan
 
Actually, I was commenting on your hidden, behind the scenes "don't tell Karen" shit . . .

What's with the Fabian thing you run . . . you so frequently attack and falsely report on folks who assumed you to be on the same side is it a little startling.

What you had to advise Jonathan on would have been quite proper to have put public. Indeed it was my stance until that dumbo Terril outed me here by blasting my full name on ESMB within the first week I was was on ESMB. :duh: Some people just cannot think!

The issue of earned respect and power I referred to is on the issue of being honest enough to communicate openly . . . it was directed at your behind the scenes 3P "don't tell Karen" trick.

One wonders at you agenda . . .

It is accepted on ESMB that many need to operate behind a nic, and Jonathan uses one.

Jonathan, under his nic, will communicate powerfully and stand tall . . . he doesn't need to do it under his real name . . . but doing a "don't tell Karen" trick on a hidden comm line is not true power and as you are finding out among truly honest and powerful people discredits and thus weakens the validity of its purveyor.

R

I had to look up Fabian


adj
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) of, relating to, or resembling the delaying tactics of the Roman general Q. Fabius Maximus (died 203 bc) who withstood Hannibal while avoiding a pitched battle; cautious; circumspect

It was, in retrospect, a stupid thing to say, to not tell Karen.

On a previous new person to ESMB, where I had known her at ASHO, and she was now accusing a former C/S known for his E Type and Buntline Special of repeated rapes. Other parts of her story seemed to be false ( degrees, schooling), at least heavily unbelieved by the ESMB posters. I contacted her, reintroduced myself. She remembered me. i told her she needed to consult an attorney if she was going to make strong accusations such as rape concerning a living person in public forums, having never reported it to the cops.. .Karen wanted to have her story in the Village Voice. I wanted her to have some legal umbrella before she got herself in hot water.

To be honest, it gets old being a nay sayer.

Decades earlier, when I was in Scientology, I often went against the grain. I'm just a bad team player that's who I am.

Trouble recently wrote about doing OT 3 with an ex husband and AO staff watching her responses closely.

By comparison, when I "did" OT 3, I spent more time by the pool, going to the flickers, Disneyland, and listening to the radio while writing up loads of hours of "sessions" I found it easier to falsify worksheets than openly say what crap I found OT 3 to be.

Call it chicken shit. Call it whatever you like. After awhile it gets old fibghting the prevalent tide. I tend to default to non confrontation.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I had to look up Fabian


adj
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) of, relating to, or resembling the delaying tactics of the Roman general Q. Fabius Maximus (died 203 bc) who withstood Hannibal while avoiding a pitched battle; cautious; circumspect

It was, in retrospect, a stupid thing to say, to not tell Karen.

On a previous new person to ESMB, where I had known her at ASHO, and she was now accusing a former C/S known for his E Type and Buntline Special of repeated rapes. Other parts of her story seemed to be false ( degrees, schooling), at least heavily unbelieved by the ESMB posters. I contacted her, reintroduced myself. She remembered me. i told her she needed to consult an attorney if she was going to make strong accusations such as rape concerning a living person in public forums, having never reported it to the cops.. .Karen wanted to have her story in the Village Voice. I wanted her to have some legal umbrella before she got herself in hot water.

To be honest, it gets old being a nay sayer.

Decades earlier, when I was in Scientology, I often went against the grain. I'm just a bad team player that's who I am.

Trouble recently wrote about doing OT 3 with an ex husband and AO staff watching her responses closely.

By comparison, when I "did" OT 3, I spent more time by the pool, going to the flickers, Disneyland, and listening to the radio while writing up loads of hours of "sessions" I found it easier to falsify worksheets than openly say what crap I found OT 3 to be.

Call it chicken shit. Call it whatever you like. After awhile it gets old fibghting the prevalent tide. I tend to default to non confrontation.

Since you didn't get what you wanted out of "her", get what you expected out of her, do you really think this entitles you to trash "her" here with your suppositions? This after you attempted to trash Karen to her, and to me? God only knows who else? And now, as a justification for this back channel trashing of Karen you have done, you make the woman you called "her" look bad by posting unnecessary and unwarranted comments about "her"? Matters already discussed to death on this forum.....

Regarding that comment about Karen: That is a bunch of hogwash. YOU told me you wanted "her" story on Tony's blog, said you were working on it, connected to Tony, talking to Lawrence Wright's assistant... But the fact is, Tony had been in contact with "her" 6 months before.... because I asked him. He didn't even know who you were. Karen wasn't even mentioned by Tony.

I don't know what your game is but it's it's not a healthy one.
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Since you didn't get what you wanted out of "her", get what you expected out of her, do you really think this entitles you to trash "her" here with your suppositions? This after you attempted to trash Karen to her, and to me? God only knows who else? And now, as a justification for this back channel trashing of Karen you have done, you make the woman you called "her" look bad by posting unnecessary and unwarranted comments about "her"? Matters already discussed to death on this forum.....

Regarding that comment about Karen: That is a bunch of hogwash. YOU told me you wanted "her" story on Tony's blog, said you were working on it, connected to Tony, talking to Lawrence Wright's assistant... But the fact is, Tony had been in contact with "her" 6 months before.... because I asked him. He didn't even know who you were. Karen wasn't even mentioned by Tony.

I don't know what your game is but it's it's not a healthy one.


Anonymary ~ Thank you.:rose:
But Carmelo could not possibly be talking about me.
It must be another "Karen"

QUOTE:

On a previous new person to ESMB, where I had known her at ASHO, and she was now accusing a former C/S known for his E Type and Buntline Special of repeated rapes. Other parts of her story seemed to be false ( degrees, schooling), at least heavily unbelieved by the ESMB posters. I contacted her, reintroduced myself. She remembered me. i told her she needed to consult an attorney if she was going to make strong accusations such as rape concerning a living person in public forums, having never reported it to the cops.. .Karen wanted to have her story in the Village Voice. I wanted her to have some legal umbrella before she got herself in hot water.


]Carmelo is not referring to me at all.
0) I was never part of ASHO and Carmelo met me for the first time on ESMB no previous Org ever.
1) I have never been raped, leave alone repeated rapes.
2) I never wanted rape stories in Village Voice.
3) I friended Tony O and Larry Wright LONG LONG LONG before Carmelo and certainly would not need any "legal umbrella" from, Carmelo for any move I make ! :love8:

(Karen is a relatively common name.)
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hey everybody! Glad to be on this site with all of you. I'll look forward to making some new friends here and sharing my story about being fleeced by a WISE group as well as the CoS!

Welcome Jonnyblade :welcome:; a lot of us sheep had our fleece removed as well. :eyeroll:
LTG
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Can we just let this thread be for welcoming Jonny again now ... theres no need for accusations of evil doing and 'third party' (let's leave that for any paranoid scientologists that want to indulge themselves). I don't believe for a single moment that Carmelo did or said anything with malicious intent and from what I can gather Jonny doesn't see it that way either, and his opinion is the only one that matters on this.

:yes:
 
Anonymary ~ Thank you.:rose:
But Carmelo could not possibly be talking about me.
It must be another "Karen"

QUOTE:

On a previous new person to ESMB, where I had known her at ASHO, and she was now accusing a former C/S known for his E Type and Buntline Special of repeated rapes. Other parts of her story seemed to be false ( degrees, schooling), at least heavily unbelieved by the ESMB posters. I contacted her, reintroduced myself. She remembered me. i told her she needed to consult an attorney if she was going to make strong accusations such as rape concerning a living person in public forums, having never reported it to the cops.. .Karen wanted to have her story in the Village Voice. I wanted her to have some legal umbrella before she got herself in hot water.

]Carmelo is not referring to me at all.
0) I was never part of ASHO and Carmelo met me for the first time on ESMB no previous Org ever.
1) I have never been raped, leave alone repeated rapes.
2) I never wanted rape stories in Village Voice.
3) I friended Tony O and Larry Wright LONG LONG LONG before Carmelo and certainly would not need any "legal umbrella" from, Carmelo for any move I make ! :love8:

(Karen is a relatively common name.)

I've created a huge clusterfuck here. I apologize to one and all. With thaI take my leave fromm this thread, having only demonstrated my abilityy to put both of my feet in my mouth.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

Welcome aboard, jonnyblade.

A question, if I may: would you say chiropractors are a particularly vulnerable group when it comes to the predations of Scientology?

I don't know what its like in the US, but here in New Zealand, chiropractic is out of the mainstream, its kinda viewed as similar to, say, accupuncture or irridology. To its credit and benefit, the teaching of chiropractic has gained official sanction and there are formal procedures and wog-style ethical requirements before a person can put out their shingle. And they've had to fight hard to get as far as they have. Local chiropractors have had their wings clipped a few times for false advertising (promoting unfounded health benefits) and holding themselves out as doctors and so on. Generally speaking, they are seen as well meaning, yet maverick. This situation seems to me an ideal scenario for Scientology to exploit, coming as it does from the mythological aspect of "vested interests" being opposed to its aims. Your thoughts??

Don't get me wrong here. I don't have an axe to grind with chiropractic. My wife swears by it. She grew very tall very young, 6 foot by the time she was 12. Her muscles didn't quite keep pace with the skeletal development which resulted in her having a dodgy back pretty much since her late teens. Things were okay-ish until she turned 35 not so long ago. The turning point seems to have been a particularly frantic game of beach-cricket/bullrush which left her bed ridden for a week. She tried all sorts of things - including accupuncture - but swears that the only thing that brings lasting relief and can fix an acute episode is her regular (and occasional emergency) visits to her chiropractor. He's a relatively senior-in-the-field chap and, as it turns out, has been on the local Scientology mailing list for years. Of course, MrsBLiP (that's my wife) has made a point of inoculating him and there is a "You Found The Card" on his waiting-room noticeboard ; )

648141_370.jpg
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Anonymary ~ Thank you.:rose:
But Carmelo could not possibly be talking about me.
It must be another "Karen"

QUOTE:

On a previous new person to ESMB, where I had known her at ASHO, and she was now accusing a former C/S known for his E Type and Buntline Special of repeated rapes. Other parts of her story seemed to be false ( degrees, schooling), at least heavily unbelieved by the ESMB posters. I contacted her, reintroduced myself. She remembered me. i told her she needed to consult an attorney if she was going to make strong accusations such as rape concerning a living person in public forums, having never reported it to the cops.. .Karen wanted to have her story in the Village Voice. I wanted her to have some legal umbrella before she got herself in hot water.


]Carmelo is not referring to me at all.
0) I was never part of ASHO and Carmelo met me for the first time on ESMB no previous Org ever.
1) I have never been raped, leave alone repeated rapes.
2) I never wanted rape stories in Village Voice.
3) I friended Tony O and Larry Wright LONG LONG LONG before Carmelo and certainly would not need any "legal umbrella" from, Carmelo for any move I make ! :love8:

(Karen is a relatively common name.)

Karen, you misunderstood what I wrote. The above '"her" is not you. It's someone you were in contact with that you were helping. Someone Carmelo was telling not to trust you because 'Karen has an agenda'. Carmelo was trying to get "her", by back channel trashing, to get "her" to let him handle her story. To sever your friendship with "her". Here is another of several examples:

I heard from Karen, she wants me to butt out. I'm not going to. If Karen throws her into the shark tank, and says "not my problem" then I'll manage her just a little better than that. She needs some hand holding, not attitude.

She needs someone who cares more about her than advancing an agenda on little Davey.

I can forward you the PMs but here is the gist of my reply to Carmelo:

[..]
Carmelo, I am going to say something that you may not like. xxxxxx has been in contact with Karen for months. I don't agree with you on your comments about Karen. Not at all. Only you and she know her reasons, if she indeed did write that, for asking you to butt out. It amazes me that you would even have a beef with her. She may be an 'independent' but she's an independent independent. She states it like she sees it. I like her very much and am offended by the implications you have made about her.

And why do you keep bringing up XXXXXXXXXXXXXX ( without mentioning you are mentioning his name?) How did you come to these assumptions that he has anything to do with this. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Karen has been there for her. You didn't even know her name last we PM'd. Karen has been in contact with her for months. So have others. She doesn't even know you. Your offer for friendship, while attacking the credibility of people she trusts is suspect. Your comments to me suggesting XXXXXXXXXX is or will be involved in any of this is questionable. Why in the world would you be bringing him and these comments up to me? Are you fishing for information or something, or just name dropping again. I see you take great pride in knowing the people you know and talking about the events of your life that include them but these comments about Karen & XXXXXXXXXXX take the cake.

It seems that Roger B and I have been subjected to this baloney about YOU and this is why I responded to Roger B's comment as I did, in this thread.
 

rickybobby

Hostess of the Internet
Let me add my welcome, as well, Jonnyblade, and my congratulations, as well. I think you will be very happy about your decision to come out into the light.


Rb
 
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