were our thetans blown up during Incident II?

[Mark Cab]

Only those thetans who were captured on other planets and transported to Earth were blown up and turned into BTs.

Those who weren't transported, or who were already on Earth (like myself) weren't.

And if Big Thetans weren't transported and implanted, why did we need to do OT 2? I guess it's because while we don't have OT 2 as part of our own case, it's part of our BT's case, and we are really auditing them, not ourselves.

(That's the thing about OT. While a clear no longer has a reactive mind, ze is still at the effect of the reactive minds of others. That's why a Clear needs further processing.)

Helena

Thanks Helena. This was one of the few helpful and insightful answers on this thread.

It’s interesting that on OTII, preOTs are running BTs without realizing it. This sort of thing exists all along the bridge, including the very beginning. In the NOTs materials, Hubbard explained that even during the purification RD, PCs will blow BTs attached to Drug Incidents.

Mark

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Thanks Helena. This was one of the few helpful and insightful answers on this thread.

It’s interesting that on OTII, preOTs are running BTs without realizing it. This sort of thing exists all along the bridge, including the very beginning. In the NOTs materials, Hubbard explained that even during the purification RD, PCs will blow BTs attached to Drug Incidents.

.

It's true that "...on OT II, preOTs are running BTs without realizing it".

Yes, they didn't realize "it".

If "it" is the fact that they have been hoaxed into delusionally believing they are running BTs.

That's what Scientologists are doing "without realizing it".

Sorry for the spoiler alert. Better now than later.

You'll declare/disconnect me now, but later you'll thank me and award me a jumbo medal of freedom. Trust me.

 

[ThetanExterior]

Thanks Helena. This was one of the few helpful and insightful answers on this thread.

It’s interesting that on OTII, preOTs are running BTs without realizing it. This sort of thing exists all along the bridge, including the very beginning. In the NOTs materials, Hubbard explained that even during the purification RD, PCs will blow BTs attached to Drug Incidents.

Mark

Helena is one of the very few people on this board who hasn't realised yet that Hubbard went nuts and that is where his OT levels came from - his deluded mind. That is why she is the only one who is engaging in a sensible discussion with you.

If you are going to imply that you and she are the only sane people around here then you won't last long on this board I suspect.

 

[Dotey OT]

I was driving and just passed a couple of BTs on a street corner with a cardboard sign saying "will cluster for food." I didn't stop.

 

[Wilbur]

Well, haha, at the risk of sounding like a Hubbard apologist, I will engage with the OPs questions on the terms on which he stated them.

IIRC, Hubbard never actually said in OT III that BODIES were transported to earth. If I'm wrong, then no doubt someone who can be bothered to look at the OT III materials will correct me, but what I recall is that people were in bodies on the other planets, were injected in the lung with, what was it, glycol? which allowed the thetan to be trapped in an ice cube and transported to Earth (he doesn't explain how it is possible for billions of ice cubes to be transported like that, but that's just a minor detail and would interrupt the flow of Ron-the-writer's story). So my understanding was that it was THETANS that were blown up around the mountains on Earth, not bodies.

In one lecture, Hubbard stated that he himself wasn't "R6'd" (the audience didn't seem sufficiently impressed, so he repeated it again emphatically, and you can almost feel him looking at the audience waiting for them to catch up with how impressive that makes him). And yet he still apparently had to penetrate the "wall of fire" (OTIII) himself, so presumably somehow thetans that were not caught up in the Xenu implants ended up in control of bodies that somehow are infested with BTs. Again, Hubbard doesn't explain how a newly-born body in the 20th century is born with R6-hypnotised BTs attached to it. You would have to embellish the plot to explain that. Perhaps it is the GE that brings the BTs with it into the body. I think Ron was probably busy sketching out the plot for another novel whilst writing up his ground-breaking research from OTIII, which is why he didn't have the energy to write up the whole plot. But don't worry, we have it all taped now, even the 36-day implant sequence of pictures has been obtained by Ron, though those details are not needed to run out OTIII, fortunately.

Fortunately, Alan worked out a solution for that, in his Route 66 procedure, which improves upon Hubbard's rendition of....oh, wait, I momentarily flipped into the valence of another frequenter of this board. Sorry. Who's Alan? Anyway, discussing OTIII can do that to a person: the charge on the incidents is so heavy that it can flip one out of valence, which, of course, is what an SP is, after all: out-of-valence in R6.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Only those thetans who were captured on other planets and transported to Earth were blown up and turned into BTs.

Those who weren't transported, or who were already on Earth (like myself) weren't.

And if Big Thetans weren't transported and implanted, why did we need to do OT 2? I guess it's because while we don't have OT 2 as part of our own case, it's part of our BT's case, and we are really auditing them, not ourselves.

(That's the thing about OT. While a clear no longer has a reactive mind, ze is still at the effect of the reactive minds of others. That's why a Clear needs further processing.)

Helena

 

[George Layton]

This is an insanely specific tech question so any help is appreciated.

Were our thetans blown up during Incident II? A common summary of OTIII is we control bodies infested with the thetans who were implanted by Xenu. This summary assumes our thetans were not involved with this mass implantation but the Clearing Course materials directly contradict this.

Hubbard specifically stated the Clearing Course implants were given during Incident II. Clearing Course is supposed to address the GPMs at the core of the reactive mind. If that’s the case, our reactive banks have engrams from Xenu and thus, we were those implanted thetans.

An explanation could be, CC addresses the OT Bank (the collection BT banks) to reduce charge on the PC.

What are your thoughts?

The first word in the third paragraph explains it all.

 

[Veda]

Thanks Helena. This was one of the few helpful and insightful answers on this thread.

It’s interesting that on OTII, preOTs are running BTs without realizing it. This sort of thing exists all along the bridge, including the very beginning. In the NOTs materials, Hubbard explained that even during the purification RD, PCs will blow BTs attached to Drug Incidents.

Mark

It's been a while since I've looked at these materials, but I do recall that there was a period before 1967 OT 3, and after 1965 Clearing Course, when OT 2 was described as "another bank."

Hubbard had become annoyed with "First real Clear" John McMaster receiving such a high degree of approval from both Scientologists and the "wog world," and the appearance of "another bank" made John McMaster's status ever so slightly less significant. Hubbard would later issue his own Clear certificate with a date that preceded McMaster's and, ultimately, McMaster would be Declared an SP.

OT 2 has many similarities with the Clearing Course, and if it had been called Clearing Course part 2, I doubt if anyone would have (dared) to have objected.

There were no BTs in Scientology, and Hubbard had explained during a mid 1950s lecture (I think 1957), that there were not other thetans in the body.

People who were preoccupied with "other thetans in the body," and that it was a problem, were regarded as in very bad shape, later called PTS type 3, that is until 1967, when Hubbard decided there were other thetans in the body and that it was a problem, at which point, Scientologists en masse changed their minds, much as they would do ten years later when Hubbard announced Dianetic Clear, and, around the same time, with NOTs.

That's when I first began to notice the hypnotic (like) influence that Hubbard had over (most) Scientologists.

While I still liked the "tech," I could no longer deny that Hubbard was doing something else, something I didn't quite understand at the time.

 

[Wilbur]

It's been a while since I've looked at these materials, but I do recall that there was a period before 1967 OT 3, and after 1965 Clearing Course, when OT 2 was described as "another bank."

Hubbard had become annoyed with "First real Clear" John McMaster receiving such a high degree of approval from both Scientologists and the "wog world," and the appearance of "another bank" made John McMaster's status ever so slightly less significant. Hubbard would later issue his own Clear certificate with a date that preceded McMaster's and, ultimately, McMaster would be Declared an SP.

OT 2 has many similarities with the Clearing Course, and if it had been called Clearing Course part 2, I doubt if anyone would have (dared) to have objected.

There were no BTs in Scientology, and Hubbard had explained during a mid 1950s lecture (I think 1957), that there were not other thetans in the body.

People who were preoccupied with "other thetans in the body," and that it was a problem, were regarded as in very bad shape, later called PTS type 3, that is until 1967, when Hubbard decided there were other thetans in the body and that it was a problem, at which point, Scientologists en masse changed their minds, much as they would do ten years later when Hubbard announced Dianetic Clear, and, around the same time, with NOTs.

That's when I first began to notice the hypnotic (like) influence that Hubbard had over (most) Scientologists.

While I still liked the "tech," I could no longer deny that Hubbard was doing something else, something I didn't quite understand at the time.

I recall that Hubbard, in OTIII, explained the OTII implants as being part of the R6 (I.e. OTIII incident II) implant, along with the Clearing Course implant. The dates in the implants themselves were just implanted dates, and the whole of the CC and OTII were supposed to occur just before (or was it just after) the 36 days of pictures in Incident II, 75 million years ago. I don't think he thought that through very carefully, as it begs as many questions as it answers, as a denouement of the Scientology plot. For example, if OTII is just a continuation of the CC, then why is it that a person who has the Clear cognition on NED doesn't then have to do the Clearing Course, but still has to do OTII? And why is a CC completion, on the 'alternative route to Clear', considered Clear after completing the CC, but BEFORE completing OTII?

Even for a believer, trying to figure out what all the above means, they must be struck by the fact that it is not entirely coherent.

 

[strativarius]

I recall that Hubbard, in OTIII, explained the OTII implants as being part of the R6 (I.e. OTIII incident II) implant, along with the Clearing Course implant. The dates in the implants themselves were just implanted dates, and the whole of the CC and OTII were supposed to occur just before (or was it just after) the 36 days of pictures in Incident II, 75 million years ago. I don't think he thought that through very carefully, as it begs as many questions as it answers, as a denouement of the Scientology plot. For example, if OTII is just a continuation of the CC, then why is it that a person who has the Clear cognition on NED doesn't then have to do the Clearing Course, but still has to do OTII? And why is a CC completion, on the 'alternative route to Clear', considered Clear after completing the CC, but BEFORE completing OTII?

Even for a believer, trying to figure out what all the above means, they must be struck by the fact that it is not entirely coherent.

Very little of this stuff IS coherent. That's why it is so astounding that people bought it in such great numbers. The video aboard the (I think it was but could be wrong) Royal Scotman where he lays out the OTIII narrative sounds to me like he is just making it up as he goes along, so it's little wonder there are glaring inconsistencies all the way through.

It's simply a crock of shit and a huge joke, one that had Hubbard laughing all the way to the bank - no pun intended.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Well Wilbur, clearly some word-clearing is required for you to clear up your MUs about Clear that for you seem to be quite unclear. Report to Qual immediately - the I & I will invoice you and get your clay warmed up.

 

[F.Bullbait]

Soooo....the upper levels are an implant?

Nice touch.

An authoritarian implant about implants and BTs.

First you are subjected to countless hours of lecture and auditing glycol and then given the ultimate implant.

You are then in a trap of endless repairs and actions.

 

[guanoloco]

It's been a while since I've looked at these materials, but I do recall that there was a period before 1967 OT 3, and after 1965 Clearing Course, when OT 2 was described as "another bank."

Hubbard had become annoyed with "First real Clear" John McMaster receiving such a high degree of approval from both Scientologists and the "wog world," and the appearance of "another bank" made John McMaster's status ever so slightly less significant. Hubbard would later issue his own Clear certificate with a date that preceded McMaster's and, ultimately, McMaster would be Declared an SP.

OT 2 has many similarities with the Clearing Course, and if it had been called Clearing Course part 2, I doubt if anyone would have (dared) to have objected.

There were no BTs in Scientology, and Hubbard had explained during a mid 1950s lecture (I think 1957), that there were not other thetans in the body.

People who were preoccupied with "other thetans in the body," and that it was a problem, were regarded as in very bad shape, later called PTS type 3, that is until 1967, when Hubbard decided there were other thetans in the body and that it was a problem, at which point, Scientologists en masse changed their minds, much as they would do ten years later when Hubbard announced Dianetic Clear, and, around the same time, with NOTs.

That's when I first began to notice the hypnotic (like) influence that Hubbard had over (most) Scientologists.

While I still liked the "tech," I could no longer deny that Hubbard was doing something else, something I didn't quite understand at the time.

Veda, when did Hubbard issue his own Clear cert? Also, where is there a copy? Does it have a number?

 

[guanoloco]

I recall that Hubbard, in OTIII, explained the OTII implants as being part of the R6 (I.e. OTIII incident II) implant, along with the Clearing Course implant. The dates in the implants themselves were just implanted dates, and the whole of the CC and OTII were supposed to occur just before (or was it just after) the 36 days of pictures in Incident II, 75 million years ago. I don't think he thought that through very carefully, as it begs as many questions as it answers, as a denouement of the Scientology plot. For example, if OTII is just a continuation of the CC, then why is it that a person who has the Clear cognition on NED doesn't then have to do the Clearing Course, but still has to do OTII? And why is a CC completion, on the 'alternative route to Clear', considered Clear after completing the CC, but BEFORE completing OTII?

Even for a believer, trying to figure out what all the above means, they must be struck by the fact that it is not entirely coherent.

The most incoherent thing is that the basic philosophy is to go earlier on the chain to basic-basic and blow that. Everything else is tied to that. You only come later on the track to unburden it so as to go back into the deep dive.

75 millions years ago is an incident on the chain severely removed from basic-basic. It's like a lock or something and it's the end all and be all of Scientology processing.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Veda, when did Hubbard issue his own Clear cert? Also, where is there a copy? Does it have a number?

Of course Hub's clear number is Clear 0.

Given his penchant for starting list of things with zero he of course would be clear zero.

 

[EZ Linus]

I often try to appreciate where a person is coming from, just so that I can connect and have a reasonable conversation with them. But, sometimes when there is no point--like when going over the hypothetical for XX purpose and I don't know what XX is, where is the purpose? Please tell me that and maybe someone can actually engage this question.

...but there I go again...maybe I'm too fricken nice?

Of course the data contradicts itself! Flubbard made it up as he went along while writing the OT levels, and because of the EP of 8, all of it doesn't even matter. To indulge you, there were never bodies. Only "thetans." Zemoo implanted thetans, not physical people (which is why he got away with everything he said because it couldn't be "dis-proven"). As far as I knew, BTs were an implant, therefore didn't actually exist as MEST and were only a consideration of the thetan as part of the implant. I can't believe I'm typing this! Ha ha ha! It's such a mess of bullshit.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Very little of this stuff IS coherent. That's why it is so astounding that people bought it in such great numbers. The video aboard the (I think it was but could be wrong ) Royal Scotman where he describes the OTIII narrative sounds to me like he is just making it up as he goes along, so it's little wonder there are glaring inconsistencies all the way through.

It's simply a crock of shit and a huge joke, one that had Hubbard laughing all the way to the bank - no pun intended.

Yep. I think the earlier half baked Targ as BT story proves he was making this up off the cuff. My interpretation is that he was mixing his belief in OTO non-corporeal beings with his Sci-Fi fantasy. His two favorite hobby horses. That he ordered Sarge to make an e-meter strong enough to kill him to get rid of the BTs indicates he believed in BTs but I'm not so sure he believed the whole fairy tale. If it was his delusion I think it was deliberately embellished for marketing purposes. That he personally believed in BTs would explain a lot about him and his treatment of other people. If he essentially perceived the rest of humanity as infested and degraded then he couldn't like or trust them could he? His reclusiveness could have been as much out of a fear of BT infested people as much as the IRS and FBI. So anyone who buys into this narrative is actually investing themselves in a belief system that encourages a deep seated contempt for humanity.

The problem with the Targ release was he didn't have sufficient control over the public to avoid criticism of inconsistencies and illogical logistics. By the time he released OT III he had created a hermetically sealed totalitarian environment on the ships and consequently felt unrestrained in the creation of logically flawed narratives.


LISTEN: Rare tape reveals how L. Ron Hubbard really came up with Scientology’s space cooties
///
But then, in our comments, J. Swift pointed out that there was something even better from 1952 that would make that point. He said it was a very rare recording, and had not been seen on the Internet since 2009. It had the unwieldy title, “Electropsychometric Scouting: Battles of the Universes.”
///
http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/17/ra...th-scientologys-space-cooties/comment-page-1/

 

[lotus]

Sis,

That would be nice of you to contain your very....very..."special" (don"t want to wrongly indicate here) unhandled bt's in your home.

If you need help please contact Ron's org!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Honestly Helena, I simply cannot get my head around the fact that you genuinely and sincerely still believe this garbage about BT's, implants and all the rest of it. There is NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE any of this is factual. I'm sorry, I love you to bits HH, but I believe you are deluded.

.

There is a "REMEDY" in the COS for PCs (who despite getting huge OT wins)
do not believe Scientology works. The command for the process is:
"WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT SCIENTOLOGY WORKS?"

There should be a "REMEDY" in the FZ for PCs (who despite getting no OT wins)
still believe Scientology works. The command for the process is:
"WHAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT SCIENTOLOGY DOESN'T WORK?" ​

.​

 

[Veda]

Veda, when did Hubbard issue his own Clear cert? Also, where is there a copy? Does it have a number?

During the late 1960s at St. Hill. Have no other information than that.