Were we stupid to join Scientology?

[Gib]

Where did you get the idea that I wasn't "part of dianetics"?
That would be a wrong idea.
I was very much into dn.
What I been sayin' is that dn morphed into scn very early on. Dn was great, and fun for those of us who could 'run' it. So many peeps couldn't find engrams.
!952 in Phoenix was about a rift between the dn'ists and this new subjec, scn.
Why, yes, I was into the Clear thing as depicted in dianetics".

I was referring to you and Roger.

I got in, in 1986 thanks to the marketing campaign on TV by Jefferson Hawkins promoting Dianetics. I don't know if you have seen those constant ad's?

But I got Dianetics as a result of those ads, and read it, and although I didn't believe it, I'd thought I'd give it a try since in the book dianetics I got at the time, 1986, had a cutout piece that said come in for a free auditing session, which I did, hopeing after a few hundred hours why I would "clear" as per the book.

Turns out, after about 200 hours of dianetics auditing, why I too never contacted an "engram", but was sold on doing scientology. My initial reaction to scientology was

what the hell are you talking about, a religion, a what, I only want to go clear, I'm not interested in religion, I just want the attributes of clear or perfect memory, great recall, immune to illness, etc.

That's the same rift on the bridge you experienced and me only later. Hubbard even wrote or talked about it, calling it the "ridge on the bridge".

I was persuaded to continue starting with the Purif.

 

[Gib]

I was referring to you and Roger.

I got in, in 1986 thanks to the marketing campaign on TV by Jefferson Hawkins promoting Dianetics. I don't know if you have seen those constant ad's?

But I got Dianetics as a result of those ads, and read it, and although I didn't believe it, I'd thought I'd give it a try since in the book dianetics I got at the time, 1986, had a cutout piece that said come in for a free auditing session, which I did, hopeing after a few hundred hours why I would "clear" as per the book.

Turns out, after about 200 hours of dianetics auditing, why I too never contacted an "engram", but was sold on doing scientology. My initial reaction to scientology was

what the hell are you talking about, a religion, a what, I only want to go clear, I'm not interested in religion, I just want the attributes of clear or perfect memory, great recall, immune to illness, etc.

That's the same rift on the bridge you experienced and me only later. Hubbard even wrote or talked about it, calling it the "ridge on the bridge".

I was persuaded to continue starting with the Purif.

responding to myself.

If we look at the Bridge to Total Freedom Chart, why at the bottom was me, the purif as a route onto the bridge, the ridge on the bridge, little did I know at the time, why I was persuaded the whole time to continue, and even persuaded in Dianetics.

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I was referring to you and Roger.

I got in, in 1986 thanks to the marketing campaign on TV by Jefferson Hawkins promoting Dianetics. I don't know if you have seen those constant ad's?

But I got Dianetics as a result of those ads, and read it, and although I didn't believe it, I'd thought I'd give it a try since in the book dianetics I got at the time, 1986, had a cutout piece that said come in for a free auditing session, which I did, hopeing after a few hundred hours why I would "clear" as per the book.

Turns out, after about 200 hours of dianetics auditing, why I too never contacted an "engram", but was sold on doing scientology. My initial reaction to scientology was

what the hell are you talking about, a religion, a what, I only want to go clear, I'm not interested in religion, I just want the attributes of clear or perfect memory, great recall, immune to illness, etc.

That's the same rift on the bridge you experienced and me only later. Hubbard even wrote or talked about it, calling it the "ridge on the bridge".

I was persuaded to continue starting with the Purif.

Interesting account Gibsie...

Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone.

Some contact engrams easily. You didn't but you seem bright enough that you might have. With better auditing and probably a better auditing environment than your local church provided. When I was at FCDC it was one of the best ever orgs and it still had GROSS outnesses to tech which took me years to figure out. And yes, I can name some specfics.

 

[Gib]

Interesting account Gibsie...

Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone.

Some contact engrams easily. You didn't but you seem bright enough that you might have. With better auditing and probably a better auditing environment than your local church provided. When I was at FCDC it was one of the best ever orgs and it still had GROSS outnesses to tech which took me years to figure out. And yes, I can name some specfics.

well that's bullshit:

"Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone."

That statement is not per the original bullshit artist known as Hubbard. He wanted everybody on board, and those who didn't want to be on board, why he named, or labeled them PTS or SP, LOL.

More bullshit.

As far as the rest of your post, well more bullshit. LOL

 

[programmer_guy]

Interesting account Gibsie...

Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone.

Some contact engrams easily. You didn't but you seem bright enough that you might have. With better auditing and probably a better auditing environment than your local church provided. When I was at FCDC it was one of the best ever orgs and it still had GROSS outnesses to tech which took me years to figure out. And yes, I can name some specfics.

Engrams as defined by Hubbard?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

 

[phenomanon]

I was referring to you and Roger.

I got in, in 1986 thanks to the marketing campaign on TV by Jefferson Hawkins promoting Dianetics. I don't know if you have seen those constant ad's?

But I got Dianetics as a result of those ads, and read it, and although I didn't believe it, I'd thought I'd give it a try since in the book dianetics I got at the time, 1986, had a cutout piece that said come in for a free auditing session, which I did, hopeing after a few hundred hours why I would "clear" as per the book.

Turns out, after about 200 hours of dianetics auditing, why I too never contacted an "engram", but was sold on doing scientology. My initial reaction to scientology was

what the hell are you talking about, a religion, a what, I only want to go clear, I'm not interested in religion, I just want the attributes of clear or perfect memory, great recall, immune to illness, etc.

That's the same rift on the bridge you experienced and me only later. Hubbard even wrote or talked about it, calling it the "ridge on the bridge".

I was persuaded to continue starting with the Purif.

The"ridge on the bridge" was Power.
I didn't experience a rift. I always liked dn as much as scn. I trained on 'em both. Delivered 'em both.
That's not to say that there wasn't a big 'rift'. Dn'ists didn't want a Religion. Most felt that they already had a Religion.
I didn't care one way or another. BUt that was just me. I had other interests. The little Field groups wanted to discuss the subjects and so forth.
Whatever.
I can't even imagine anyone receiving 200 hours of Dn auditing. lol. What a grind that must've been.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Gib,

Phenom posted the note earlier in this thread the point that we all, and indeed all people, are influenced by the times in which they live. And this fact of life was very much the case for we oldies up and about and kicking in the '50's.

The whole talk of society in those days was on issues of psychology and interest in one's "mental health" and looking into the alternatives to mainstream life such as Rosicrucianism, Anthroposiphy, Yoga . . . and Alan Walter's bible of his youth, Émile Coué with his book "Self Hypnosis," Theosophy , Napoleon Hill and all those self help gurus like him . . . . you name it, it was all what pop culture was about in those days.

In the mid-'60's The Beatles taught us a little bit of weed and trooping off to India to find a guru was a good idea

I was just watching a biography on Cary Grant called "Becoming Cary Grant", of course, and at the beginning of the film he is quoted as saying about the era when he grew up "It was a time when people were attempting to find something inside of themselves that they felt they lacked".
He chose different paths such as yoga, hypnotism and mysticism before turning to LSD under they guidance of a doctor to go back into his past and sort out the troubles that haunted him. Quite a film so far.
That sentiment of his times definitely extended into the 60's, when I grew up, and I too went looking for the right path, found the wrong one, got lost upon it and the rest is history for me.

 

[phenomanon]

Interesting account Gibsie...

Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone.

Some contact engrams easily. You didn't but you seem bright enough that you might have. With better auditing and probably a better auditing environment than your local church provided. When I was at FCDC it was one of the best ever orgs and it still had GROSS outnesses to tech which took me years to figure out. And yes, I can name some specfics.

It was at FCDC that lrh refused to take my listing item.
Marilyn Routsong was the registrar. Did you know her? Ann Sherman? Nibs?
Bob Oakes? Al Kozak? Burke Belknap? Bobby Sutton?

 

[phenomanon]

I was just watching a biography on Cary Grant called "Becoming Cary Grant", of course, and at the beginning of the film he is quoted as saying about the era when he grew up "It was a time when people were attempting to find something inside of themselves that they felt they lacked".
He chose different paths such as yoga, hypnotism and mysticism before turning to LSD under they guidance of a doctor to go back into his past and sort out the troubles that haunted him. Quite a film so far.
That sentiment of his times definitely extended into the 60's, when I grew up, and I too went looking for the right path, found the wrong one, got lost upon it and the rest is history for me.

I explored every one of those subjects, as well as others during the years that I was involved with scn. Believe it or not, some of us were not Robots.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Believe it or not, some of us were not Robots.

I know it! A lot of variability in what being "in" was all about, especially among public.
Then there are the "immersion Scientologists" who lived and breathed nothing but, most often they were on staff especially Sea Org.
Though, as I've seen in so many posts, just because someone was on staff and "seemed" to buy it all hook, line & sinker didn't mean they didn't develop serious reservations regarding what they saw or retain outside interests.
Sometimes it takes being out for a while for some to feel comfortable enough to admit that they really did "know" to a much larger extent than they ever let on while in.

 

[DagwoodGum]

responding to myself.

If we look at the Bridge to Total Freedom Chart, why at the bottom was me, the purif as a route onto the bridge, the ridge on the bridge, little did I know at the time, why I was persuaded the whole time to continue, and even persuaded in Dianetics.

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

After listening to a bunch of his old taped lectures on engrams & ridges in the course room in 1973 I had an idea for a process that actually worked and changed my case tremendously as in having a series of mental structure crash, boom, bangs that left me blown out pretty much permanently.
I ran "what would you ridge against?" off the meter alternately with "what would you NOT ridge against?"
I felt as though what had been the walls around my mind had blown out and none of the HGC auditing I had after that did 1/10 of what just a few hours of that process did.
Hubbard was an idea man but beyond that he had no place as a religious icon and was just as likely to lie to you as give you a nugget of truth you could run with.
However, that was one occasion where he did.
Guess I earned me super squirrel cape with such capers.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

It was at FCDC that lrh refused to take my listing item.
Marilyn Routsong was the registrar. Did you know her? Ann Sherman? Nibs?
Bob Oakes? Al Kozak? Burke Belknap? Bobby Sutton?

They were either gone or in the background by my time though a couple names sound vaguely familiar.

I did know (and audit) some FCDC regulars left over from LRH's era

I won't mention names, of course, but in retrospect of decades I see in the reflection of the memories of the far more innocent young man I was evidence of some of them being, well, entranced sheep. I'm inclined to give some credence to the charge against Hubbard that he abused his ability as a hypnotist.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

well that's bullshit:

"Dn & Scn can be for anyone but never was and never will be for everyone."

That statement is not per the original bullshit artist known as Hubbard. He wanted everybody on board, and those who didn't want to be on board, why he named, or labeled them PTS or SP, LOL.

More bullshit.

As far as the rest of your post, well more bullshit. LOL

Yes...

I know "anyone not everyone" is not per LRH.

It is per WOB.

And your particular rhetorical technique in this post makes for a weak polemic in the hearts and minds of the more gracious and intelligent portion of our audience.

 

[Gib]

The"ridge on the bridge" was Power.
I didn't experience a rift. I always liked dn as much as scn. I trained on 'em both. Delivered 'em both.
That's not to say that there wasn't a big 'rift'. Dn'ists didn't want a Religion. Most felt that they already had a Religion.
I didn't care one way or another. BUt that was just me. I had other interests. The little Field groups wanted to discuss the subjects and so forth.
Whatever.
I can't even imagine anyone receiving 200 hours of Dn auditing. lol. What a grind that must've been.

yes it was a grind, but to think of it, wasn't all auditing, dianetics or scientology, a grind to have a cognition?

 

[Gib]

After listening to a bunch of his old taped lectures on engrams & ridges in the course room in 1973 I had an idea for a process that actually worked and changed my case tremendously as in having a series of mental structure crash, boom, bangs that left me blown out pretty much permanently.
I ran "what would you ridge against?" off the meter alternately with "what would you NOT ridge against?"
I felt as though what had been the walls around my mind had blown out and none of the HGC auditing I had after that did 1/10 of what just a few hours of that process did.
Hubbard was an idea man but beyond that he had no place as a religious icon and was just as likely to lie to you as give you a nugget of truth you could run with.
However, that was one occasion where he did.
Guess I earned me super squirrel cape with such capers.

I wasn't talking about the make believe ridges in the mind per the PDC's.

There is a actual policy letter about the Ridge on the Bridge, and that is the conversion from somebody wanting to to go clear thru Dianetics, but then gets introduced to Scientology, a ridge on the bridge, to total freedom.

 

[Gib]

Yes...

I know "anyone not everyone" is not per LRH.

It is per WOB.

And your particular rhetorical technique in this post makes for a weak polemic in the hearts and minds of the more gracious and intelligent portion of our audience.

don't know what WOB means?

I'm not trying to use rhetoric, but explain how Hubbard used rhetoric.

Your poetry goes over my head, I'd wish you use simple language.

 

[DagwoodGum]

I wasn't talking about the make believe ridges in the mind per the PDC's.

So you think that everything is make believe just because you heard it out of Hubbard's mouth?
Don't you see you've fallen into just another trap? He was just a parrot for other peoples perspectives.
Whether Hubbard commented on something doesn't make it untrue, that would be too easy.
You don't get to have it that easy getting out of Scientology.
You throw out every baby with every drop of bathwater and you shrivel up into a filthy little clump of nothing with zero perspective other than "everything I learned before is wrong". Then you just exchange your Rondroid badge for a Wrongdroid badge.
What is just is, nothing about Hubbard matters in the final analysis.
I just looked at "ridges" as conglomerations of stuck, mental garbage, which would be the perspective of many therapists out of Scientology, and used a form of effort processing to get it all to blow. I considered "ridging against it" just a form of mental resistance that wasn't working for me, but making it all stick to me. The endeavor worked for me at the time, what can I say?
I always specialized in robbing the traps and that hasn't changed just because I'm out of that fukked up cult.

 

[DagwoodGum]

I'm not trying to use rhetoric, but explain how Hubbard used rhetoric.

What you mean as rhetoric most people know as "bullshitting people".
It's merely the skilled use of language for the sake of influence.
To say that is not so much illuminating as redundant.
Of course Hubbard was full of shit and was using his considerable skill as an author to unduly influence us with lies and innuendo, not to mention reams of fabricated "case histories".
I just call it bullshitting us, audacious though it was.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

don't know what WOB means?

I'm not trying to use rhetoric, but explain how Hubbard used rhetoric.

Your poetry goes over my head, I'd wish you use simple language.

My initials:

William Otho Birdwood.

Well now...

You do use rhetoric, as do I and we should both try to keep it real

Again, thank you for the Dean Wilbur material; a most valuable contribution to the conversation.

Let the poetry go under your head and see what your heart can do with it

 

[sohail]

No, we were just at a tough spot in life and were vulnerable. And those notorious pshyopaths knew how to manipulate us.