What are Scientology's costs to society?

[Churchill]

The costs are immeasurable in terms of the financial & familial destruction, but even greater is the lasting personal damage that Scientology causes.

Scientology. like the Mafia, is only concerned with its own insatiable needs.

The sooner that American society realizes that Scientology is the polar opposite of religion, the better off we will all be.

If one puts a crucifix on the door to a whorehouse, that doesn't make it a Church.

It's a lousy analogy, I know.

A whorehouse delivers what it promises.

Scientology delivers toxicity, delusion, and dysfunctionality. Other than that, it's swell.

 

[David C Gibbons]

Thanks to all for your kind and thoughtful comments on the thread.

I mentioned 'religious cloaking'. I just thought of the other element in the mix, which is 'corporate cloaking'. Scientology uses the ploy of incorporation to avoid responsibility also. Scientology hides behind the corporate shells Hubbard and his successor(s) erected to avoid paying society back for the harm Scientology causes. "Sorry, we're a corporation, no-one is responsible." As far as I can see, corporations are only responsible to gather money, and Scientology is following that game plan with all it's heart. Consequences to the society at large are not Scientology's concern.

Down with Scientology!

 

[Lord Xenu]

Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Tesla, Edison, et al, were all one person who made a difference in this world. So were many others who never found fame with their efforts, but still made a difference. Even Bill and Melinda Gates are very active in making a humanitarian difference as well presently.



With all respect, I think Mother Theresa is somebody who should be in the same category as LRH. Her idiotic devotion and her desire for people to suffer in her hospices so they could be 'accepted by Jesus' is deluded in a similar way. She preached austerity whilst traveling luxury class all over the world.

 

[The_Fixer]

From what i have heard, she was a ruthless manipulator as well. But we all come with our faults.

At least Mother Theresa was helping others to suffer with dignity rather than in a gutter.

Perhaps the first class travel was donated by some sponsors? I don't know.

I'm sure she would have found it difficult to explain herself for monies coming out of the charity's purse for that sort of thing.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

...If one puts a crucifix on the door to a whorehouse, that doesn't make it a Church...

I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread. There is actually a Scientology Org with a cross on the front that it operating as a whorehouse.

Not sure how this affects your argument. I think it still stands.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Tesla, Edison, et al, were all one person who made a difference in this world. So were many others who never found fame with their efforts, but still made a difference. Even Bill and Melinda Gates are very active in making a humanitarian difference as well presently.



With all respect, I think Mother Theresa is somebody who should be in the same category as LRH. Her idiotic devotion and her desire for people to suffer in her hospices so they could be 'accepted by Jesus' is deluded in a similar way. She preached austerity whilst traveling luxury class all over the world.

She also faught against contraceptive use in Haiti among other places as well as supporting the Duvalier family in Haiti among other evil regimes. The despotism and overpopulation that followed can in part be blamed on her.

Haiti is a haven for child traffickers for these two reasons. Mother Theresa is not to be revered by any thinking person.

 

[Churchill]

I think you may have posted this in the wrong thread. There is actually a Scientology Org with a cross on the front that it operating as a brothel.


Not sure how this affects your argument. I think it still stands.

I think you're right.

There is little, if any socially redeeming value to Scientology, or any of it's front groups,
because they all begin from a point of such fundamental dishonesty that it's impossible
for them to conclude at any worthwhile place, despite the altruistic motives of Scientologists.

The entire subject is hard-wired to produce a mindfuck, which brings us back to the
brothel comparison.

 

[Lord Xenu]

From what i have heard, she was a ruthless manipulator as well. But we all come with our faults.

At least Mother Theresa was helping others to suffer with dignity rather than in a gutter.

Perhaps the first class travel was donated by some sponsors? I don't know.

I'm sure she would have found it difficult to explain herself for monies coming out of the charity's purse for that sort of thing.

She did not have people 'suffer with dignity' she wanted them to suffer in pain and poverty.... maybe you should investigate the late Christopher Hitchen's exposures of her methods.

 

[Churchill]

She did not have people 'suffer with dignity' she wanted them to suffer in pain and poverty.... maybe you should investigate the late Christopher Hitchen's exposures of her methods.

off topic posts derail threads...unless by doing so you are manifesting yet another of Scientology's
costs to society.

The subject of Scientology's costs to society bears thoughtful reflection.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

off topic posts derail threads...unless by doing so you are manifesting yet another of Scientology's
costs to society.

The subject of Scientology's costs to society bears thoughtful reflection.

It may be off topic to the thread, but it is not off topic on this board.

Scientology has had an interest in the child trafficking haven of Haiti than Mother Theresa helped create.

 

[Churchill]

It may be off topic to the thread, but it is not off topic on this board.

Scientology has had an interest in the child trafficking haven of Haiti than Mother Theresa helped create.

What is the cost of Scientology's engaging of Human Trafficking to society?

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

What is the cost of Scientology's engaging of Human Trafficking to society?

How do you quantify what happened to Carol Miles? Holding someone captive for years.

On a societal level, the effect of Scientology is not great, but to those in, it can be half their lives.

 

[Lord Xenu]

off topic posts derail threads...unless by doing so you are manifesting yet another of Scientology's
costs to society.

The subject of Scientology's costs to society bears thoughtful reflection.

Well you are right, but in a broader sense it is all connected.

As I tried to point out, people doing the most ridiculous things because of their 'faith' is one of the things we are dealing with here. I have lost my family because of the scienos in it [I'm the survivor - the only one who has been in and then out] and I have long thought that LRH plundered not only various teachings from religions worldwide but he also used many of the tactics used by religious groups to keep the flock inline. The 'greedy Albanian dwarf' to quote Christopher Hitchens was very concerned about her own comfort and objectives and couldn't care less about the suffering of individuals whatever impression she gave, which is analogous to the behaviour of scifags. Now I promise I won't mention her again. Unless I'm severely provoked.

 

[Churchill]

Well you are right, but in a broader sense it is all connected.

As I tried to point out, people doing the most ridiculous things because of their 'faith' is one of the things we are dealing with here. I have lost my family because of the scienos in it [I'm the survivor - the only one who has been in and then out] and I have long thought that LRH plundered not only various teachings from religions worldwide but he also used many of the tactics used by religious groups to keep the flock inline. The 'greedy Albanian dwarf' to quote Christopher Hitchens was very concerned about her own comfort and objectives and couldn't care less about the suffering of individuals whatever impression she gave, which is analogous to the behaviour of scifags. Now I promise I won't mention her again. Unless I'm severely provoked.

I'm truly sorry that your family has disconnected from you. Scientology will someday be called to account for the broken families; the children who are forced to grow up with one parent missing...
such cruelty inflicted on the innocent surely deserves a special place in Hell.

Hopefully, your family will return to you someday, and sooner, rather than later.

My only point about derailing threads is I've noticed that it creates a dispersal of thought, whether innocently done, or deliberately when done by OSA.

You sure don't need my, or anyone's permission to start your own thread on any topic, though.
Here, unlike Scientology, youreally can communicate with anyone on any subject.

The irony is delicious, isn't it?

 

[David C Gibbons]

<SNIP>

You sure don't need my, or anyone's permission to start your own thread on any topic, though.
Here, unlike Scientology, youreally can communicate with anyone on any subject.

The irony is delicious, isn't it?

Churchill,

I must take gentle issue with your quote above. We can indeed communicate with many other people on many other topics, and topics concerning Scientology are much more freely discussed here and elsewhere than anywhere near Scientology's sphere of influence.

To begin with, I will note that I myself found out that the 'ARC triangle' just didn't always work in the real world, outside the hermetic world of Scientology.

Upon further consideration, there were lots of times the ARC triangle didn't work inside Scientology either, now that I think of it. There were many times where all the training and processing on 'communication' didn't make one bit of difference...like dealing with Sea Org 'missionares'.

Anyway, outside of Scientology, there are folks who just aren't interested in our perspectives. Like Scientologists, their heads are full of beliefs and propaganda, or their worldview is too different from ours, and anything that questions their grasp on those things will provoke angry responses. Heck, we've seen that on this board.

Now, to be fair, the ARC triangle and Scientology communication methods sometimes do work if one wants to insincerely manipulate people in a Scientology setting, (think Scientology registrars) but I have been finding since I have been out of Scientology that using these methods never deepens true human relationships. Perhaps part of the problem is the settings that Scientology communication methods are used in.

Perhaps also ordinary people sense that people using 'TR's' and 'ARC' are not truly communicating. Certainly my wife has to keep encouraging me to let my emotions out where she can see them, so she feels she is communicating with ME.

My 5 cents...

 

[Churchill]

Churchill,

I must take gentle issue with your quote above. We can indeed communicate with many other people on many other topics, and topics concerning Scientology are much more freely discussed here and elsewhere than anywhere near Scientology's sphere of influence.

To begin with, I will note that I myself found out that the 'ARC triangle' just didn't always work in the real world, outside the hermetic world of Scientology.

Upon further consideration, there were lots of times the ARC triangle didn't work inside Scientology either, now that I think of it. There were many times where all the training and processing on 'communication' didn't make one bit of difference...like dealing with Sea Org 'missionares'.

Anyway, outside of Scientology, there are folks who just aren't interested in our perspectives. Like Scientologists, their heads are full of beliefs and propaganda, or their worldview is too different from ours, and anything that questions their grasp on those things will provoke angry responses. Heck, we've seen that on this board.

Now, to be fair, the ARC triangle and Scientology communication methods sometimes do work if one wants to insincerely manipulate people in a Scientology setting, (think Scientology registrars) but I have been finding since I have been out of Scientology that using these methods never deepens true human relationships. Perhaps part of the problem is the settings that Scientology communication methods are used in.

Perhaps also ordinary people sense that people using 'TR's' and 'ARC' are not truly communicating. Certainly my wife has to keep encouraging me to let my emotions out where she can see them, so she feels she is communicating with ME.

My 5 cents...

Dave,

i completely agree with your post. When I used the term, "communicate", it was not in any way a Scientological term, and had nothing whatever to do with "ARC".

I simply meant that on ESMB there exists more critical thinking, and a real spectrum of intelligent, original thought, from the ridiculous to the sublime. Do you know what I mean? I read Helluvahoax, Gadfly, and TAJ's posts; PTS4, also and there is such insight, and wisdom.

Scientology, by contrast,so erodes and punishes critical thinking, stressing "duplication" of "Source" instead, and lays in various "thought stopping" mechanisms. See Tony Ortegas recentinterview with John Atack, where he really goes into it.

Scientologys expropriation of language is also something we need to reclaim. Freedom, Responsibility, Communication, and Understanding, were words and concepts long before Scientology cast it's dark shadow over them, and will be written and spoken about, long after Scientology ceases to exist as anything but an ugly memory.

Are we clear (​no, not that meaning) on this?

 

[Freeminds]

In calculating the Scientlology cult's cost to society, we haven't yet mentioned (unless I missed it) the suicides, and the other unnecessarily early deaths - in which I include people choosing or being forced to rely on Scieno-woo in place of legitimate medical care. And don't get me started on the suspicious deaths...

That has a quantifiable economic cost, as well as a less straightforward human cost. Hubbard had a lot to answer for.

 

[Lord Xenu]

In calculating the Scientlology cult's cost to society, we haven't yet mentioned (unless I missed it) the suicides, and the other unnecessarily early deaths - in which I include people choosing or being forced to rely on Scieno-woo in place of legitimate medical care. And don't get me started on the suspicious deaths...

That has a quantifiable economic cost, as well as a less straightforward human cost. Hubbard had a lot to answer for.

No, please let's talk about the suspicious deaths. Or maybe it will be suggested that a new thread is started. Maybe we could ask born again believers Marty and Mike about 'Boston Brakes'?

 

[David C Gibbons]

i completely agree with your post. <I feel warm inside now - (grin)>

I simply meant that on ESMB there exists more critical thinking, and a real spectrum of intelligent, original thought, from the ridiculous to the sublime. Do you know what I mean? I read Helluvahoax, Gadfly, and TAJ's posts; PTS4, also and there is such insight, and wisdom.

<SNIP>

Are we clear (​no, not that meaning) on this?

Churchill, I take your points. Indeed, there is certainly a spectrum from ridiculous to sublime here, and there are plenty of failures to communicate, with attendant fireworks. For me, the key point is that PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO ***TRY*** TO COMMUNICATE. They may fail miserably, they may succeed spectacularly, or (typically) they achieve something in between. The dialog that happens after the original post to clarify what was said or intended is as important as the original post. THAT is communication.

As time goes by, my understanding of communication is shifting away from Hubbard's model to something else. Something less simple. At this moment, all I really know is that 'communication' isn't what Hubbard said it was. (as with so many other things). Hiding one's emotions guts communications, but that was what we learned in the TR's. Hubbard carefully taught us NOT to communicate...

Oh, yes, one other thing I know: 'Good Roads, Good Weather' is a disaster, cutting people off from expressing what really needed to be said or heard to/from their friends and families.

Down with Scientology!