What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Cruelty: 41%

Lying: 43%

Outstanding work!

What it reveals to me is that SCIENTOLOGY is an exact reflection & inevitable manifestation of L. Ron Hubbard's personality.

Scientology LIES about Clear and OT and Total Freedom.

Then, Scientology uses CRUELTY for damage control (Fair Game, SP Declares, Disconnection, OSA criminal operations, etc.).

I don't think the cruelty is a "cause" but rather a Draconian solution to the inevitable PR and Financial meltdown precipitated by wholesale lying. It's the temporary "fix" that buys yet another day to lie and ring the cash register.

Thanks so much for this informal but insightful study, Fisherman!
 

fisherman

Patron with Honors
Thanks!

Helluvahoax,

Just for clarification the first number is instances and the second number percentage, so it's:

Total Cruelty 41 instances or 34%
Total Lying 43 instances or 35%

It doesn't change the picture much, if you factor in the cruelty and deceit inherent to the Hubbard's personal traits:

Total Hubbard Personal Traits 18 instances or 15%

And again, it's not a scientific study, just a 'thumbnail'.

Thanks again, fisherman
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
...I can't forgive him for pretending to answer my letters--for some reason that really bugged me.

And to think I contributed to that! Typing people's names into pre-printed cards for Christmas... it should have dawned on me then and there that the letters from uplines were just as fake.
 

aaron saxton

Patron with Honors
What did it for me

I was very very heart broken when I found out that LRH had not lied.

And it was that I was lying to myself all along.

The whole time he told me it was OK to do this or that "in the name of..."

I was one of his Messengers,I thoguth we had a "bond".

It was all there right in front of me from the very beginning. He made no secret of his plans for Earth. He spoke of his position in it, he issued the policy. He spoke of crazy things.

What was the real betryal for me was that I had people all around me telling me that it was true and that OT was real.

For real OT on this planet, I would have killed millions in the name of.

I never dawned on me that I could be surrounded by 100's of people that were all lying to themselves. I mean, they told me it was true, and they were OT 3's, 5's and 8's... surely they knew the truth.

When I realised that they had lied to themselves as much as I had, I took a look at what Ron wrote.

He said if there was no proof, don't beleive it. And he said thousands of things without any proof. Because they were lies.

And that is when I realized that Ron, was in fact, a cruel man.

Not just deluded, but cruel. All those nice words, mixed in with real venom of hate and control.

And I had once stood up for him.

That made me physically sick to realize the truth.

Having said all that, I then had to discover why I decided to buy into his BS in the first place.

And along with that realization came the understanding that sometimes a person just wants to believe because he can just beleive.

And with that understanding comes the knowledge that if you are willing to believe rather than know, then you get whatever is coming. And you can't complain.

It doesn't make it OK that he fooled me.

But more important it is not OK that I fooled myself.

Al Pacino once said "I tell the truth, even when I lie". LRH never lied. And that's the confront of evil one has to rise to, to understand how twisted he really was.
 
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thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was very very heart broken when I found out that LRH had not lied.

And it was that I was lying to myself all along.

I just spent a good chunk of the night crying over just this.

Truth was, I never actually agreed to KSW 1. I figured if I just hung in there, I might see enough to determine it was true for me. Sure, I had wins, and those strung me along.

But what really kept me coming back, day after day, was love.

It had nothing to do with LRH. Nothing to do with Scientology. Just a coincidence, really.

Until tonight, I never really saw the problem I was in the entire time I was in: love vs. not wanting to get in too deep because of disagreements. As the disagreements piled up, love was no longer enough to keep me there, so I left.

The entire bizarre structure of all that crap just collapsed.

It's like I just finally got the EP of Grade 1 twenty-mumble years after I attested. Or something.

Love? Still there. Scientology? Not so much.
 

I Call BS

Patron
A Fitting Line

I just spent a good chunk of the night crying over just this.


Until tonight, I never really saw the problem I was in the entire time I was in: love vs. not wanting to get in too deep because of disagreements. As the disagreements piled up, love was no longer enough to keep me there, so I left.

The entire bizarre structure of all that crap just collapsed.

It's like I just finally got the EP of Grade 1 twenty-mumble years after I attested. Or something.

Love? Still there. Scientology? Not so much.

My favorite line Ive used a lot lately is: "You hurt me more than I love you".
 

Blowdown

Patron
The thing that really did it re my opinion of LRH was that series of books

Ron the writer
ron the artist
ron the discoverer
ron the humanitarian
ron the philosopher
ron the mariner
ron the paranoid sexist racist meglamaniacal egotistical self important wanker.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
The thing that really did it re my opinion of LRH was that series of books

Ron the writer
ron the artist
ron the discoverer
ron the humanitarian
ron the philosopher
ron the mariner
ron the paranoid sexist racist meglamaniacal egotistical self important wanker.


That was a pretty thick "book," wasn't it? Thicker than the others.
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Scientology the Lazy Man's religion

This was a post I wrote over 4 years ago. It explains why I got into
Scn and stayed for so long. If you click on the link, you'll see a wonderful
and inspiring reply to my post from Kristi Wachter.


http://www.whyaretheydead.info/krasel/Cerri_Kristi.html


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 13 Jul 2004 19:16:20 -0000
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
From: [email protected] (Cerridwen)
Subject: Gardening

Every once in a while in this unindoctrination process I just take a
break from it all.

I've been on a break for a bit. You may have noticed that the Comp
lists don't come out quite as fast and furious as before That's
because I started getting interested in other things.

One of thing main things I got interested in was gardening. I had no
idea how much work and how much fun gardening was. I always
thought you just bought some plants, stuck them in the ground,
watered them every so often, and voila! A garden.

I was truly surprised to find out that there are all kinds of do's and
don't, as well as planting, watering, feeding, pruning and weeding.
Don't even mention the subject of aphids to me!

I've gone so far as to subscribe to a gardening newsgroup!

Aside from the beautiful flowers and lovely view that gardening
provides, it is also a wonderful time for reflection.

The past 4 years have been wonderful and horrible. Wonderful because
I have gotten rid of so much of the Scientology mindset. Wonderful,
because I am not afraid to listen, look and learn about new things
any more. Wonderful because I have established wonderful
relationships with "Wogs". ;-)

I love my wog friends and I love my friends that still consider
themselves Scientologists both in and out of the Church.

I no longer consider myself a Scientologist, but I also know that I am
not and will never be a Wog. Actually, I take that back. I can't
say I will never be a wog, because 4 years ago, I would never
have thought that I would no longer identify myself as a Scientologist.

There is still much about me that is a Scientologist, and I think
those are some of the good things :). I've really worked hard at
getting rid of what I thought were the bad Scientology behaviors.
However, I have learned to never say never. I also have
no idea if the unindoctrination ever ends. I think it might
and then in its place I may start to evolve more and more of
my own ideas.

My viewpoint on many, many things has changed drastically but it has
not been easy. The hard part is dealing with how fucking stupid
I've been for so long. It's really hard on the self esteem.

It's tough to confront that you've been that stupid for that long. It
can be truly depressing. So I got to thinking about it. I was
wondering why did I agree? Why did I allow myself to go
along for so long. Why did I fail to see though the lies? Why
was I oblivious to what is obvious to most everyone
else?

Scientology was a promise of what I thought "could be" .

I agreed because I had this spiritual quest that gave me all the
answers. And I think that was the hook for me. "All the answers".

Scientology is the lazy man's religion. It requires no thinking, no
researching, no further looking. It's all bundled up for you in a
nice neat package, thanks to "Source", or LRH

And I bought the package and refused to look, research or think
because I was too lazy to even bother.

I guess what I am doing now is I am finally bothering. Instead of
taking everything Hubbard says as gospel. I look it over and say is this a good
thing or is this fucked up Indoc stuff. Quite a bit has been tossed to
the compost. ;-)

Oh well. It's been a definite learning experience. Too bad it took
me so long to catch a clue, but I sure am happy that I finally did.

The ARSCC is by far one of the more fun and interesting group of
people that I have ever known. I even enjoy the ones that piss me
off. Even though I disagree with the views of some members, I still
read and listen to them because I want to make sure I never fall in to
a "I know it all point of view again". It occurred to me that to only
have dealings with people that completely agree with you all the
time is a bad thing.

Actually, being with people that agree with you all the time is lazy
and lazy thinking has the potential of leading you to cult thinking.

I love ars. What I treasure most about the ARSCC is that its members
are all so very different. So many different points of views, so many
different characters, and behind the scenes intrigue. It's totally
addictive. To admit otherwise is being a fraud ;-)

Thanks to each and every one of you for your contribution and
assistance. My life has been bettered by being in this wild and
crazy place.

Ok time to do more weeding ;-)



--

Cerridwen


Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.
- Andre Gide


NOTE: UPDATE: Jan 7, 20101 I'm a hard core wog.
 

I Call BS

Patron
LMAO

The thing that really did it re my opinion of LRH was that series of books

Ron the writer
ron the artist
ron the discoverer
ron the humanitarian
ron the philosopher
ron the mariner
ron the paranoid sexist racist meglamaniacal egotistical self important wanker.


:roflmao:
LOVE THIS!
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Please provide link or photocopy



LOL! Thx OE!

As part of my acceptance speech for this most prestigious award, I am going to reprint some verbatim quotes by L. Ron Hubbard about Jokers & Degraders (he really didn't like people laughing, apparently, unless they were paying him for it in session). Warning! This sh*t ain't funny!


Excerpts are from:
*** FLAG ORDER 3852 DENIGRATION OF THE SEA ORG-SUPPRESSIVE ACT and;
*** HCOPL JOKERS AND DEGRADERS

The Sea Organization is responsible for getting Ethics in on this
planet and ensuring that Standard Tech is applied. The purpose of the
Sea Org is laid out in FO 1426 SEA ORG PURPOSE:

"MAINTAINING THE EXACT DEGREE OF ETHICS, SCIENTOLOGY TECHNOLOGY AND
POLICY ON THE PLANET."

Anyone denigrating or invalidating the SO in any way would fall under
the category of a "joker or degrader", covered in HCO PL of 5 February
1977, JOKERS AND DEGRADERS:

In some cultural areas, wit and humor are looked upon as a healthy
release. However, in the case of orgs, this was not found to be the
case. Intentional destruction of the org or fellow staff members was
the direct purpose.

As the Sea Org is the infinite guarantee that Scientology® Technology
will always be around, it is a SUPPRESSIVE ACT to denigrate or
invalidate the Sea Organization.

This Suppressive Act is actionable per HCO PL 23 December 1965
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS:

"...engaging in malicious rumour-mongering to destroy the authority or
repute of higher officers or the leading names of Scientology or to
'safeguard' a position...."

Any staff member having any knowledge of such an act would report it
to the HCO of their org (with a copy to International Justice Chief
Flag) who would handle it as per HCO PL 23 December 1965 SUPPRESSIVE
ACTS, SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS.

The S.O. is here to stay. Safeguard it. It's your organization.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Please provide link or photocopy


I don't remember the exact link I originally used, but today i pulled up this link for the Flag Orders...

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/docs/fo3852.txt

And this one for HCOB "Jokers and Degraders"...

http://www.suppressiveperson.org/sp/archives/319


HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 5 FEBRUARY 1977
(Also published as HCO PL, same date.)​
Remimeo
EDs, COs
HESes, S/Cs
HCOs
HASes
Sec Checkers
Case Supervisors
Staff Section Officers
C/S Series 100

JOKERS AND DEGRADERS​


It is an old principle that people who do not understand something occasionally make fun of it.

A recent investigation however into the backgrounds and case condition of a small handful of people who were joking about their posts and those around them showed a somewhat more sinister scene.
Each of these persons fell into one or more of the following categories:

1. Were rock slammers. (Some List 1.)
2. Were institutional type cases.
3. Were “NCG” (meaning no case gain) (the only cause of which is continuous present time overts).
4. Were severely PTS (Potential Trouble Source) (connected to rock slammers).

It might be supposed that misunderstood word phenomena could also be part of this. The rebellious student in universities is usually handled by clearing up his misunderstoods or curing his hopelessness for his future. However, the investigation did not find that any of these jokers or degraders were acting that way solely because of misunderstood words, but the possibility cannot be ruled out.

The four categories above were, however, fully verified. All the persons investigated were found to be the subject of declining statistics, both having them and causing them. Their areas were enturbulated. At least one of the jokers was physically driving basic course students out of an org. In some cultural areas, wit and humor are looked upon as a healthy release. However, in the case of orgs, this was not found to be the case. Intentional destruction of the org or fellow staff members was the direct purpose.

Therefore all executives, HCO personnel and Case Supervisors as well as Qual personnel and Staff Section Officers have a valuable indicator. Where they have a joker or degrader on their hands they also have one or more of the above four conditions in that person.

This opens the door to handling such people.

Properly assigned and then fully done conditions are the correct ethics handlings.

Correctly done Expanded Dianetics, which includes Confessionals and fully done PTS handlings are the case remedies.

Where ethics tech itself is not known or neglected and where there are no HCOs one can, of course, not expect the matter to be handled. And this would be too bad because the case gain and life improvement available in proper ethics handlings, when fully followed through, can be quite miraculous.

Where rock slammers have been undermining the tech and it is not fully known or used or is altered into unworkability one cannot expect Confessionals to be properly done or Expanded Dianetics to be known and properly applied.

The joker is advertising his symptoms. He is also advertising an area of the org where there is enturbulation and down statistics as well as staff members being victimized.

Therefore this is an administrative and technical indicator which cannot be overlooked and should be followed up.

Spotted, investigated and handled, this can be the beginning of an upward spiral for an organization.

Where someone is driving ethics out, tech is not likely to go in. You have to get in ethics and tech before you can begin to get in admin.

The next time you, as an executive, wonder why you are working so hard, look for the joker in the deck.

Humor is one thing. Destroyed orgs and human beings are quite something else.

It is our business to get the show on the road and get the job done.


L. RON HUBBARD
Founder​


 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Ultimately, no matter how much I tried to believe that the Tech was Good and the Admin was Bad (my one person freezone Universe), Bare Faced Messiah was the final kick in the teeth that forced me to admit to myself that the whole thing was a scam.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
For me there were several points. First, I noticed that so called OTs had no fancy abilities regardless of pretending to have them. Also I noticed that there were very few original scienoweenies still in good standing. They all had been declared, as if LRH saw them as a threat. And most importantly, I never got past Level ZERO as a patient. So fuckitol. I flunked scientology.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
His military record and Vistaril in his veins.

History prior to and at the inception of Dianetics/Scn didn't bother me too much - after all, wasn't the system meant to raise one up the tone scale with a corresponding ethical/moral improvement - or so my thought went at that time.

Infiltrating the gov't didn't even bother me too much as factions of that entity can be criminal and corrupt.

However, Paulette Cooper, the continuous and greater and greater military boasts and then dying with Vistaril certainly proves the system wrong.

In short - no "practice what you preach".
 

Challenge

Silver Meritorious Patron
LRH was a clever dude! I never thought of that. However, he married Mary Sue Whipp, who became his "third" wife, but if he "never had a second wife" prior to her, well, then she would minimally have been his second wife. Thus, by the time of that interview, even if his marriage to Sarah was null, he most certainly DID have a second wife, Mary Sue. No matter how you slice it, he was lying.


Either way, it was "disrepecting" both women.
I always thought that he was a woman hater, and that this hatred was acted out in his promiscuity.
It was a chickenshit answer aside from it's truth or falsity.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
What changed my mind about LRH?

1. Being "ordered" to attend the "mandatory event" in 1986. That was my first clue that something was really wrong. So, I didn't go.

2. Hearing the news (later) that the immortal guru that sold me immortality was dead.

3. The ghastly (and ghostly) realization that Scientologists believed not only in unholy ghosts (BT's) but also in holy ghosts that were in outer space doing "research".​

That's when I began to line-cringe.

When a guru can die, the die has been cast.
 
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