What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
LRH was a clever dude! I never thought of that. However, he married Mary Sue Whipp, who became his "third" wife, but if he "never had a second wife" prior to her, well, then she would minimally have been his second wife. Thus, by the time of that interview, even if his marriage to Sarah was null, he most certainly DID have a second wife, Mary Sue. No matter how you slice it, he was lying.

I think that is a case of being really pedantic. Yes, Tubbs sounded stupid saying it, but there is a female in my past. I and her ex-husband both refer to her as "Zero" and in a club of which we used to be mutual members she is perpetually called "She whose name shall not be mentioned" with overtones of The Scottish Play.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
I never liked his photo; he seemed sleazy to me. Maybe this is a personal bias, but I always felt that people with those full, slack, wet lips that Hubbard had came across as unreliable and untrustworthy. (I'm prepared to be wrong here.) So I was always a bit creeped out by Hubbard when I was a new, lowly SO member in a FOLO far, far away from him. As I got higher up and closer, and actually read his regular telexed orders, I began to suspect he was also a liar of huge magnitude -- not just an occasional white liar like everyone else. Then I read the Messianic project while I was at Flag, and the cold, clear realisation came over me that I was right: he was a megalomaniac and mad. That made a joke of everything I was suffering through and was enough to make me question everything. But it also gave me the strength to withstand trials to come (such as two RPF trips and the three months at Happy Valley near Hemet) and to understand that I could trust my own judgment.

Reading over some of the posts in this thread I have come to recognise that periodically, maybe every 10 years or so, Hubbard clears the decks and gets rid of hundreds of SO members through investigations such as the L1 R/Ser project in the early 80s, leading to RPF assignments, offloadings, blows. Maybe he himself, not being stupid, understood that he had to keep himself surrounded by compliant Ronbots and to clear away the doubters and those he had gotten tired of, or who had been too much abused. It's not a bad strategy -- until the advent of the Internet, at least, when those who got booted out or who left of their own accord began to compare notes. Comparing notes was a signal crime in the SO that I left, as it allowed exes to see they were not alone in their experiences and in their questions. Long may it reign.
 
My first doubts about LRH came about while on staff in the 80's. The Mission Holders Conference and the David Mayo declare, weird. Unbeleivable. And than LRH died. The "event" where his passing was announced was also unbelievable. I didn't by it. He was leaving because things were in such great shape and the clearing of the planet was in such good hands? I didn't see that to be the case. And I didn't see OT or Clear demonstrated. I began my 1 1/2 year end of endless routing off staff cycle. Eventually I just had to leave. I kind of blew.

25 years later I had a brush with an old friend, a Scientologist. I had just discovered facebook. After a lengthy facebook conversation I almost took another drink of the koolaid, I was headed back in. I could feel the warm fuzzy embrace of the cult envelope me and I liked it. But...I still had some doubts and I did something that I had never done. Yes, it took me 25 years to get the courage up to "Google..Scientology". I knowingly mingled with SP's. I was terrified, knowing I was venturing into the SP land of no return. I was definately going to pay via sec check if I went back in. Goodbye eternity.

*(I do realize that Google was not available 25 years ago, I had just never looked into the other side. That is a no no. Google or, the library?)

I am not sure which was my "No f---ing way, get out of here, shut the f--k up" Eureka moment. The revelation about the truth of the OT levels or the reading of the autopsy report, or maybe that great youtube interveiw of some Pheonix talk show with the reviled SP Ron Dewolf, LRH's son. It was one of those.

And may I say thanks to Tory Magoo and Michael Pattinson, my first google stops, and from there the many others who have shared for saving me from being a dumbshit twice.

Now I am just pissed off that I was conned and wasted my twenties and lots of money and helped to perpetrate the crime, all for a Con Man.
Hence my tiltle. [email protected]
 

Motti

Patron
First day I set foot in a Scientology mission back in 1978, I was interviewed by the mission holder. She asked me: "Did you hear anything about us before?" "Yes, I heard you are a cult. But I don't care. I read a book by Ruth Minshull (How to choose your People). The data in this book made sense to me. I can use it. I came to study more of this data. As for your cult - I don't care if after I leave the courseroom in the evening you take out your altar and do whatever strange rituals cults do. All I'm interested in is the data and see what part of it I can use in life".

This viewpoint held fast with me and kept me on the sane side of things for 33 years. I always made a distinction between the data and the organization or its founder.

Many madmen or seriously deranged people in history contributed to the accumulated wisdom of Humanity. John Nash, the Nobel-Prize winning mathematician who invented the theory of games, suffered from Schizophrenia. The Nazi Rocket technology used to bombard London served as the basis of the American Moon Landing program. LRH, too, wrote some pretty useful stuff. It doesn't mean you have to buy everything he said, only the parts that make sense to you and which you can use to improve conditions in life.
 

Clarence Rockaway

Patron with Honors
Same here along with the other books such as A Piece of Blue Sky.

I never was one to revere Hubbard like some kind of a God. Scientology was always a subject of study for me, not a religion. The whole "That's what Ron says" mantra REALLY made me sick to my stomach when someone would recite it, as if Hubbard knew everything about everything. One person in particular would pull that out of her arse on a regular basis and she was probably the most loony cultie there. I feel sorry for her in a way. She's devoted her entire being to a malignant lie created to enslave people and steal all their money. What a waste.

I got kicked off staff because I wouldn't drink the kool aide and decided to take a trip to the library, where I found Bare Faced Messiah. The stuff I read in that book did a lot to wake me up to the fact that the cult was a cult. Up until that point I'd assumed that the cult was basically good but had gone off the rails. My low-level attempts to shake things up and get the org moving in what I considered to be the right direction is what got me kicked off staff. Bare Faced Messiah revealed to me that there was no fixing Scientology because it was rotten to the core.

In the years since, as I've learned more and more about Hubbard, it has become crystal clear just what a sociopathic megalomaniac he was. For a while I'd assumed that the cult had gone bad as Hubbard had lost control of it, but the truth is that Hubbard created the cult to be exactly what it is. He was an evil bastard who should have been drowned as an infant.
I went to the Hollywood Roosevelt hotel to hear Heber explain away the big ARC break in the field. Maybe it was the 1983 rampage of the Finance Police. Even I could tell he was lying. Then a few months later, I went to the even bigger bash at the Bonaventura hotel in downtown L.A. (Lost Angles). The top Sea Org brass talked and one particular french Quebec guy sounded totally facist. And Ray Mithoff was head of tech. RAY MITHOFF!!! I knew him at CCLA. He couldn't find his ass in the dark with both hands. How about PeeWee Herman as head of Tech. I left the C of S that day in September of 1983. But I still believed in the tech, and was dense enough to believe that some evil perps people had taken the reins from LRH against his will. I guess it was looking over the first drafts of Bent Corydon's Messiah or Madman, that made me realize that Hubbard himself was evil... Go understand the world!
 
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Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: What Changed My Mind About LRH?

At this moment my opinion about LRH started to change. And each day I am learning more and more about his crimes.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ll-my-story...&p=533004&viewfull=1#post533004
After my father had spent a lot of time in foreigns countries, he suffered another cardiac infarct. I missed to ask him where he'd been and what he'd done. He began to talk about wanting to end his life, about wanting a new start. My husband and I talked with him for a long time...

A few years later, his employer laid him off. 1 week before my youngest brother turned 18, my father died. He had everything organized, even found a job training (vocational school) for my brother.


He had said goodbye to me a short while earlier, by playing chess with me (just like we did in the very, very early days) and giving me a long hug. I wasn't aware of this back then, I was just wondering.

Later a person told me that he had denied a donor heartand didn't take his meds (Betablocker and Aspirin) anymore. Had I known this, I had taken him to the hospital.

I heard about his death one day after it had happened, once again a relative informed me about it.
I lost my childhood because of him. I lost so lots because of Hubbard.
 
First day I set foot in a Scientology mission back in 1978, I was interviewed by the mission holder. She asked me: "Did you hear anything about us before?" "Yes, I heard you are a cult. But I don't care. I read a book by Ruth Minshull (How to choose your People). The data in this book made sense to me. I can use it. I came to study more of this data. As for your cult - I don't care if after I leave the courseroom in the evening you take out your altar and do whatever strange rituals cults do. All I'm interested in is the data and see what part of it I can use in life".

This viewpoint held fast with me and kept me on the sane side of things for 33 years. I always made a distinction between the data and the organization or its founder.

Many madmen or seriously deranged people in history contributed to the accumulated wisdom of Humanity. John Nash, the Nobel-Prize winning mathematician who invented the theory of games, suffered from Schizophrenia. The Nazi Rocket technology used to bombard London served as the basis of the American Moon Landing program. LRH, too, wrote some pretty useful stuff. It doesn't mean you have to buy everything he said, only the parts that make sense to you and which you can use to improve conditions in life.

So why keep it a secret? Why not share this very rare and mysterious "useful stuff" that Hubbard supposedly authored
 

AnonKat

Crusader
HE MADE A SARCASTIC JOKE

I noticed that many ex-scientologists and scientologists have trouble spotting sarcasm

LRH was a clever dude! I never thought of that. However, he married Mary Sue Whipp, who became his "third" wife, but if he "never had a second wife" prior to her, well, then she would minimally have been his second wife. Thus, by the time of that interview, even if his marriage to Sarah was null, he most certainly DID have a second wife, Mary Sue. No matter how you slice it, he was lying.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
First day I set foot in a Scientology mission back in 1978 ... [I said] "The data in this book made sense to me. I can use it. I came to study more of this data."

I've never heard anybody but a deep-dyed Scientologist use the word "data" in this way. "Data" is in the dictionary as a word, all right, but it's not standard English to refer to the contents of a book as "data". Did you really speak that way right from the beginning? Or is this a re-expression, in Scientology dialect, of what you said at the time?
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
HE MADE A SARCASTIC JOKE

I noticed that many ex-scientologists and scientologists have trouble spotting sarcasm
The hell he did! - The lying sack of shit, LRH, got confused by the question. He was 'PTS' being aware that he was a bigamist and was afraid the reporter was after that.

:duh:
 
Hi - a couple of points.

When I was newly out I didn't believe the 3P on Ron, the drug use, the bigamy, the do as I say, not as I do, drug rotted teeth etc. I was however receptive to 3P on DM, I already had little respect for him.

What changed it for me was reading a post somewhere on the web - about the inaccuracies in All About Radiation - you can't wash off gamma radation etc. I was all WTF? How could he put himself up as an authority on a subject with out boning up on it? Then I rembered the tape references where he says how he napped during those lectures, and his lousy grades in the course. Huhh? The sound of stable data shattering ensued.

Prior to that when I was still in, there was his bit in DMSMH I ran into on the basics, where he says nerve growth is due to physical impacts and is why cave man had bigger brains. What the hell ? So cave men walking into low lying branches,cave entrances and wacking each other on the their heads with clubs gave them bigger brains? Was he joking or was he serious - and if he was serious, OMG!

(You think I am making it up? See p85-86 The cell and the organism)

Then on one of the BC lectures there is this Q & A session where our hero is answering questions from the students - he is so damn arrogant and cold - hell, I thought, how can anybody like him?

Then there is the bit of the radioactive clouds (helatrobis tapes I think) going down the galactic arms engulfing planets with talking things in them. I was wondering if he had a clue how vast the distances between stars was and how ungodly long it would take for the clouds to travel from star system to star system.

It was faux pas like this that started to break down the myth around Mr. Know it all, our buddy, Ron.

But the really amazing thing is how I managed to keep believing those out points, and the only logical thing I can say, is it is a mish mash of truth and lies. I have done some of the otee stuff like exterioze, seen ri's but not at will, and so it is like this shiny trap with mystery glue slathered over both lies and truth that sticks me to it.

Gahhh!

Mimsey, another fly, crawlling out of the web

PS OMG!!! Google DC 8 & DC 7 That was drop dead funny, he mixed them up.:clap:
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
Reading L Ron Hubbard Madman or Messiah. That finally took away the "awe" I had for Hubbard. Then I kept reading other data such as Nancy Many's book where L Ron Hubbard sent her to the RPF when she was pregnant and even when she queried the order to him he still sent her there.

I have read a lot of data and feel that I myself am a better man than LRH.

I used to feel when I was a true believer that I could never be the man L Ron Hubbard was. Now I feel that I and everyone else is far more benevolent than he could ever be.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Many madmen or seriously deranged people in history contributed to the accumulated wisdom of Humanity. John Nash, the Nobel-Prize winning mathematician who invented the theory of games, suffered from Schizophrenia. The Nazi Rocket technology used to bombard London served as the basis of the American Moon Landing program. LRH, too, wrote some pretty useful stuff. It doesn't mean you have to buy everything he said, only the parts that make sense to you and which you can use to improve conditions in life.

This is a logical fallacy.

Besides its a pretty skimpy list you're using to prove your point and even the two examples are bad ones and incorrect. John Nash, is a diagnosed schizophrenic true, but all of his major achievements and work came before his first major psychotic break. Besides when it comes to great achievements in mathematics you chose one man with schizophrenia, whereas their are hundreds of even more accomplished mathematicians with no such mental issues. He is an extreme rarity if nothing else.

The men who worked on the Nazi Rocket project at Peenemunde (Creating the V-1 and V-2 rockets) weren't madmen or deranged - not by a long shot. The genius behind the German rocket program was Weherner Von Braun, always maintained he was forced to join the Nazi Party under duress. Either way membership in the Nazi Party, under Adolph Hitler, certainly does NOT earn one the label of deranged or mad especially when joining was mandatory for keeping your job. (You can give plenty of other ignoble titles to nazi party members, sure, but not the ones you selected. Only Hitler and his top leadership might be labeled as mad or deranged.)

As for "deranged people" or "madmen" you'd be better off claiming they have made contributions to the arts. You'll at least find more examples. As for major contributors towards scientific knowledge or accumulated wisdom, there are very few deranged or mad men to be found; maybe .001% of the population of major contributors. (I could only think of Nietzsche, but even his major work was all produced before he would be labeled "mad.")

I will agree LRH was a madman and deranged. I will not however agree he contributed anything significant to mankind in the way of knowledge or wisdom. Trying to scrape up a few examples of deranged people contributing to humanity's knowledge does nothing to support the idea that LRH actually contributed anything to humanity's wisdom anyway.

EDIT: Also great point made by Peter Sod below me. Academics and scholars around the world all recognize the achievements of Nash, VonBraun, etc... No real academics recognize Hubbard for a damn thing- except maybe the religious ones who point to him as the founder of a text book example of 20th century manipulative cult.
 
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SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
lol, I have seen the same interview it was a Witz
"What about your second wife Mr Hubbard ?"
I never had a second wife !!!

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/thre...erview-with-l-ron-hubbard.48494/#post-1008219
Oh.. It was a witz!? - Hubbard was a master humorist, a regular comedian!! - He made so much fun with his second wife.. Read this:

http://www.ronthenut.org/northrup.htm

Hmm.. AnonKat, are you trying to be funny?

The lying sack of shit, L.Ron Hubbard was about to shit his pants in fear that the reporter was going to expose him as a bigamist.. So the world class 'guru' lost it, and said some absolutely meaningless rubbish..

In fact, this 'effect' is well known and can be observed. Think about the 'excuses' that criminals will offer. Or even motorists, when they have transgressed against traffic regulations.. One guy told the police that the oncoming cars was invisible!

:screwy:
 
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Veda

Sponsor
HE MADE A SARCASTIC JOKE

I noticed that many ex-scientologists and scientologists have trouble spotting sarcasm

This is what David Gaiman, then Public Relations Director for Scientology in England, told Paulette Cooper in 1971 - forty years ago:

From question/answer #19, in the 'Appendix' of Cooper's book:

19. (from Cooper) "DO THE SEA ORG PEOPLE SIGN A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT?"

(From Gaiman) "Never make an allegoric joke near literal minded humorless reporters."


Lying really is a Scientology sacrament.

A suggestion for Anonkat: Spend less time at Marty's place.

By the way, funster Hubbard didn't just "erase" his second wife, he "erased" his redheaded daughter by that "erased" second wife.

Scroll down to the bottom to see Hubbard's reaction to his daughter innocently trying to contact him while she was away at college: http://www.ronthenut.org/northrup.htm
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
First day I set foot in a Scientology mission back in 1978, I was interviewed by the mission holder. She asked me: "Did you hear anything about us before?" "Yes, I heard you are a cult. But I don't care. I read a book by Ruth Minshull (How to choose your People). The data in this book made sense to me. I can use it. I came to study more of this data. As for your cult - I don't care if after I leave the courseroom in the evening you take out your altar and do whatever strange rituals cults do. All I'm interested in is the data and see what part of it I can use in life".

This viewpoint held fast with me and kept me on the sane side of things for 33 years. I always made a distinction between the data and the organization or its founder.

Many madmen or seriously deranged people in history contributed to the accumulated wisdom of Humanity. John Nash, the Nobel-Prize winning mathematician who invented the theory of games, suffered from Schizophrenia. The Nazi Rocket technology used to bombard London served as the basis of the American Moon Landing program. LRH, too, wrote some pretty useful stuff. It doesn't mean you have to buy everything he said, only the parts that make sense to you and which you can use to improve conditions in life.

Soderqvist1: Contribution to wisdom is dependent upon a mind, which works properly!
In example; if the spelling program in the Word program is not working properly, it has nothing to do with the Chess program; the computer can still play Chess with me as usual. Kurt Godel is probably the 20th century’s greatest logical genius but suffered from paranoia and starved to death. Professor Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead had a dream to derive all mathematics from logic in their masterpiece PM - Principia Mathematica 1910, but Kurt Godel proved in his book; “On the undecidable proposition of Principia Mathematica and related systems” that mathematics is incomplete. PM is made up of three volumes, and the first one describes how you go from 0 to 1.

John Casti is a PhD in Mathematics, and he has said in his books as I have read, that "PM is a book which everyone is talking about, but close to nobody has read, I tried some years ago to read said book, but I gave up, because literally I was bogged down in a morass of impenetrable abstract symbols, but the Genius of Kurt Godel, he took the whole logical language of PM and transformed it into numbers since his system P is an arithmetical counterpart to PM.” He let numbers talking about themselves called self-referential and one of the sentences was G, which claim that; “I am not provable”. The proof amount to; system P is consistent if sentence G is not derivable within P. Sadly enough Godel died of starvation in the hospital because he believed that the world was out to poison him so he couldn’t eat. But Hubbard was mad and incompetent and is rejected by the whole world of academia. The only thing he was good at was manipulation. I haven’t seen any useful stuff in scientology!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Gödel
 
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