What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

[Smilla]

*** There is no Second Wife
*** There is no Christ
*** There is no Fair Game
*** There is no 2D Rules
*** There is no Disconnection
*** There is no other game in the universe where everyone wins
*** There is no critic who does not have crimes
*** There is no barrier to full Operating Thetan
*** There is no one else who can create workable technology
*** There is no sickness without PTS
*** There is no hidden data line
*** There is no one who ever made it thru the Wall of Fire
*** There is no other total freedom tech besides Scientology

Hmmm, wonder if there is a pattern developing here?

That is so funny

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Dueling Nullifications...

Ron "you'll just have to trust me on this" Hubbard
*** There is no Second Wife
*** There is no Christ
*** There is no Fair Game
*** There is no 2D Rules
*** There is no Disconnection
*** There is no other game in the universe where everyone wins
*** There is no critic who does not have crimes
*** There is no barrier to full Operating Thetan
*** There is no one else who can create workable technology
*** There is no sickness without PTS
*** There is no hidden data line
*** There is no one who ever made it thru the Wall of Fire
*** There is no other total freedom tech besides Scientology

Mr. E. Sandwich (ex-scn)
*** There is no KSW because something has to start working before it can keep working
*** There is no blinded, crippled war hero who fixed himself
*** There is no doctor or nuclear physicist who found the answers to the mind
*** There is no Reactive Mind that can be erased
*** There is no Clear
*** There is no Wall of Fire
*** There is no one salvaging any sector of this galaxy
*** There is no Mecca of Technical Perfection at Flag
*** There is no religion in the business of scientology except the word 'religion'
*** There is no Operating Thetan that is exterior and operates
*** There is no Bridge to Total Freedom
*** There is no SP causing the illnesses and accidents happening around the world
*** There is no Creed of Scientology that anyone can give credence to
*** There is no Ethics tech that serves the 'greatest good' of anything except CoS itself
*** There is no such person as hubbard described who "rose above the bank"
*** There is no whole track psych conspiracy to enslave the universe
*** There is no tone 40 postulate
*** There is no handling of 'no results' except to attack, fair game and destroy people
*** There is no eternity that scn controls or can deliver to anyone, ever
*** There is no grade chart other than the printed graphic on the wall
*** There is no Sea Org that is the most ethical group on the planet
*** There is no single action taken by the CoS that is not calculated to make money
*** There is no reincarnated Buddha who is a red-haired con man

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I actually have something to contribute to this thread. Weird, huh?

But I started reading Battlefield:Earth without knowing who LRH was. I kept on losing the book and I'd been meaning for years to read it when I got the chance.

When I heard that LRH had said "the best way to make money is to start a religion" and then I found out he went on to do just that, I lost all interest in the book.

While still a 'believer' I made the best effort possible to read that book. I persisted to about 3/4 and then decided, "I really don't care about any of these characters, nor how the story ends!" The movie was so badly done, that I didn't care how it ended either!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

While still a 'believer' I made the best effort possible to read that book. I persisted to about 3/4 and then decided, "I really don't care about any of these characters, nor how the story ends!" The movie was so badly done, that I didn't care how it ended either!

Scientology's 'bridge to total freedom' was so badly done that I didn't care how it ended either!

 

[Papabear]

Unrelated life circumstances forced me to realize I listened too much to others who I thought were smarter than me. Lawyers, doctors, college educated, parents, brothers, etc. I looked in the mirror and said, "buddy, you are an idiot!" Then I took steps to educate myself on all aspects of life I didn't understand. (Thank you internet!) Once the fires were put out I asked myself what else had I not investigated myself and SCN fell right into view. (My parents got me in age 10).

But what really got me was realizing that the horrible treatment of SO members came from the top down. Reading other people stories also really helped to see that I wasn't the only one. The other main reason was finding out Hubbard lied so much about his past as I really had him up on a pedestal. The truth knocked him down and the rest of Scn followed.

 

[Panda Termint]

....

Is that you, Dad?

 

[fisherman]

Papabear,

I can't imagine how difficult it must be to break free from something your parents involved you in at so early an age. What an incredible burden!

(Thank you internet!) Once the fires were put out I asked myself what else had I not investigated myself and SCN fell right into view. (My parents got me in age 10).

fisherman

 

[Free Being Me]

I would have to say the money aspect. Huge sums to go up the bridge. When I started asking myself why the large funds and where it was going. That started me questioning what I was doing attached to this mess. I still had some conceptions that the "tech" had value until I came here to ESMB. I have deleted all my PDF files from my computer regarding Sci. and Dianetics. My computer is "clear" now and I will happily get along with out such tripe.

 

[fisherman]

My computer is "CLEAR" -- that very funny!

 

[Osiris]

I would say the human rights issues, done it for me,

I was happy to do the courses & the Auditing, at the time,

but I could not buy, only what I wanted to buy, or come & go as I pleased, & most of all I could not say No to them,

it felt like I had been forced every step of the way, because my basic human rights & communications were constantly ignored,

it also felt like I was in Jail because once I was on their lines I was not allowed to leave or take a break (without a major hassle)

& when I was stripped bare of all my salable assets, & $18,0000 in debt & I could not provide any more money for them,they basically did not care,

they would tell me it was my problem & I was responsible for the situation I was in,

basically I felt "Rapped" or "mugged" by the organization & as a result I am either so scared or Angry with them, or both, I never want to go back there again,

& I don't want it to happen to anyone else, because as I can see here it happens to nearly everyone who goes though their door,

But, basically you always felt that something was not quite right,

& it should have been RINGING BELLS LOUDLY that all of the above are the TRADEMARK OF A CLASSIC CON JOB

THEY GET ALL YOUR MONEY AS QUICKLY AS THEY CAN, BECAUSE IT MAY BE TOO LATE TOMORROW,

I am just really sorry The CON JOB was run on both the STAFF & the PUBLIC,

& like any big CON JOB (or Pyramid Scheme) The Lives of the people who were conned are left in ruins

 

[Human Again]

It's all gradients I guess, I always found the clapping to a photo or a bust absurd and that made me cringe at the thought of the man.

Later, two decades later... when I was far back enough to see that the DB clearly (No I don't really think with that word anymore but it seems apt in view of that leaked photo of him with long dirty hair and nails) had intentionally planned and carried out his own agrandisement and funded his superstar life-style by stealing the energies and years of thousands of people who had the misfortune to be altruistic or desire personal improvement. Well, that really was too much to overlook. Oh and when I realised the hypocricy of this mentally ill man hooked on drugs and selling "Enlightenment" to the world.
Where is that puke emoticon when I need it? Oh, here it is:

 

[Human Again]

Some of the independent scientologists, such as Geir Isene, are not interested in talking about Hubbard, but only about the CoS and the tech, etc. For me, the character of the person determines whether or not I want to be like that person. I do not want to be like Hubbard. Give me Jesus Christ, Gandhi, MLK and others - whether or not flawed - but not Hubbard. Sorry for those who loved him, but I see nothing admirable in the man. That means that I cannot muster any desire to try Scientology. It simply has no appeal whatsoever. Because the source cannot be trusted, IMO, the tech cannot be trusted.

My 2 cents.

Here Here!! Bravo!!! Well Said!

 

[Carmel]

I changed my mind about LRH when I verified reports that he had put kids into chain lockers, overboarded people to shame them, and when I discovered what sort of father he was (especially to Quentin).

Any one of the above would have been enough for me to write him off, but as it was, I discovered and/or verified it all at the same time, so he kinda became a gonner in my world overnight.

 

[programmer_guy]

I always found the clapping to a photo or a bust absurd and that made me cringe at the thought of the man.

Yeah, I had to lead that clapping, a couple of times, when I was an intern sup at ASHO on SHSBC.
I didn't like it even tho I was a true blue SCN at that time.

At that time, I thought, sure, have the huge pic of LRH on the wall in the ASHO SHSBC course room in honor.
But do we really need to go overboard in almost worship of him? I felt embarrassed at that time.

 

[xseaorguk]

what changed my mind about LRH?

I remember wondering why he had such bad teeth and was overweight when I first saw photos of him.
I thought that surely such an OT person would fix his teeth.

After I left the SO but still continued to believe in $cn and defend it even if anybody said anything against it, I remember hearing that David Mayo had been declared an SP, then shortly after Capt. Bill Robertson, who came on a mission to Saint Hill while I was on staff.
I remember just thinking, well how come this super-duper OT guy called Hubbard didnt notice that for years thes SP's had been working closely with him.

I started to simply look practically at $cientologists and people who were on staff or who had already left that I knew, and noticed that none of them seemed to have an 'improved, better life'.
There was one OT in Berlin I admired, a Jewish business woman, who seemed very able and just got on with things and was always promoting that one should be 'on course' or the typical question " why are you not on lines?"
But what was she not in the Sea Org? I asked myself....

After being in the SO myself and realizing it was a lot of giving up things for a cause I also wonderd why these OT's were not in the SO, as surely it would be the best thing in the world to do, (according to the SO anyway.)

Another few things that impressed me later and finilaized my opoinion on Hubbard was what his son Nibs said, cos this was his own frigging son, who for one thing I had never heard of, and then to be saying that his father was a liar and made things up, and stashed money etc etc.
Surely if this guy spent years with his father he would know him better than most poeople, I thought.

 

[slimjim]

Reading the affidavits (I think they were on Lermanet) from Hanna Whittaker, and about the small boy being put in a locker, and the overboarding practice.

Just before that I had read about Lisa MacPherson, which immediately shut me off from CoS. I didn't care HOW it was spun, there was just NO excuse for her death.

Then right after that I saw the Tory Magoo videos and there was a video with some other OT's, where they discussed LRH's Academic credentials.

Within a couple of days I'd read tons of stuff, and each new item I read or found out about just strengthened my feeling of disgust, and at the same time relief. Relief that my own thoughts and judgements were maybe correct after all.

I'd wondered for so long about why I couldn't make the tech work and then been reamed for not making it work. It was MY FAULT.

I'd so often discussed with friends about OT's and how they didn't seem very OT. I hoped I wouldn't end up like that - we'd use the phrase, "oh well, a cleared cannibal is a cleared cannibal"

I'd looked at LRH being fat and thought, cripes, you could eat healthy and get some exercise.

I'd wondered about his writing being so damn pompous, cumbersome and repetitious.

I'd wondered about his snide remarks and criticism of "medicos", pshychs, government, police, etc. and thought, well how come he can be critical and not have his missed witholds pulled

I'd wondered about WHY I couldn't find out about what happened to his wife and children, and why we couldn't know how he died. I mean "stupidity is the un-knowness of time place form and event, isn't it?

Just tons of stuff I'd wondered about just fell into place and I started to feel relief and better about myself a bit.

The icing on the cake was seeing those two pictures of him looking like a nut case with long stringy hair

 

[lkwdblds]

Nice clean intelligent discertation.

Unrelated life circumstances forced me to realize I listened too much to others who I thought were smarter than me. Lawyers, doctors, college educated, parents, brothers, etc. I looked in the mirror and said, "buddy, you are an idiot!" Then I took steps to educate myself on all aspects of life I didn't understand. (Thank you internet!) Once the fires were put out I asked myself what else had I not investigated myself and SCN fell right into view. (My parents got me in age 10).

But what really got me was realizing that the horrible treatment of SO members came from the top down. Reading other people stories also really helped to see that I wasn't the only one. The other main reason was finding out Hubbard lied so much about his past as I really had him up on a pedestal. The truth knocked him down and the rest of Scn followed.

Papabear - Nice clean and intelligent discertation. I am sure, many of the people on ESMB have had similar thoughts and realizations. You do us all a favor by summarizing a complex phenomena into a succinct short declaration.

Papabear, does your screen name stem from the Goldilocks story or from George Halas, the founder of the Chicago Bears or from some other source?
Lakey

 

[Cherished]

TR-BN: Training Routine - Brown Nose

Student and coach sleep an uncomfortable distance apart. Special emphasis should be made to ensure that student's nose is positioned directly below the buttocks of the coach above.

The drill trains a Sea Org Member to comfortably brown-nose the senior Sea Org officer directly above them on the command channel. Flunks are given for wincing, gagging or not penetrating their nose deeply enough into the command channel.

TR-BN is passed when the Sea Org Member can effortly brown-nose without thinking, despite whatever bullbaiting "originations" issue forth or are expelled from the Source Command Channel they are showing respect to.

 

[Cherished]

Unrelated life circumstances forced me to realize I listened too much to others who I thought were smarter than me. Lawyers, doctors, college educated, parents, brothers, etc. I looked in the mirror and said, "buddy, you are an idiot!" Then I took steps to educate myself on all aspects of life I didn't understand. (Thank you internet!) Once the fires were put out I asked myself what else had I not investigated myself and SCN fell right into view. (My parents got me in age 10).

But what really got me was realizing that the horrible treatment of SO members came from the top down. Reading other people stories also really helped to see that I wasn't the only one. The other main reason was finding out Hubbard lied so much about his past as I really had him up on a pedestal. The truth knocked him down and the rest of Scn followed.

Papabear, to have been willing to question shows a great deal of courage and character. Congratulations. I look forward to reading your story in more detail as it comes.

 

[lkwdblds]

You have a rare quality - You can see the obvious.

Reading the affidavits (I think they were on Lermanet) from Hanna Whittaker, and about the small boy being put in a locker, and the overboarding practice.

Just before that I had read about Lisa MacPherson, which immediately shut me off from CoS. I didn't care HOW it was spun, there was just NO excuse for her death.

Then right after that I saw the Tory Magoo videos and there was a video with some other OT's, where they discussed LRH's Academic credentials.

Within a couple of days I'd read tons of stuff, and each new item I read or found out about just strengthened my feeling of disgust, and at the same time relief. Relief that my own thoughts and judgements were maybe correct after all.

I'd wondered for so long about why I couldn't make the tech work and then been reamed for not making it work. It was MY FAULT.

I'd so often discussed with friends about OT's and how they didn't seem very OT. I hoped I wouldn't end up like that - we'd use the phrase, "oh well, a cleared cannibal is a cleared cannibal"

I'd looked at LRH being fat and thought, cripes, you could eat healthy and get some exercise.

I'd wondered about his writing being so damn pompous, cumbersome and repetitious.

I'd wondered about his snide remarks and criticism of "medicos", pshychs, government, police, etc. and thought, well how come he can be critical and not have his missed witholds pulled

I'd wondered about WHY I couldn't find out about what happened to his wife and children, and why we couldn't know how he died. I mean "stupidity is the un-knowness of time place form and event, isn't it?

Just tons of stuff I'd wondered about just fell into place and I started to feel relief and better about myself a bit.

The icing on the cake was seeing those two pictures of him looking like a nut case with long stringy hair

Slim Jim -Nice post, my readings progressed in a pattern similar to yours and yielded similar results. You ACTUALLY HAVE an ability which most people assume that nearly everyone has (I used to assume it myself). The ability I am refering to is to be able to see the obvious. The root words of Scientology consist of scio and logos. The whole idea is to figuratively do what a skilled surgeon does in a delicate operation and use a very sharp and delicate scalpel to separate bad diseased tissue from the good healthy surrounding tissue. We are supposed to do an analgious thing in separating out true information from false data.

Most Scientologists who are still in the C of S mean well but they have lost their ability to separate data in this manner. In short, they can not "See the Obvious" and as a result, "They are shut off from the fruits of observation." What shuts them off is the blind acceptance of false data - basically they are brainwashed into accepting a pack of lies and shore stories put out by the management of their Church.

I like to give the example of someone studying New OT VI at Flag. This person is well along, near the top of the bridge and should be a paragon of Scientology virtues. His ability to separate out truth from fiction should be in the top 1% of the population easily.

The New OT VI enrolee receives his study pack and begins studying. The first part of his pack has the KSW Bulletins and he must reread them or if they have been star rated earlier, he may sign off on them. Lets say the person decides to read them again. Hubbard states in the section Technical Degrades that it is a suppressive act to label materials as old and no longer used or only used as background and historic information. The person does a couple of demos, looks up a word or two and signs off that he knows this data.

The person then turns the page and sees right before him, "New, OT VI." He should apply KSW and say, wait a minute, if this is new OT VI, there must be an old OT VI. I wonder what that was about. I better check and see what it was and why LRH decided to cancel it. Almost no one does this, I did not do it when I was active. The few who did ask such a question usually end up being kicked out of the church unless they accept the slough off explanation they are shown, probably in Ethics. Basically, if one asks this question, they are considered out Ethics for having doubts about Scientology's upper management.

Lakey