What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

[Mick Wenlock]

for quite a long time I rationalized the whole thing by saying that I thought scientology "worked' and this had notihg to do with whether Hubbard was big mouth story teller or not.

What broke the cocoon for me was realizing that when he talked of "curing"himself after WW II he either was lying to Scientologists or he was lying to the US Government.

There was no waffle room at all - the man had either lied about his 'cure' and thus convinced many that his drecknology could actually ahndle such physical conditions or he had lied to the US government for decades merely teke a few dollars out of their pension plan.

Either way this was dishonor and just cheap trickery.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

For me the question is really what ever made me put a photo of him in frame and put it on my desk. Why didnt I ever admit to myself what I thought...fat, ugly, self obsessed, creepy, self agrandising, fakesmiling, lying, egotistical, power drunk tosser.

The feelings of self hatred, embarassment and being taken for a ride every time we had to clap the giant peeling photo of the man in a silly hat. And the clapping always went on and on and on way longer than you wanted, everyone hoping it would stop soon, every thinking I hate this, and hoping no one else would notice! It must have been just like that in Nurenburg.

And please dont get me started on his bloody bronze bust, hideous grinning face.

I remember, a little too late, the code of honour.

Im sticking to my own feelings, I never liked the hero worship, the falseness and the so obviuos lies.

The man was sick, and it was the arselicking top chaps that made him so. Someone just standing their grounds every now and then could have made him see sense, perhaps. But no MarySue said yes I'll steal the documents for you dear, and go to prison for you and and let you treat me like crap. Plenty of others did the same.

Glad I never met him!

 

[slimjim]

Hi Lakey,

Gosh, know what you mean, although I only got to Grade 0, I can see the longer I was in, the more points I went beyond.

It's like each unexpressed doubt or query numbs you to the next one and after a while you don't see the huge "pothole" discrepancies anymore, or at least don't mention them. The severity of the punishment didn't seem worth the querying.

I'm actually now enjoying looking at the " outnesses" I saw while I was in, but didn't mention. Like seeing LRH in that ridiculous costume with one of those megaphone things, like a really badly staged replica of a replica of a film director.

Or the Cringeworthiness of his films and his humor.

And the deplorable writing style. Friends recommended I read Mission Earth. Rave reviews I got on it. I plowed through it. It was like bloody beans and rice.

Furthermore, on his writing, if you didn't understand something, it was YOU who had the M.U., LRH never made a mistake and used every word correctly in every instance. How many of us pretended we cleared our MU's but it still didn't make sense?

Sorreee, I'll stop now.

 

[slimjim]

For me the question is really what ever made me put a photo of him in frame and put it on my desk. Why didnt I ever admit to myself what I thought...fat, ugly, self obsessed, creepy, self agrandising, fakesmiling, lying, egotistical, power drunk tosser.

The feelings of self hatred, embarassment and being taken for a ride every time we had to clap the giant peeling photo of the man in a silly hat. And the clapping always went on and on and on way longer than you wanted, everyone hoping it would stop soon, every thinking I hate this, and hoping no one else would notice! It must have been just like that in Nurenburg.

And please dont get me started on his bloody bronze bust, hideous grinning face.

I remember, a little too late, the code of honour.

Im sticking to my own feelings, I never liked the hero worship, the falseness and the so obviuos lies.

The man was sick, and it was the arselicking top chaps that made him so. Someone just standing their grounds every now and then could have made him see sense, perhaps. But no MarySue said yes I'll steal the documents for you dear, and go to prison for you and and let you treat me like crap. Plenty of others did the same.

Glad I never met him!

Beautifully put!

Thanks

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Oh Slimjim, yes that was good wasnt it just not understanding something because you failed to find the obscure definition for a word that he'd invented. Those sentances of his that could have meant three different things. The insistance that bisexual means the type of reproduction that has two seperate sexes. No it doesnt and never has. The word for that is sexual reproduction as opposed to asexual reproduction. Either he had an mu himself or he meant the 2d is about sex with a man or woman. He liked writing about lesbians didnt he, even if they just turned straight by being shagged by a man. But that was fiction.

 

[slimjim]

LaLaLouLou,

I am entirely convinced the sod had tons of MU's of his own, some of which may have been corrected by others, or not. But I'm larfing my arse off now, because I'm realising the only way through for many of us was to fake it.

Really this is very therapeutic!!

How many of us faked our understanding at some point, faked our succes stories, faked that we were winning, faked that we were happy, faked that we were doing well, faked that we liked LRH.

Gawd that feels good. Thanks!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Slimjim, dont forget all those fake cogs at the win session!

 

[slimjim]

Slimjim, dont forget all those fake cogs at the win session!

 

[slimjim]

LaLaLouLou,

I'm lovin this!!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Ive just cogged that this is the best therapy Ive ever had, Emma can i write a success story?

 

[slimjim]

me tooo, me tooo!

 

[slimjim]

La La Lou Lou, just noticed something, I'm sending you a PM

 

[lkwdblds]

LaLaLouLou,

I am entirely convinced the sod had tons of MU's of his own, some of which may have been corrected by others, or not. But I'm larfing my arse off now, because I'm realising the only way through for many of us was to fake it.

Who would even dare to correct Hubbard? If you tried, you were walking on very thin ice. Attempting to correct him would at best get you RPF, but more likely would lead to being off loaded. The only way to succeed would probably do so it private and make sure he knew you were totally willing for him to take credit for anthing new which you pointed out.

Really this is very therapeutic!!

As Hubbards predecessor and possible mentor, P.T. Barnum once said, "You aint't seen nothing yet!." I predict you get far better therapeutic gains participating on ESMB than you ever did being active in C of S. Also, its almost totatally free, except for a portion of your electic bill! (By the way, I don't know if Barnum really originated that quote.)

How many of us faked our understanding at some point, faked our succes stories, faked that we were winning, faked that we were happy, faked that we were doing well, faked that we liked LRH.

Remember that Hubbard said, "Only the tigers survive and even they have a tough time of it!" What's a little faking of wins for a tiger?

Gawd that feels good. Thanks!

First to La La Lou Lou - That was a very good post you wrote above! Yes, Nurenburg, they had to endure their "Sieg Heil!, Sieg Heil!. which they seemed to enjoy, by the way, and we hade to endure our "Hip, Hip Hoorays!"

To - Papa Bear: I've underlined some comments I made above to items in your text. I am serious about you getting far more case gain participating here than you did with your training and even your processing with C of S.

I've been here about 10 months and only about 2 months ago, I realized this is the case. There is a technical reason for this. To wit, in C of S you only inflow data in from Hubbard, just once source, and despite what C of S tells you, you do not have the liberty to examine it thoroughally and accept it or reject it or reach some middle ground where you like certain parts and dislike others. You must accept Hubbard's data 100% or else terrible things happen to you. Also, you may not discuss your wins with others. This one - two punch really restricts any actual wins you may receive.

On an open panel such as ESMB, you get to exchange your ideas with your peers and openally discuss things including disagreements. This is just a far better method of learning than an enforced inflow of one man's ideas while everything is kept secrete and you are forbiden to talk over anything with friends and loved ones or have your own opinion. You have already started talking to people here. You don't have to take my word for it. I am confident that you will see I'm right.
Lakey

 

[nozeno]

When I realized he was fat, ugly and sprayed spittle when he spoke.

 

[Ted]

Thanks for the additions!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a common theme I notice is:

1. Falsity
2. Cruelty

I find it interesting that Hubbard's personal attributes were more influential than inconsistencies in administration or tech. Even those who got 'fed up' with staff work also cite unfairness or cruelty in that environment.

I really didn't know what to expect, so what may seem obvious to you, is certainly interesting from where I sit.

fisherman

These are but two traits of narcissistic personality disorder.

Study up on the complete package. Therein you will find L. Ron Hubbard.

SP/PTS tech is nothing unless the actual "SP" is identified and the appropriate WHY with a handle is worked out with the pc. Many of the so-called SP's found are not SP's at all: They are parents who have a genuine concern for their children. Or, husbands and wives who have a genuine concern for their spouses. Or, ...

Organized scientology has been known to take this concern as Counter Intention, makes more of the wrong WHY, then sucks in actual opposition for the pc and the church. All along it's just parents (and others) showing concern and best interest for their children (friends and family).

For "SP," substitute the connections you might have had to someone with narcissistic personality disorder. That person could be anywhere on the tone scale. That person could be professing to be your best friend, your true lover, or any darn thing at all in your relationship. The point is, that is the glue. Because the facade shows one thing, and the person's actual intentions and actions toward or about you are hidden, this is the dangerous 1.1 (covert hostility) LRH wrote about. And most importantly to the subject of Hubbard and scientology, this is the actual LRH. He said and did one thing to manufacture the facade; he did something else, as he damn well pleased, to satisfy his personal goals and purposes.

This is quite a bit to confront if you are a lover of LRH and what he professed to stand for.

The narcissistic personality stands for their own self. That's it. Any indication to the contrary should not be taken at face value. It's a trick, a manipulation.

I could go on. Study up on the narcissistic personality disorder. Put the label on L. Ron Hubbard. Everything will fall into place from there.

And if it doesn't for you, so be it. My item, not yours.

 

[Ted]

The Beginning of the End

Long before I attended any scientology courses I was reading scientology books.

While reading, I came upon the term suppressive person. My friend was on a beginning course so I asked him what that meant. He said, "That's what they do to you when they don't like you!"

I turned back to my book. In that instant I knew this is how my participation in scientology would end.

 

[slimjim]

When I realized he was fat, ugly and sprayed spittle when he spoke.

 

[fisherman]

Ted,

Excellent post! You wrote:

And most importantly to the subject of Hubbard and scientology, this is the actual LRH. He said and did one thing to manufacture the facade; he did something else, as he damn well pleased, to satisfy his personal goals and purposes.

This is quite a bit to confront if you are a lover of LRH and what he professed to stand for.

The narcissistic personality stands for their own self. That's it. Any indication to the contrary should not be taken at face value. It's a trick, a manipulation.

I could go on. Study up on the narcissistic personality disorder. Put the label on L. Ron Hubbard. Everything will fall into place from there.

I've had to deal with a person with severe NPD in 'real life' and found it quite scary. Based on that experience, even the subject frightens me, but I should (and ultimately would enjoy) learning more about it.

fisherman

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Narcissistic personality disorder

On NPD....a brief overview from Wikipedia which might as well be entitled "THE NINE POINTS OF KEEPING L RON HUBBARD WORKING":

NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER: Diagnostic criteria:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
4. Requires excessive admiration.
5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. Lacks empathy:Is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her.
9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.

 

[thetanic]

On NPD....a brief overview from Wikipedia which might as well be entitled "THE NINE POINTS OF KEEPING L RON HUBBARD WORKING":

[...]

4. Requires excessive admiration.

Hip, hip, hooray!

Yeah, NPD totally nails it. Scary stuff.