What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

[HelluvaHoax!]

These are but two traits of narcissistic personality disorder. Study up on the complete package. Therein you will find L. Ron Hubbard. -----snip------
Put the label on L. Ron Hubbard. Everything will fall into place from there.

Hey Ted! Great post!

What you say is perfectly true. Things that were "filed away" a long time ago that didn't make any sense just sort of tumble out of the storage closet when considering Ron The Narcissist.

Example. I just remembered a crazy little bit of HubbardMania when I was in the Sea Org as a kid a week out of high school. There was a Flag Order by Hubbard that clearly stated that if ANY gifts were sent to ANY sea org members on the ship, that he, the Commodore, would first be brought and shown the gift (BEFORE it's rightful owner got it).

Then Hubbard would decide if HE wanted to keep it and, if he so elected, would do so. Yup, he keeps it for himself, that's what I said.

Imagine telling that to a family member. "Hey mom, before you send me that nice watch I wanted, don't engrave my name on it because Ron might assign me lower conditions for betraying him by putting my name on his watch."

I would LOVE to see that Flag Order again just to have an uproariously great laugh. Anyone remember it?

 

[Blue Spirit]

Three Wives

the BBC footage from the 70s or late 60s where he tells the reporter he had only had 2 wives. Does anybody have any idea why he lied about that to a news reporter in a planned interview?

Technically he had two wives as a Bigamist is only married to the first wife.

He did have 3 wives by any logical, ethical consideration + 7 children.

That video where he says that is so obviously a lie of some sort, revealed by

his face, voice tone, and what he's saying was one of the key things that got

me to see his bad side. Also note the shakey look on the young crew as they

line up on the deck. Those people are PTS to an obvious person.

 

[Papabear]

Papabear Nickname

Papabear - Nice clean and intelligent discertation. I am sure, many of the people on ESMB have had similar thoughts and realizations. You do us all a favor by summarizing a complex phenomena into a succinct short declaration.

Papabear, does your screen name stem from the Goldilocks story or from George Halas, the founder of the Chicago Bears or from some other source?
Lakey

Thanks Lakey, you are very kind to say so, my Ego thanks you!

The Papabear name is from having 3 kids, one of our son's friends called me that and I liked it and have been using it since. Besides, I'm a big (kinda plump) tall hairy guy (except for the head!). I also give big 'ol bear hugs to anyone who will have them...

I sure am grateful for all the people on here, you guys rock!

Cheers!
Papabear

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Technically he had two wives as a Bigamist is only married to the first wife.

He did have 3 wives by any logical, ethical consideration + 7 children.

That video where he says that is so obviously a lie of some sort, revealed by

his face, voice tone, and what he's saying was one of the key things that got

me to see his bad side. Also note the shakey look on the young crew as they

line up on the deck. Those people are PTS to an obvious person.

Hey, I know what we could do. We could just try and calculate a tally of everyone he banged.

 

[billheichert]

When i realized that i had be conned for all those years, I began to dig. It all started to line upp for me. The con was thought up and perptrated by one person. It was lrh. This conclusion has been supported by the hundreds of things now avaiable to read and see. But if one knows lrh policy and then LOOKS at the whole picture objectively, it becomes obviouse (to me) that it's a crock. A very well constructed crock, but still a crock.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

When i realized that i had be conned for all those years, I began to dig. It all started to line upp for me. The con was thought up and perptrated by one person. It was lrh. This conclusion has been supported by the hundreds of things now avaiable to read and see. But if one knows lrh policy and then LOOKS at the whole picture objectively, it becomes obviouse (to me) that it's a crock. A very well constructed crock, but still a crock.

hey billheichert, yes after the first domino falls, the rest soon follow!

But, what about the policy "ANY AUDITING IS BETTER THAN NO AUDITING"

Does that mean "ANY CROCK IS BETTER THAN NO CROCK?"

 

[lkwdblds]

Reconciling two conflicting datums.

Hey Ted! Great post!

What you say is perfectly true. Things that were "filed away" a long time ago that didn't make any sense just sort of tumble out of the storage closet when considering Ron The Narcissist.

Example. I just remembered a crazy little bit of HubbardMania when I was in the Sea Org as a kid a week out of high school. There was a Flag Order by Hubbard that clearly stated that if ANY gifts were sent to ANY sea org members on the ship, that he, the Commodore, would first be brought and shown the gift (BEFORE it's rightful owner got it).

Then Hubbard would decide if HE wanted to keep it and, if he so elected, would do so. Yup, he keeps it for himself, that's what I said.

Imagine telling that to a family member. "Hey mom, before you send me that nice watch I wanted, don't engrave my name on it because Ron might assign me lower conditions for betraying him by putting my name on his watch."

I would LOVE to see that Flag Order again just to have an uproariously great laugh. Anyone remember it?

HELLUVA - There seems to be two conflicting datum going on here. The first datum is that "Scientology is the only game in the Universe where everyone wins." The second datum is the L. Ron Hubbard has first right of refulsal for all gifts sent to his crew. This doesn't appear right because obviously the crew member or the parents who sent the gift do not win in this scenario.

However, the narcissism charatecteristics which you supplied quickly resolve the apparent contradiction. In Hubbard's mind, he was essentially "everyone" or everyone of any importance. The others were solely there to serve the dynamics of their master, the only being of importance, really, and hence Hubbard was "everyone" as far as he was concerned.

With that established, Hubbard could truthfully state and believe that "Scientology was the only game in the universe where everyone wins." If Hubbard won, the the lackeys waiting on him might be thrown a tiny extra scrap of food or obtain a small benefit in some other way and that was the only way that the other insignificant beings could win.
Lakey

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

HELLUVA - There seems to be two conflicting datum going on here. The first datum is that "Scientology is the only game in the Universe where everyone wins." The second datum is the L. Ron Hubbard has first right of refulsal for all gifts sent to his crew. This doesn't appear right because obviously the crew member or the parents who sent the gift do not win in this scenario.
However, the narcissism charatecteristics which you supplied quickly resolve the apparent contradiction. In Hubbard's mind, he was essentially "everyone" or everyone of any importance. The others were solely there to serve the dynamics of their master, the only being of importance, really, and hence Hubbard was "everyone" as far as he was concerned. With that established, Hubbard could truthfully state and believe that "Scientology was the only game in the universe where everyone wins." If Hubbard won, the the lackeys waiting on him might be thrown a tiny extra scrap of food or obtain a small benefit in some other way and that was the only way the the other insifnicant beings could win.Lakey[/QUOTE

]


Cool post, thanks!

So, do you remember seeing that Flag Order?

It was one of my "Top-100-don't-even-try-to-figure-it-out-right-now-funky-scientology-moments""

There are only so many of those moments a person can take before they finally DO figure it out and just SPLIT (after completing the part of the Leaving Routing Form where you look at the CoS and say with a smile: "Hey, f*ck off and exteriorize from your meat body mockup!")

 

[lkwdblds]

I never saw that Flag Order.

HELLUVA - There seems to be two conflicting datum going on here. The first datum is that "Scientology is the only game in the Universe where everyone wins." The second datum is the L. Ron Hubbard has first right of refulsal for all gifts sent to his crew. This doesn't appear right because obviously the crew member or the parents who sent the gift do not win in this scenario.
However, the narcissism charatecteristics which you supplied quickly resolve the apparent contradiction. In Hubbard's mind, he was essentially "everyone" or everyone of any importance. The others were solely there to serve the dynamics of their master, the only being of importance, really, and hence Hubbard was "everyone" as far as he was concerned. With that established, Hubbard could truthfully state and believe that "Scientology was the only game in the universe where everyone wins." If Hubbard won, the the lackeys waiting on him might be thrown a tiny extra scrap of food or obtain a small benefit in some other way and that was the only way the the other insifnicant beings could win.Lakey[/QUOTE

]


Cool post, thanks!

So, do you remember seeing that Flag Order?

It was one of my "Top-100-don't-even-try-to-figure-it-out-right-now-funky-scientology-moments""

There are only so many of those moments a person can take before they finally DO figure it out and just SPLIT (after completing the part of the Leaving Routing Form where you look at the CoS and say with a smile: "Hey, f*ck off and exteriorize from your meat body mockup!")

I never saw it. You know, if I saw it, it would have started me thinking negarively about Hubbard and if my Mom sent me a sweater or scarf that she knitted for me and Hubbard intercepted it and kept it for himself, that might have been enough to cause me to route out right there on the spot.
Lakey

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I never saw it. You know, if I saw it, it would have started me thinking negarively about Hubbard and if my Mom sent me a sweater or scarf that she knitted for me and Hubbard intercepted it and kept it for himself, that might have been enough to cause me to route out right there on the spot.
Lakey

Wondering if this explains why my former-wife (who worked with Hubbard directly) never got the sexy lingerie I sent her? (sorry if the image this evokes is now traced on your cells! )

 

[Enthetan]

For me, the first crack was when I was in the SO. They played an LRH tape for the crew where he talks about the SO, and how great we are, and then really rags on about Class 4 Org staff. I remember thinking, "Hey, I used to be org staff. If this is what he says about org staff, I wonder what he says to CMO about US?"

 

[Ted]

For me, the first crack was when I was in the SO. They played an LRH tape for the crew where he talks about the SO, and how great we are, and then really rags on about Class 4 Org staff. I remember thinking, "Hey, I used to be org staff. If this is what he says about org staff, I wonder what he says to CMO about US?"

And there's scientology's original third-party.

 

[lkwdblds]

Hubbard third partying staff!

Enthetan and Ted - I never connected any dots that Hubbard was 3rd partying his own staff. I had two small instances where it occured but they were minor.

While on the Apollo, in his Orders of the Day he made a small slur against AVU, the Authorizations and Verifications Unit. It had something to do with those Board Technical Bulletins that were only compiled from Hubbard's work but were not actually written by him. They were junior to HCOB's and Hubbard was complaining that some BTB's were being issued by the AVU unit without being spotted as BTB's. From what he was saying, the AVU guys were doing their jobs based on his policies but he criticized them for not intuitively knowing if something was a BTB, even when it passed all the tests for an HCOB based on his own policies. He said something like, "I'm going to have to go down there some day, in AVU, and put a head or two on a pike so they don't get too cocky. I thought, What the hell? Why attack them and bring them down a few notches if they are strictly following your policy.

The other instance was when I was in Treasury at CCLA. I was reading my treasury hat and Hubbard made the same kind of minor attack. He said something like, all those conservative robots down in treasury are just pencil pushers and just say no all the time towards funding new ideas and projects. Some day I'll go down into Treasury and put a few heads on a pike.

I thought, What the hell? My hat pack has a drill in it to just say no over and over into a mirror and that if we pay a non authorized bill, we owe the Org the money that was paid when it should not have been. As far as shooting down projects, no one in Treasury had any participation of what projects were to be funded or what got approved. We simply collected and banked the money, paid whatever management dictated we pay and kept an accounting of it in the books. We had almost no decision making capibility. I was trying like hell to duplicate Hubbard and do what was needed and wanted so why would he slur guys such as me who were following his policies and why should any heads have to roll?

Both times this happened, I noticed the outpoint and forgot it almost immediately. I never thought of these two incidents until reading Enthetan and Ted today.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

lkwdblds,

If you notice LRH's communication, it was pretty damn rare that he would commend people for knowing what they were doing. It seemed mostly to be a series of blaming failures on staff. DM seems to continue this with his juniors, only more so.

 

[Blue Spirit]

Well Written and I Must Agree

It's all gradients I guess, I always found the clapping to a photo or a bust absurd and that made me cringe at the thought of the man.

Later, two decades later... when I was far back enough to see that the DB clearly (No I don't really think with that word anymore but it seems apt in view of that leaked photo of him with long dirty hair and nails) had intentionally planned and carried out his own agrandisement and funded his superstar life-style by stealing the energies and years of thousands of people who had the misfortune to be altruistic or desire personal improvement. Well, that really was too much to overlook. Oh and when I realised the hypocricy of this mentally ill man hooked on drugs and selling "Enlightenment" to the world.
Where is that puke emoticon when I need it? Oh, here it is:

^^^^^^^^

 

[GoNuclear]

drecknology

for quite a long time I rationalized the whole thing by saying that I thought scientology "worked' and this had notihg to do with whether Hubbard was big mouth story teller or not.

What broke the cocoon for me was realizing that when he talked of "curing"himself after WW II he either was lying to Scientologists or he was lying to the US Government.

There was no waffle room at all - the man had either lied about his 'cure' and thus convinced many that his drecknology could actually ahndle such physical conditions or he had lied to the US government for decades merely teke a few dollars out of their pension plan.

Either way this was dishonor and just cheap trickery.

You have made my day! Drecknology, probably better spelled dreknology ... what a word to coin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From the Yiddish "Drek" meaning shit, dreknology as a parody word for technology, meaning a technology that is full of shit. GREAT PHUGGIN JOB!!!!!!!!!!!! Dreknology is a word I intend to adopt, but, will be sure to give you credit for it should the need arise. I always appreciate the coinage of new words.

Pete

 

[smartone]

The last straw

For me, it was an accumulation of things really. I always felt wierd clapping to a photo of LRH. I hated listening to his tapes. They were so boring and I kept wishing if only he would get to the bloody point instead of going all around the houses telling stories. Then it was the lousy comm cycles of Scientologists who were supposed to know the Comm Formula. I found it particularly annoying when I wouldn't get an ack. Hello? Anybody at home? Did you hear what I said? etc. so rude. Wogs had better comm cycles!

Then it was having to sit through the endless events and all the standing up and clapping. I would always walk out and have a fag when Guillaume Leserve came on because I couldn't get excited about Dianetics stats and I could only understand every fifth word he said anyway.

I wasn't very popular in the orgs because I hated to have to stick to the regimen of a course schedule. Telling me the words "have to" is like waving a red flag to a bull (big button). I would constantly get into arguments with Supervisors/Ethics Officers telling them that I don't HAVE to do anything. Then when I was on course, I was constantly being pulled off my study to do drills. I remember once I was asked to hold the cans for a drill and the guy nearly blasted me through the back wall he shouted so loud. This outpoint wasn't even picked up by his coach or the sup. So I put my 5 cents worth in and we all got into an argument and ended up in ethics.

Then I hated the embellished KRs I got. People really twisted the truth. I don't mind the truth and could take responsibility for it but the embellished lies/exaggerations really pissed me off. AND would I get a copy? Oh no! I always found out about the KRs through the EO.

Then a friend of mine (President, CCLondon) visited CCInt where I was on lines. She was staying at the CCInt's berthing along Hollywood Blvd for the weekend and took me there because she needed to get something. I was shocked to see how awful it was. One of the doors was open and I saw a couple of SO members in only one room and a double mattress on the floor.

When I first got on lines, we all had a great laugh at the orgs and it was fun but then it seemed to get serious around the orgs the last few years and the public were looking fearful. Like they were looking over their shoulders all the time. I had a strong feeling that there was some suppression on the lines.

I was mid NED R/Ds when I was checked on my wins on Objectives. I remembered I had some good wins on them and thought that would be the end of it. Although I wondered why the sudden attention on my Objectives. Then I was C/Sed to do Objectives and I was shown some reference on it. I objected (no pun intended) very strongly and refused to do them. In goes my folder, out it comes again and again I'm given the R-Factor to do Objectives. I held my ground and said it was an invalidation of my wins on Objectives and I F/Ned on that. Back in went my folder and then I was allowed to continue on with my NED R/Ds. Now I realise it was another of Davey boy's ruses to get more money. We all know how those Objectives could go on for ever! Oh no, I wasn't going down that road.

Then I always noticed that staff (at the org where I was) were always unorganised and everything was always last minute and even then it got boshed it up. I realised they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. So much for the green on white.

Then I had a huge argument with an OT8's mother who was not a Scientologist. She was nice to me when we first met. Then she suddenly turned on me (third party). She was really nasty and I gave as good as I got and we ended up ripping each other's faces off.

Next thing I know I'm in the EO's office because the OT8 reported my bad behaviour (not her mother's of course). The EO was this very serious kid who told me I need to apologise to the OT8's mother whose face I ripped off because I was a Scientologist and it is bad PR otherwise. I told the EO that I had no intention of apologising because she was in the wrong. Just the fact that I'm a Scientologist does not give people the right to treat me like shit and for me to turn the other cheek. The EO's face went like stone and she just stared at me. I just stared back at her. I don't think she ever had anybody stand up to her before. She just said "Okay, go back on course".

Then I was observing the "OTs" and their behaviour. I didn't see any examples of what I would like to be really. I also realised that the planet would never get cleared if three quarters of the planet are on the poverty line anyway. Another factor was seeing the orgs empty but according to the events, there was unprecedented expansion. I would always think, where? I don't see any.

The last straw was when I had to move 4 times in three months temporary accommodation while on services at an org out of town. I got more and more fed up with wierd Scientologists and their behaviour. Unreal. So I didn't even route out of the org. I had enough. I just packed my bags while everybody was on course at the org and skiddadled back home. I had never given my real address or home telephone number to the orgs. I only gave them my mobile number. At least I had THAT going for me. Then I changed my mobile

 

[JackStraw]

For me it was also an accumulation of seemingly little things. I think first was the "The Founder is dead, Long Live the Founder" event. I mean if Ron was so OT, why did he have to croak his body to operate without its hindrances? Couldn't he operate exterior to his body??!!:confused2:

One thing that always pissed me off was that: here I am, 25 years on staff, 30 years in Scn and I couldn't be trusted picking out my own ethics condition. Or, I couldn't reliably decide if or when I needed auditing. Or I couldn't tell if I had an MU. Hell, my first post was Crs Sup, second was Pro Word Clearer.

Then, being told "That's your case." This after 25 years of successful "No case on post."

At the last mission I was at, the MH told us staff that we staff members, despite our little auditing and little training (true for most) we (the staff) were "more OT that most of the so-called OTs at the local org's OT committee.

This was then demonstrated by me at that self-same org. I was put on letter writing one night. I started work and 4 "OTs" showed up to "do their bit" to clear the planet-writing letters to CF! I mean: This is their level of confront of planet clearing?! At the end of the night I turned in my letters to the person in charge of CF. She had in one hand, separated by her fingers, the entire production of 4 "OTs". My stack of letters was bigger than 4 "OTs"!

Holy Crap! These are OTs??!! WTF is the point of going through all of that expense, trouble etc if that is the degree of causativeness one achieves?

Then Basics, (GAT had already happened) Ideal org donations, library donations-no one was going up the bridge any more.

I couldn't stand it any more and put myself on a leaving-staff R/F and got out. (Its own story, there.)

Jack

 

[apple]

His lies about his history.
His racist remarks and treatment of others in a condescending manner to start with (pre-internet). After reading about him on the net....dont get me started!

 

[Ho Tai]

Two things early on. I wish I had paid more attention to my discomfort with these:

1. The man doesn't know how zero works in mathematics. :confused2: I realized that with such a glaring inability to understand basic math, he couldn't possibly be a proper engineer. I cringed every time I ran across "wild variable".

2. If he understands scientific method at all, he has no use for it. LRH just needed to observe the results he wanted on a handful of individuals and voila, the latest piece of tech is proven. Peer review?