What Changed Your Mind About LRH?

[stubbard]

After 15 years trying to handle my ruin(and I mean liferuin), I just like
...Ehhh wait a minute...
How many thousands of dollars have I spent to get my ruin handled, how many hours have I worked as staff/sup,BSO,etc). How many times have I heard:

- Ohh you just need to do this auditing cycle and that will handle your ruin, or this course, or donate to IASetc..

How have I not neglected my children for the most good for the most dynamics so many times.
And I was even WORSE than 15 years ago!!!!
I really had to admit that the so called "tech" at least didnt work for me.
I then started to look at other scios, clears and OT:s, tom se if they were doing good...well most of them wernet doing that good. One OT7 was so sick he almost died, and several clears honestly appeared to be worse of than the ordinary man.
So once again I had to admit..the "tech" doesnt work, at least not what it promises.

Then I went in to the internet and read all OT-levels, read about lrh:s REAL lifehistory....Then there it was...all of a sudden the big TRUTH hit me in the face, and I felt like someone pulled the carpet under my feet...I cried and laughed all together when all data about lrh,,OT-levels..the tech all made sence all together.

Then I quickly made the desiscion not be a scio anymoore....couldnt even if I wanted.
I had this sick feeling of being raped during my sleep.

Then it took some years to fully come back as a human, and now my life is good

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Two things early on. I wish I had paid more attention to my discomfort with these:

1. The man doesn't know how zero works in mathematics. :confused2: I realized that with such a glaring inability to understand basic math, he couldn't possibly be a proper engineer. I cringed every time I ran across "wild variable".

2. If he understands scientific method at all, he has no use for it. LRH just needed to observe the results he wanted on a handful of individuals and voila, the latest piece of tech is proven. Peer review?

1. I never encountered "wild variable". Living in a binary world, Zero is NOT the opposite of One, merely the ABSENCE of it.

2. I agree that he didn't use the "scientific method" but, these days, who does? Back in High School we used to have massive arguments with the Physics teacher after performing experiments and graphing them. He would always draw "the line of best fit", and many of us would argue that our sample size was too small and that our results did not conform to his "imaginary" line.

Many medical trials of drugs are done on a sample size that is too small so that they can skew the results in the direction they want. One of the biggest omissions from Medical trials is Blood Type. Here in Oz, there have been massive warnings about Echinacea and St Johns Wart because the majority of the population is Type O who shouldn't be taking the stuff, but they're perfectly OK for Type A.

If Scientology had been fully workable, it still would not have stood up to "Peer Review". The Peer Review system is about maintaining the status-quo, and is used to suppress new ideas. If you hunt around YouTube and KeelyNet regarding "Free Energy" or "over-Unity" devices, you will find many working examples but, despite their functionality, they still "fail" when subjected to the Peer Review system because they are a threat to the status-quo.

TV ratings are calculated on an average of three viewers per suburb--that is a sample size that is way too small!

 

[AngeloV]

After getting out of the SO, I felt kind of lost. After a couple of months, I started dating a woman who encouraged me to enroll at the university and I just forgot about scio for about 15 years. I pulled out my tech volumes every now and then, I guess to try to get that high feeling again but never did. Then I read Messiah or Madman and that did it.

 

[rhill]

The Peer Review system is about maintaining the status-quo, and is used to suppress new ideas.

I don't know about this. Excerpt from "Keeping Scientology Working Series 1," HCOPL of 7 Feb. 1965:

Squirreling (going off into weird practices or altering Scientology)

Looks to me Hubbard made the status-quo of Scientology a Scientology doctrine (self-serving isn't?)

 

[Mystic]

Reading these stories it just amazes me how well this apparition-tulpa thought form Lips Hubbard had been programmed by his makers. He isolated the "cognition" experience and used it well; used it well to entrap, degrade, enslave, dominate, control and make his followers into vampire fodder. Hubbard is lucky he was only a tulpa, an artificial entity, or there would be a large handful of us tracking this piece-of-schoidt entity down and doing some first-class ass kicking.

 

[Ho Tai]

I never encountered "wild variable". Living in a binary world, Zero is NOT the opposite of One, merely the ABSENCE of it.

I thought "wild variable" was the term - it's something like that. Sorry for the imprecision. Unfortunately I got rid of all of my materials about a year ago and can't look it up. One place I remember the term being used was in the Perception of Truth lectures in which he talks about zero.

The Peer Review system is about maintaining the status-quo, and is used to suppress new ideas.

I'm sure that the peer review system has been often abused. That doesn't generally invalidate the value of the process, which is to filter out nonsense and uncover flaws in the material being reviewed that were missed by the author. So if I claim that the world is dark at night and magically brightens up when I open my bedroom shades in the morning (hey, it has worked for me every day and that's the measure of a good theory, that it works, right?), a peer review of my claim might produce other more valid explanations.

 

[Zinjifar]

However flawed it may be applied in practice, all 'peer review' is is the requirement to *publish your data*. Ron's Mystery Sandwich has never been and can't be 'published' because Peer Review runs on the basis of 'repeatability'. Someone else must be able to repeat the experiment following the published steps and achieve the same results. Ron's 'Well, if it didn't work, you didn't do it right' wouldn't fly. Nor does 'I can't/won't tell you that'.

Zinj

 

[Holly]

Mayo's story about elron making the older guy push a peanut around the deck while the whole crew had to stand there and watch including his family who were crying. His nose was bleeding. elron laughed about it.

That's when I realized what a piece of scum he really was.

Never heard this particular story. Absolutely disgusting, sadistic. Almost unbelievable.

 

[Holly]

May I ask,

What information has most commonly 'lifted the veil' and caused 'exes' to change their opinion about LRH?

Mystic wrote:



This got me wondering what specific facts, issues, or truths, have led 'exes' to see "the dark seething entity" and abandon LRH?

Is it different for everyone? Or is there a common theme among 'exes' who have rejected LRH's views and tech? Was it one 'keystone' fact about Hubbard or some accumulation of false information?

I'm curious to learn what 'lifted the veil'!

fisherman

What first lifted the veil for me was hearing directly, about a year after I had left, from two trusted sources who had previously left, that in their view "it's all bullshit." They totally meant it, and they'd been in positions to know while the "bullshit" was being developed.

Many years later, as I was studying psychology over concerns for a personal friend of mine, disrelated to scientology, I encountered studies, among my nursing journals, concerning delusion disorder. The parallels to Hubbard were amazing and shocking (because I couldn't believe I hadn't recognized it before) and it was then, like the recoiling of a giant rubber band that all Hubbard's self-serving delusions, paranoic manifestations, and grandiosity all clobbered me on the head.

I had long since no longer believed in anything of scientology, but suddenly then I understood WHY no one should EVER believe in it.

--H.

P.S. I know I'm posting late on some of these threads, but whether anyone sees my posts or not, I'm just enjoying articulating my own thoughts, putting them down in print through my little keyboard, and am very appreciative of the opportunity to explore others' questions and responses, revitalizing the knowledge that I'm not alone.

 

[Enthetan]

 

[Free2Dream]

"The best way to control someone is to lie to them." That LRH quote was thrown in my face by a former Scientologist roommate of mine. It was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. I was already having nagging doubts at the time, and definitely felt like I was being lied to. Once that quote was read to me, all bets were off.

I starting looking up everything I could about LRH. I discovered enough to be disgusted with him and the Church. I found out more about Lisa McPherson and others who died at the hands of a belief system founded by a con-man and pathological liar. It scared the living crap out of me and I still consider myself recovering to this day.

 

[Truth&Honesty]

HIS PICTURE

There were several things....but what really triggered it for me, was seeing that picture of Hubbard......looking very old, unkept, long ratted hair,....like he was in early stages of dementia. I remember thinking "WTF??? OT MY ASS!!!!"

I started researching on the internet, read Jon Atack's incredible book "A Piece of Blue Sky", and the whole shoddy truth was finally revealed. The old man was a liar, a criminal, a sociopath, and a pile of steaming sh*t.

T&H

 

[I Call BS]

What changed my mind

My losses may seem self-explanatory, but really it was just the constant inconsistencies with logic agaisnst logic! I got into Sci. for its apparent logic and love of all combined (the ultimate). but the constant logic meeting illogic, ethics meeting nonsensical unethics, etc....damn. Started with free will and responsible thought----so the ideals of Sci were great. Come to find out majority of Sci and people in it were opposite....just NEED FOR ADMIRATION. Like the group of nerds who desparately want to belong to an accepting peer group (um. me.) and taste BIG_BEINGNESS, then become addicted to being liked and admired (so long as they give money and sweat---but not to to others or parishiners for "REAL").
When I was a VM in Hurricane Katrina, I was chastised for preventing the suicide of a "DB" (Code was there, he helped me and knows who I mean) who was displaced and wandering, instead of manning the tent on PHOTO OPP DAY. I prevented his death and dont regeret telling telling my senior to fuck off and remember the purpose.
So I didnt get into many papers for the work we did, but I remembered that PR fuck ( Code; what was his name again? Id love to name that SP).
Anayway, I took a heavy loss that Im still not sure even happened....this cant be real, only a bad dream....
That was my first CLUE that STATS WERENT UP in spite of YEARS of effort and following.
But, really, I took the ITSE course (Intro to Sci Ethics Course), and learned what SHOULD HAVE happened since the day I joined up 12? 14? yrs ago....
Even tho Id followed LRH to the letter, the powers that had manipulated me into down-stats, degradation and FEAR hadnt ONCE! NOT ONE TIME done anything with me PER LRH
And even now, LRH's word is not that sacred against my sensical, logical yet lovingly emotional principles. The opposite of every experience I had in Cof $.
So. I changed my mind.

May I ask,

What information has most commonly 'lifted the veil' and caused 'exes' to change their opinion about LRH?

Mystic wrote:



This got me wondering what specific facts, issues, or truths, have led 'exes' to see "the dark seething entity" and abandon LRH?

Is it different for everyone? Or is there a common theme among 'exes' who have rejected LRH's views and tech? Was it one 'keystone' fact about Hubbard or some accumulation of false information?

I'm curious to learn what 'lifted the veil'!

fisherman

 

[RolandRB]

May I ask,

What information has most commonly 'lifted the veil' and caused 'exes' to change their opinion about LRH?

Mystic wrote:



This got me wondering what specific facts, issues, or truths, have led 'exes' to see "the dark seething entity" and abandon LRH?

Is it different for everyone? Or is there a common theme among 'exes' who have rejected LRH's views and tech? Was it one 'keystone' fact about Hubbard or some accumulation of false information?

I'm curious to learn what 'lifted the veil'!

fisherman

It was the DC-8 space-planes that did me. That made me feel unconfortable to the point where I finally left. I mean - DC-8 space-planes with rocket-motors instead of fans. How ridiculous is that? It was the DC-7 that had fans.

 

[Telepathetic]

Twas a toll bridge that began to fissure under the tonnage of those journeying to total freedom. The span further buckled as weight capacities were ignored in favor of rushing all of humanity across.

But, not one moved to the other side as pilgrims herded into ever-tightening masses of discontent. And with each grim story another pound of weighted misery to buckle the swaying structure that lead to nowhere.

It was then, in the terrible din of jostling and screams--there in the chaos of buckling support and crashing dreams--I suddenly remembered something. Unable to move in the crush, my eyes desperately searched until I spotted a lone figure, unmoving.

It was the saintly bridge builder, perched comfortably above, oblivious to the toll of human suffering below; but, smiling as he instead counted the toll of cash receipts.

Bravo!

TP

 

[Telepathetic]

Throughout my 27 year involvement in Scio. I was never able to fall in love, truly in love, with "my savior." I have to admit that it distressed me immensely. I felt guilty about it and of course was unable to express to others what I felt. Then of course I, behaving as a good Scientologist, looked inside.

I remember asking myself one day if I'd enjoy the company of this fellow while having a beer together. I didn't like the answer I got, from me. Perhaps I have a faulty way of judging people.

Was it his pompous, long drawn out stories, his cheesy "stage presence," his big lips or reptilian like features? He looked like, what in my mind I'd consider, the personification of a con man. There was, or it seemed like it at the time, no basis for my harsh judgment of this individual. So, I kept digging inside. I even defended Hubbard from my mother, father or anyone who had a negative thing to say about him. How strange I seem to myself as I write this.

Later on,due to my post, I had access to those "entheta" books so amongst those that I read was Mad Man or Messiah. This validated what I thought of the man, though I didn't,or wouldn't allow myself to, believe all that was said. I could now accept him more though knowing that he was not as perfect as he was lauded to be.

For me, coming to terms with Hubbard's deceit, was a gradual process. One day, after I was out, something finally snapped and I felt very stupid for having doubted myself all those years.

Well, to TRULY understand the "mind fuck," I guess one would have had to have experienced that "mind fuck." I'm still a bit foggy about the whole thing though. I still feel,in some aspects, like I'm swimming in mud when it comes to this subject.

One good thing that I've realized though is, that I am not,even if I committed some despicable acts on others and myself, like Hubbard, DM or people of that sort. Even when I tried to be "unreasonable" that little voice inside never stopped whispering to me. I think I'm learning to listen more now.

If this sounds like something written by a confused person, well let me assure you that...you're right! I have no strong belief system, no holy cows. But where do I go from here?

TP

 

[Code of BigWill]

BSL

His name was a all or al or some weird french thing !!!:confused2:
Any way there were so many things that maid me get out ...
From being kicked off staff (no sec check ) to getting no help with ethics
AND the kicker The letting ass clown be on staff with criminal acts being reported on day after day till his son died !!!

Yea im a bad boy criminal too !!!


but i cared more in one day for that church than he could in a life time or ten !!!

 

[I Call BS]

Whats BSL ' ? YES! Ayal! Fucker. But yeah, Code, AssClown takes the cake. I wonder if I can have a hand in finally correcting that sit. It may be too late, but I hope damages can be reversed. Even if just a little. Ayal. Fucker!
PS. Yes, you did. And I still admire you for it.

His name was a all or al or some weird french thing !!!:confused2:
Any way there were so many things that maid me get out ...
From being kicked off staff (no sec check ) to getting no help with ethics
AND the kicker The letting ass clown be on staff with criminal acts being reported on day after day till his son died !!!

Yea im a bad boy criminal too !!!


but i cared more in one day for that church than he could in a life time or ten !!!

 

[Boojuum]

The crack in the armor

My departure from COS and disbelief in LRH started:

1. Noticing the obvious lack of material success of Org and SO staff compared to wogdom.

Even a bad wog organization pays it's staff minimum wage. The SO and Org staff typically lived a very frugal existence marked by bad teeth, bad credit, worn clothes, bad food, and no money. There were exceptions as some had outside incomes but living on staff pay was a financial disaster. Didn't make sense for the most powerful tech in this sector.

2. LRH's lack of concern for staff.

LRH was adored by staff everywhere but in the 70's never bothered to visit an org. Additionally, nothing could get in the way of HIS needs. I watched 100's of vital staff wasting time on unneeded pet programs. A real exec would have put a stop to it, but LRH, who was fully aware of the waste, didn't do anything. When the FSO's GI's were in the millions, the 200 member staff got virtually nothing for their work. I think each staff and SO member should have gotten to see and shake hands with the guy at the top.

3. Standard tech inconsistency.

Auditing tech was presented as being completely workable and complete. In practice, I watched nearly all auditors and c/s's ordered for retrains. Even seasoned ones. I repeatedly saw technical bulletins with vague directions and heard multiple interpretations and a variety of applications. Even after numerous demands for clarifications, no clarifications were forthcoming. Or a bulletin would arrive cancelling previous bulletins that had been considered critical for years. Typically, the tenor of the new bulletin raged at the idiocy or criminality of the "mice gnawing away at the bridge". How could red on white be corrupted? How could Hubbard be corrupting himself. Quickie grades were an example of shoddy management, not SP's.

4. Upper management focus

The GO/OSA and SO management seemed completely separate from the idea of getting auditing done. The focus appeared to be on the reasons why it couldn't be done--money or one's shady past or need for more TR's or more word clearing or auditing set-ups. Give me a break. Before I got in, I had huge wins by reading and applying a few processes in Handbook for Preclears. But the more I got involved, the more stops I encountered. I witnessed students stuck on work chains or endless TR's or endless ethics or needing set ups and more set ups or their CCRD or the Purif or Upper Level repair. This complexity was a hard pill to swallow. From reading the books and bulletins, you get the idea that auditing and gains are simple. From practice, I got the idea that progress up the bridge was only possible for the rich.

5. Madman or Messiah and Piece of Blue Sky

Seeing LRH for what he was--both brilliant and cunning and paranoid was shocking but rang true. I can't forgive him for pretending to answer my letters--for some reason that really bugged me.

 

[fisherman]

Thanks to everyone for their contributions! Below is a tally of responses throughout this thread. This does not pretend to be scientific, it's simply the number of times, I counted a reference to a specific item out of 122 specific references - your mileage might be different:


Total References Counted 122 100%

Cruelty
Cruelty, general references to 25 20%
Chain locker, children locked in 4 3%
Peanut pusher, man pushes across deck 4 3%
Disconnection from family 4 3%
Personal Abuse, Invalidation 4 3%
Cruelty Total 41 34%

Lying, Deceitfulness
Lying, general references to 20 16%
Lying about money, greed 9 7%
Plagiarism 6 5%
Correspondence, SO #1 3 2%
Tech is false, deceitful 19 16%
False Credentials 3 2%
Lies About Hubbard's Death 3 2%
Lying Total 43 35%

LRH Personal Traits
False Deity, worship of Hubbard 6 5%
Dishonesty, Arrogance, Narcissism 12 10%
LRH personal traits total 18 15%

Books, refences to:
Blue sky 7 6%
Bare Faced Messiah 7 6%
Messiah or Madman 6 5%
Books Total 20 16%


fisherman

p.s. sorry I don't know how to submit this as a table.