What do you Freezoners think of L.Ron Hubbard

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
I have seen many people on the internet call him a con and scam artist. I don't know what he was as a person back in the day, but I would really like to know the Freezoner's take on him. What was this man really like? What happened to him in the end. Did DM drug him up or the CIA? I am really confused at those stories. When I see that there is much truth in the writings of Scientology, I am befuddled at stories about this man being so vile and a scam artist. I just can't see him having that end in mind and coming up with the stuff he came up with in some of these books. I want to know what Freezone members or Ron's Org members have to say about this. Does anybody know what the real story is? Because I don't understand. I hear that the Sea Org was much better under him than it is today. I really only want to hear Freezone members take on this or that of people who actually met him.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
You do know that this is an Ex Scientologist message board and not a Freezone message board? :confused2: I know you have posted in the Freezone section but I don't understand if that's because you only want Freezone to answer?

Many answers to your questions are in the sections on L. Ron Hubbard and Current Management. Stories of people who worked with him. There's a lot to read, but it is worth it.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
Come on guys, thanks for responding, if only to give me the hope that I was gonna get some answers. But I would like to hear this from the Freezoners perspective or people who actually met him. I've already read enough that he is this the devil. From my small experience, I'd say the bit of tech I got a taste of definitely helped me and the theory was something I could relate to, so I'm not gonna rule out that his stuff does work for people, if it works for you, then it ain't a scam to you. There is another side to every story, I know.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard was not the devil. He may have aspired to be, at one point, but, sadly, that's beyond the abilities of a human being (which, astonishingly enough, he was). I too, was helped by bits of the tech (and nearly killed by application of the disconnection policy and reverse processing). The Church of Scientology is a scam, even if the tech that they sell has parts that most definitely aren't.

I suggest you open the floor in your next post to people who aren't FreeZoners. Our resident, Alan, probably knew Hubbard better than most, here. You might want to just PM him, and ask him to comment on this thread.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
Wow, is there a reference that allows them to do reverse auditing? Do they have a term for this. I want to know about this reverse processing thing that I have heard of?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
The majority of Freezoners do not like to hear anything bad about Hubbard. They love the tech. However, many, myself included, just follow the tech
and distance themselves from Hubbard the man.

There is no need for a cult of personality.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
Yea sounds good, I mean, how do we not know that these guys used reverse auditing on Ron? Didn't he think the CoS was being infiltrated by government agents before he was put into hiding?

I think that what he discovered has helped lots of people, from their own opinions, but it seems that this reverse auditing thing, done for profit, is possibly what has been messing up and alienating people in CoS, something being done after his death. They are using this stuff for wrong purposes. I also heard that Ron said SPs were only 2.5 percent of the bunch or likely. But when DM came into power it became 95 percent of the bunch being SPs.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hubbard was paranoid about government infiltration, probably because he was assigning people to infiltrate the government, and had plans to suborne the sovereignty of the nations his Church operated in if it got to a point where they could.

Reverse processing, btw, was well known by Hubbard, and written on extensively by him as "Black Scientology". As Veda tirelessly points out, he was the author of a book on mind control in the most negative sense, though he wrote it under a pen-name and misrepresented it as a product of the USSR. Black Scientology happened under Hubbard's reign, too many times to document here. Check out Operation FreakOut, for instance. Watch the confessions of former (and possibly still so) GO/OSA operative Mike McClaughrey, which were all conducted PER POLICY (written by Hubbard). If they don't make you outraged, angry and upset at Hubbard and the drones who followed this negative aspect of Hubbard's, nothing much will. It isn't anything new or unique under Miscavige's time at the helm. It was Hubbard's idea, Miscavige is just carrying it out.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Hubbard was paranoid about government infiltration, probably because he was assigning people to infiltrate the government, and had plans to suborne the sovereignty of the nations his Church operated in if it got to a point where they could.

Reverse processing, btw, was well known by Hubbard, and written on extensively by him as "Black Scientology". As Veda tirelessly points out, he was the author of a book on mind control in the most negative sense, though he wrote it under a pen-name and misrepresented it as a product of the USSR. Black Scientology happened under Hubbard's reign, too many times to document here. Check out Operation FreakOut, for instance. Watch the confessions of former (and possibly still so) GO/OSA operative Mike McClaughrey, which were all conducted PER POLICY (written by Hubbard). If they don't make you outraged, angry and upset at Hubbard and the drones who followed this negative aspect of Hubbard's, nothing much will. It isn't anything new or unique under Miscavige's time at the helm. It was Hubbard's idea, Miscavige is just carrying it out.

Excellent post.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I have seen many people on the internet call him a con and scam artist. I don't know what he was as a person back in the day, but I would really like to know the Freezoner's take on him. What was this man really like? What happened to him in the end. Did DM drug him up or the CIA? I am really confused at those stories. When I see that there is much truth in the writings of Scientology, I am befuddled at stories about this man being so vile and a scam artist. I just can't see him having that end in mind and coming up with the stuff he came up with in some of these books. I want to know what Freezone members or Ron's Org members have to say about this. Does anybody know what the real story is? Because I don't understand. I hear that the Sea Org was much better under him than it is today. I really only want to hear Freezone members take on this or that of people who actually met him.

Standard Tech Freezone and Ron's Orgs members are not going say publicly - and certainly not on ESMB - what they really think about L. Ron Hubbard. Why? Because one does not talk of the sacred in the presence of humanoids, wogs, DBs, SPs, anti's, bashers, Marcabian-dupes, Xenu-monitored-agents, and assorted meatballs.

Usually, the hard-core Ron-people avoid places such as this, because they do not wish to become contaminated with "Anti-LRH and Anti-Scientology entheta." Those few Ron-people, who might interact within an impure venue, will provide "reality-level-adjusted-PR," "acceptable truths," and other "handlings," and perhaps an occasional angry outburst and, sometimes, allusions to being Ron's chosen, the select few, the elite of the Galaxy, Ron's Loyal Officers, etc.

Here's the inside scoop in a nut shell, as told to me - in hushed tones - by the senior American Ron's Orgs person in the USA, after this person had returned from completing the "Super NOTs C/S and Auditors course" under Captain Bill Robertson in Europe:

No one ever makes it to OT unless he's right with Ron. This means everyone must have his RUDS IN with RON - who is not "dead"

(Only "meatballs" believe Ron is dead, and this meatball-belief is sometimes "curved back" onto the hapless meatballs, with the aim of making "Ron" a non-topic for "critical" discussion amongst meatballs, since, "He's dead," etc. This ignores, of course, that, even if Ron is - "completely" - dead, his "alter-ego," Scientology, lives on.)

Ron is very much alive and "up there," and watching.

So, people should avoid critical, unkind, and disagreeable thoughts about Ron - who waits in the final toll booth near the top of the Bridge - for without Ron's personal OK, not only will we not make it to OT, we won't make it, period, and well - then, only the dwindling spiral awaits, and the pit.

And the pit is no fun, as Ron noted in his description of Hubbardian Hell in Ron's journal 30, "Some religions talk about hell. It's an understatement of what really happens."

According to this way of thinking: It doesn't matter what "bad" things Ron may have done, during his adventures on this (puny) planet. He's the contact point for all beings, in this universe, to Infinite Survival and Infinite Pleasure, and only by being connected to Source can any of us hope to "make it."

Amen, Amen.

Page 5 of this "Outline" considers a list of possibilities as to "What happened to Ron":

http://www.freewebs.com/slyandtalledgy/The Outline.pdf

And a link to info re. Hubbard's (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual':

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=3036&postcount=1
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Standard Tech Freezone and Ron's Orgs members are not going say publicly - and certainly not on ESMB - what they really think about L. Ron Hubbard. Why? Because one does not talk of the sacred in the presence of humanoids, wogs, DBs, SPs, anti's, bashers, Marcabian-dupes, Xenu-monitored-agents, and assorted meatballs.

Usually, the hard-core Ron-people avoid places such as this, because they do not wish to become contaminated with "Anti-LRH and Anti-Scientology entheta." Those few Ron-people, who might interact within an impure venue, will provide "reality-level-adjusted-PR," "acceptable truths," and other "handlings," and perhaps an occasional angry outburst and, sometimes, allusions to being Ron's chosen, the select few, the elite of the Galaxy, Ron's Loyal Officers, etc.

Here's the inside scoop in a nut shell, as told to me - in hushed tones - by the senior American Ron's Orgs person in the USA, after this person had returned from completing the "Super NOTs C/S and Auditors course" under Captain Bill Robertson in Europe:

No one ever makes it to OT unless he's right with Ron. This means everyone must have his RUDS IN with RON - who is not "dead"

(Only "meatballs" believe Ron is dead, and this meatball-belief is sometimes "curved back" onto the hapless meatballs, with the aim of making "Ron" a non-topic for "critical" discussion amongst meatballs, since, "He's dead," etc. This ignores, of course, that, even if Ron is - "completely" - dead, his "alter-ego," Scientology, lives on.)

Ron is very much alive and "up there," and watching.

So, people should avoid critical, unkind, and disagreeable thoughts about Ron - who waits in the final toll booth near the top of the Bridge - for without Ron's personal OK, not only will we not make it to OT, we won't make it, period, and well - then, only the dwindling spiral awaits, and the pit.

And the pit is no fun, as Ron noted in his description of Hubbardian Hell in Ron's journal 30, "Some religions talk about hell. It's an understatement of what really happens."

According to this way of thinking: It doesn't matter what "bad" things Ron may have done, during his adventures on this (puny) planet. He's the contact point for all beings, in this universe, to Infinite Survival and Infinite Pleasure, and only by being connected to Source can any of us hope to "make it."

Amen, Amen.

Page 5 of this "Outline" considers a list of possibilities as to "What happened to Ron":

http://www.freewebs.com/slyandtalledgy/The Outline.pdf

And a link to info re. Hubbard's (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual':

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=3036&postcount=1

Great post, IMO :)

So if those of us who are critical of LRH are going to Hell, and more and more people are becoming critical of LRH, that leaves fewer people to convert. And therefore less people who care for this game.

So, the Church, and the Freezone will need a handling. How long before there's a Scientology Purgatory?

You seen one Religion, you seen them all...
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Point of fact, I have discussed Hubbard's imperfections with at least one standard tech type Freezoner on yahoo group lists and the person was cool with admitting such.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
From my small experience, I'd say the bit of tech I got a taste of definitely helped me and the theory was something I could relate to, so I'm not gonna rule out that his stuff does work for people, if it works for you, then it ain't a scam to you.

I don't know what you are referring to here exactly, but if it was the session you did with my stuff it isn't Hubbard's tech. It's probably about 20% Hubbard. The whole automated bit is impossible per Hubbard; the Rub part of R&Y is nowhere mentioned in Scientology; the Yawn part of R&Y is nowhere mentioned in Scn in the way I make use of it; the 6-direction visualization process is derived from Hubbard's stuff, but he cancelled creative processing in 1959 because it was only 99% workable [ref the tape Level VII, quoted elsewhere on ESMB], and anyway, he didn't use creative processing on real incidents like I do (as far as I recall), only totally imaginary things. I got the 6-dir process from Robert D's R3X. The session form items like start of session; auditor's code stuff like only running charged items and only for as long as the process produces change; worksheets; rudiments handling if needed (but not using a normal ruds processs); and other recognizable bits do come from Scn, but the process(es) used do(es) not.

Paul
 

acertainratio

Patron with Honors
Probably a lot of the positive beliefs about him are untrue.

Probably a lot of the negatives about him are untrue too.

There is no doubt that he was an extraordinarily complex and changeable man - capable of genuine kindness one minute, and petty spitefulness the next.

Part of his 'tech' is workable, and has helped a lot of people; and lots of it hasn't worked for anybody. I've yet to meet anyone who says that they benefited from the 'False Purpose Rundown'.

I was never a member of the Cof$, and did my Life Repair, Grades and OT levels outside.

What I did worked for me, and I'm very glad I did it.

Because I was never exposed to any kind of 'cult of Ron' personality PR by the Church, I never suffered the bitter disappointment that most ex - Cof$ people have. I truly understand that disappointment, though.

Also, part of the work I did focussed on 'auditing out' one's Scientology experiences and disengaging oneself from it - including stuck attention on LRH in the form of adoration, hatred, or whatever form that stuckness takes.

A friend of mine once said of her ex - boyfriend:

"He did me a lot of good and he did my a lot of bad, but now he doesn't do anything for me".
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Part of his 'tech' is workable, and has helped a lot of people; and lots of it hasn't worked for anybody. I've yet to meet anyone who says that they benefited from the 'False Purpose Rundown'.

Search for what Terril Park has said about his FPRD.

Paul
 

acertainratio

Patron with Honors
Search for what Terril Park has said about his FPRD.

Paul
Yes, I had look and it's very interesting - thanks.

I spoke with a guy who had to literally escape from Flag, as he felt that the FPRD was 'doing him in' completely psychologically.

Maybe it's all about the application - I dunno.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Because I was never exposed to any kind of 'cult of Ron' personality PR by the Church, I never suffered the bitter disappointment that most ex - Cof$ people have. I truly understand that disappointment, though.

-snip-

Uh huh.

You did your upper OT Levels at Ron's Orgs - and were "totally transformed by OT 9, 10, and 11," at Ron's Org - an Org which was founded by a guy who called himself Astar Paramegjian, deputy Commander to Elron Elray (Hubbard), Sector 9, and you were never exposed to any kind of 'cult of Ron'.

Okay dokey.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yes, I had look and it's very interesting - thanks.

I spoke with a guy who had to literally escape from Flag, as he felt that the FPRD was 'doing him in' completely psychologically.

Maybe it's all about the application - I dunno.

Alan has made some comments here recently about the problems of FPRD auditing that you might find useful.

Paul
 
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