What do you Freezoners think of L.Ron Hubbard

Terril park

Sponsor
Had a private discussion with a friend which included the FPRD. This person is HIGHLY knowledegeable & experienced on BOTH sides of bridge, giving & receiving. The person is not at present Co$, however since it was a private discussion I am not revealing "personal" details about the individual.

Per the person's origination, FPRD was among the most fun auditing EVER experienced. Ran lots, as I recall it was on the order of hundreds of hours.

However, the person emphasized that CRUCIAL to the delivery of the FPRD was to NOT overrun the pc at ANY POINT during the program. When the person blows out, then STOP handling the chain. DO NOT PROCEED with further auditing at that point. Give the pc the win. If the material comes up again in a LATER session THEN do further handling as appropriate handling.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CONTINUE TO RUN THE PC PAST A MAJOR WIN.

Based on what I was told I could only liken the results of the FPRD to some auditing I received while on the HRD which dealt with similar matters. That experience for me was also similarly wonderful & utterly transformative.

I expect that in the hands of a competent and ETHICAL auditor a pc would quite likely have a similarly glorious time on the FPRD.

Unfortunately, most FPRD program "grads" are Co$ products and the Co$ has VERY peculiar ideas about what is unethical & how to run ethics related auditing sessions.


Mark A. Baker

This applied to me. I was missing around one in two or three sessions because of big wins or persistent F/N or ext. I was allowed to have nmy wins and asked if I was witholding success stories! I was.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
As I understand the purpose of "life repair" programming is to do just that. Similarly, competent C/Ses are not unwilling to tailor unique programs for pc's where appropriate.

Here is the official Grade Chart (CofS link):
http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

"Life Repair" is not on it, in those or similar words. It may be buried in the Introductory Auditing section at the bottom, one of the "routes onto the Bridge". This is described as "Introduces one to what auditing is and can do for someone, resulting in a personal reality that Scientology really works." Which is a feature, not a benefit!

I agree that a good C/S can write and get done a tailor-made program that addresses what the pc actually wants to have handled in his life (with varying results as to whether it works or not), but note that doing that is taking the pc OFF the Grade Chart, and the overall idea is to keep the pc ON the Grade Chart and moving the pc "up" it. So would it not be classed as a repair program on pink paper, something to be gotten out of the way as soon as possible so the pc can be returned to what he should "really" be doing? Hell, it's even called Life Repair.

CofS tech guys (I assume) know the datum "Auditing is for the pc", but the tacit assumption that the Grade Chart is the best possible program for the pc, whatever his attention and interest are on, conflicts wildly with this ideal.

Paul
 

Bojangels

New Member
LRH and the tech

Dear Lemuria

Im SP Delcared and happy for it, lost many freinds on that account:-(, I dont know if Im an exscientologist or what - does that mean against is all ?, I will never come back to CoS and belive DM is a covert, tiny jerk, but I have been around the tech now for 30 years, recieved many hours of auditing, been on staff, used the tech in companies with great succes and I stille belive in parts of it. Asking such a question is asking for confusion and contradiction. I dont know if you know the Data series, a great work LRH made, wich helps one to finde the truth and falsehood in any writing, you could look at them.
For eksampel, "Scientology is a Scam," Is that all the books, and each process, the tech in COS, freezone and out side beyond the FZ.

Does that mean that each win, ability gained, fear handled is also a scam, and does that mean that the greater space that I have gotten and the quiteness I have now in my mind is also a scam. OR is it just that the person who write this has treate sooooo badly that he or se cannot see this subject from its many different sides, everything is everything. Yes LRH was good, bad, great an idiot and incredible - its all there, he lost his reality sence as he wanted to "Clear a planet", and could not get it rigth, fucked it up mostly in his administrative tasks and covert operations. Sad - but to say he just did this to gain money and power, thats just stupid, if so he would have done this differntly. But LRH is not the tech and the tech is full of great data, bad false stuff and plain BS. The result shows what is what, no matter if LRH was a saint or the devil or both at the same time.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
The basic Scientology Scam is the corruption of your ability to evaluate what's a scam or not.

It's like; the opposite of information is not ignorance, but disinformation, which negates all information.

Zinj
 
Here is the official Grade Chart (CofS link):
http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

"Life Repair" is not on it, in those or similar words. It may be buried in the Introductory Auditing section at the bottom, one of the "routes onto the Bridge". This is described as "Introduces one to what auditing is and can do for someone, resulting in a personal reality that Scientology really works." Which is a feature, not a benefit!

I agree that a good C/S can write and get done a tailor-made program that addresses what the pc actually wants to have handled in his life (with varying results as to whether it works or not), but note that doing that is taking the pc OFF the Grade Chart, and the overall idea is to keep the pc ON the Grade Chart and moving the pc "up" it. So would it not be classed as a repair program on pink paper, something to be gotten out of the way as soon as possible so the pc can be returned to what he should "really" be doing? Hell, it's even called Life Repair.

CofS tech guys (I assume) know the datum "Auditing is for the pc", but the tacit assumption that the Grade Chart is the best possible program for the pc, whatever his attention and interest are on, conflicts wildly with this ideal.

Paul

Paul, are you now confused as to whether I am a "Co$ tech guy"? Do you have me confused with your former "friends", CB, LR, or Fritzie?

From my own experience I do consider the elements of the lower grade chart to be an excellent preparation for general auditing. The serfac handling, o/w's, & NED are especially valuable, when done for the pc's well-being.

As such a general program of "life repair", grades, & NED, has a lot to recommend it. This is especially so if the time is taken to run it thoroughly. It should NOT be viewed as some sort of obstacle course one must pass to get to "upper level auditing". That's just a blatant appeal to personal ego.

The fact that it is a good general program does not equate to it being "the only way". Don't allow the constant ranting of "freezone haters" on this board or elsewhere to cause you to assimilate their own mispprehensions.

Many folks in the freezone have an expansive view of auditing which sees as the focus the well-being & interest of the pc. I happen to know that you know one or two of these individuals for yourself. For such as they the tools of scientology are just that: tools to be used to suit the purposes of beings.

It's not a question of forcing a pc to fit the arbitraries of a "bridge", but using the tools of scientology to suit the individual requirements of the circumstance.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

the constant ranting of "freezone haters" on this board

-snip-

It's not "hate" but honest concern.

Scientology PR tactics are being used by some in the Freezone, and elements of the Freezone appear to also be using NLP-manipulative techniques.

And, yes, I know, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=74593&postcount=149

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=93541&postcount=26

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=93543&postcount=27
 

Muhammad

Patron
The comment made that Ron was parinoid about infultrate of the goverment agency into the church is bullshit when I was on staff at a mission there were two people who infultrated that where gov spys.I could not even image the number of CIA,FBI,Mossard,Russia etc. Had a friend in NJ who was on line in DC when Ron was there. One night he followed this bloke,low and behold he went into the russian embassay.Hell the black panthers where infultrated by the gov.Just look up COINTEL. Nobody really knows how much the gov effected Ron , check out MKULTRA,. THere are forces at work on this planet that get very upset if the apple cart get distrubed. Read the Church Committe reports ,US Sen., of his finding of his investigation of gov. agencies. His conclusion was that these agencies where to keep the status quo in place. Matter of fact there was on e agency ,can't recall the name, that was set up just to direct the other agencies. DM didn't usurp the reins of the church by himself he had lots of help.
DMs job is to bilk as many people as he can while corrupting the tech and make the tech of scn very odious to the public.

As for the tech,I have seen it work on many people. Wether he was or not sole creator of it who cares. Ron didn't work in a vacum.There is no double others created portions of the tech it only goes to reason. There are workable parts of the tech that make a person more able. Ron was not god just a man with all of man's faults and foibles. There was and is alot wrong with the church. An organization is only as good as its staff members and when it rots it starts at the head as gang green has spreed to its toes.

I never bought into the cult of personality of ron and the church. The more the church tryed to control my life the less vested I was to the point of just walking out. The church must fall its purpose has been achived and those still interested in the tech can pick up the pieces and try to put them together and carry on. The others can go to their doctor and brave new world it.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
Yea. I somehow believe that the government did infiltrate the CoS, even though people want to laugh it off. and I think that is the agenda of the higher powers that are on this planet. To make the whole thing look kooky and silly. I mean, laugh it off and pretend that psychiatry really isn't that bad. The statistics of people that have died in asylums over the past years is pretty much a genocide in itself, and these are many deaths that have nothing to do with age. But the unfortunate part is that no body hears their stories. It isn't something that is in the best interest of the media channels. After all, who is one of their abundant supporters? The pharmaceutical companies. The FDA does many shady under the table deals with these companies. The hound the little companies that could be a threat to their profit. Especially companies that selll natural products, I mean come on now,they can't put a patent on natural products, and now their trying to get their hands on making Vitamins accessible only by prescription.

Well, I have to tell you, many of the figures on my computer screen started moving really oddly after I clicked the reply button. I wouldn't be surprised if this forum is being checked out by certain people, especially after you made the implication that these guys really did infiltrate the CoS. Those suckers will send disinformation agents to this forum to cover up any truth you may have about their presence being existent in the CoS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lnJL1kp0x8
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Yea. I somehow believe that the government did infiltrate the CoS, even though people want to laugh it off. and I think that is the agenda of the higher powers that are on this planet. To make the whole thing look kooky and silly. I mean, laugh it off and pretend that psychiatry really isn't that bad. The statistics of people that have died in asylums over the past years is pretty much a genocide in itself, and these are many deaths that have nothing to do with age. But the unfortunate part is that no body hears their stories. It isn't something that is in the best interest of the media channels. After all, who is one of their abundant supporters? The pharmaceutical companies. The FDA does many shady under the table deals with these companies. The hound the little companies that could be a threat to their profit. Especially companies that selll natural products, I mean come on now,they can't put a patent on natural products, and now their trying to get their hands on making Vitamins accessible only by prescription.

Well, I have to tell you, many of the figures on my computer screen started moving really oddly after I clicked the reply button. I wouldn't be surprised if this forum is being checked out by certain people, especially after you made the implication that these guys really did infiltrate the CoS. Those suckers will send disinformation agents to this forum to cover up any truth you may have about their presence being existent in the CoS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lnJL1kp0x8

Probably the first comment under the you-tube video sums up the situation:

"This video would have been a lot better served if it didn't start out with a quote from that nut-case L. Ron Hubbard. Now I can't show it to anyone and expect to have any credibility."

This video has been around from some time, and the Hubbard quote at the beginning was tacked on by someone else.

Anyone who sees himself, or his group, as visionary and with a plan that would arouse the ire of the "powers that be," can attach his message to the beginning of this (or similar) video.

1) The message added to the front is one thing.

2) The general conspiracy-theory (or cause-effect theory) of history is another.

I'm not automatically ridiculing the latter (various theories), however I've found that arguing about them to be mostly a waste of time.

From my (somewhat dusty) hardbound autographed copy of 'None Dare Call It Conspiracy' by Gary Allen, to 'America's Sixty Families' by Ferdinand Lundberg (from the 1930s), and other more 'traditional' background texts, to various books by, and stacks of periodicals by, Lyndon LaRouche, (most, sent to me by an old friend over the years), I've been familiar with this area for a long time.

Those writings exist, separate from L. Ron Hubbard's many stories; and Hubbard's stories break down into two rough categories:

What he actually believed.

And what he wanted others to believe.

Have you read Hubbard's many letters to the FBI from the early/mid 1950s? If so, do you believe that he was approached by the KGB (Russian secret police) and told that, if he would defect, that he'd be given his own laboratory with a big expense account in the USSR? Well, this was what Hubbard told the FBI, at a time when he was trying to motivate them to convince the IRS to stop looking into his finances (repeatedly declaring bankruptcy while stuffing cash into shoe boxes, and leaving investors and creditors in the lurch) - Did Hubbard believe it? Probably not. Did he want the FBI to believe it, so they'd tell the IRS to back off, lest he defect to Russia (!) - Apparently, yes.

Hubbard's writings are full of this sort of thing: Tall tales intended to manipulate others into doing what he wanted them to do.

When Hubbard told his inner circle - in 1969 - that his 2nd wife was a secret agent named "Komkovadamanov," did he believe it? Probably not.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=79110&postcount=23

The Scientology operation, per Hubbard's design - is based on the "tight conspiracy"-model (See 'Bolivar' PL, and his many [mostly confidential] "Scientology covert Intelligence Tech" writings.) So, going back to the 1960s, Hubbard had already established Scientology on the "tight conspiracy/crime syndicate"-pattern. That was HIS idea.

Scientology, one could say, is a kind of "mini-conspiracy" - as designed by Hubbard. Many of the secret writings have been exposed, one way or another, and now it can be "decoded" and understood.
 
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