What do you think of the tech now?

[Iknowtoomuch]

I've been thinking about how and or why someone thinks that the tech works or even part of it.
Okay let's say you get "wins" with auditing, how does that actually transfer into real life you geting better? I've had wins with auditing but never saw an improvement in my life from it.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I've been thinking about how and or why someone thinks that the tech works or even part of it.
Okay let's say you get "wins" with auditing, how does that actually transfer into real life you geting better? I've had wins with auditing but never saw an improvement in my life from it.

Depends what is addressed. If your program is some generic cookie-cutter shit, then the "wins", i.e. taking charge off some area that you might not have met again for 20 years, can be rather divorced from day-to-day life.

But if what you are discharging or otherwise addressing is what you are running into every day, that sucks up your attention from what you want to be putting it on, that is different. It means you can get on with life without being distracted to such an extent.

Cookie-cutter programs suck. Auditing should address only what the individual WANTS to address.

Paul

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Depends what is addressed. If your program is some generic cookie-cutter shit, then the "wins", i.e. taking charge off some area that you might not have met again for 20 years, can be rather divorced from day-to-day life.

But if what you are discharging or otherwise addressing is what you are running into every day, that sucks up your attention from what you want to be putting it on, that is different. It means you can get on with life without being distracted to such an extent.

Cookie-cutter programs suck. Auditing should address only what the individual WANTS to address.

Paul

That makes very good sense. Then I guess one must "hang on" till you do what's really going to help you. Hopefully it isn't too far up the bridge....lol.

 

[Human Again]

Hmmm... that was loud!

Hmm, yep. I know and well I was a little embarrassed at the volume myself but when I went to edit it, I realised it felt carthartic to scream it at the top of my lungs... so... sorry if I hurt your ears. I am also now not operatingon the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" principle and all it's non-survival versions but on "if it feels good is good for me and doesn't hurt others - do it" mode.

Love the post..."the tech" sucks donkey dicks

Well, I was going to write something regarding the opening post but Human Again pretty much said it all! I couldn't have said it better!

Why thanks ODB, you know, sometimes when the question is asked the answer just arrives and demands to be said. I hope I didn't shut you down though, always open to hearing your view.

I've been thinking about how and or why someone thinks that the tech works or even part of it.
Okay let's say you get "wins" with auditing, how does that actually transfer into real life you geting better? I've had wins with auditing but never saw an improvement in my life from it.

I reckon that the "wins" are set up rather like a pay off in fiction writing. The magician, the entertainer, the authour of the movie, book, story, process etc sets up a particular "ahha" moment with preludes and then leads the person to it it clues and cliche's and "automated responses" so that they felt like they discovered it. In the screenwriting world it's called the "gap" and the "payoff" , same technique I expect. Also the peer pressure and finaicial pressure and status pressure to have those "wins" is huge. No win in your auditing? Disconnect from these people you love, accept this label of No Case Gain and PTS and maybe even Supporessive person. The human mind is wonderful at filling in the blanks... may as well fill it in with a win after all you paid alot for the opportunity and must be flawed if it didn't work and if it didn't then maybe everything youhave invested into this religionof yours is a waste and you have been misled - oh no, better to allow the "win" to be created and enjoyed.

And then there is the theory that the e-meter providing that little electro current stimulates endorphins... anyone got info on that one?

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

post deleted

 

[Lamb]

I agree with Human Again that screaming out the truth actually does feel really, really good--especially if you're admitting to yourself and the world the truth about this life, energy, soul and money sucking cult.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I've been thinking about how and or why someone thinks that the tech works or even part of it.
Okay let's say you get "wins" with auditing, how does that actually transfer into real life you geting better? I've had wins with auditing but never saw an improvement in my life from it.

I'm tempted to say then it must not have really been a win but that would probably be unfair and hurtful to those who've been in that situation.

Here are my thoughts, such as they are:

1) a lot of therapy- non Scn certainly included- centers on just feeling mo' bettah. It's not ALWAYS about going forward and leading a better life though the majority of therapy has that as its ultimate goal and it should be the ultimate goal. But along the way, sometimes just feeling happier, more connected, etc, is a desirable thing. (I'm deliberately refraining from using Scn terminology here. No need to do so.)

2) Scn is supposed to be applicable to life. It's not supposed to just be about auditing and feelin' happy. People are taught about the tone scale, using the ARC triangle, TRs- those should be used in life, every day life. Now, of course, when the cult takes over a person's life- which it tries to do to EVERYBODY- then there isn't much every day life, is there? But originally, that was the purported series of goals for the methodology.

But you might say (I speculate) yeah, ok, but what about AUDITING and its (alleged) gains? Well, one is supposed to have realizations about things like why one does certain things or is fearful or something of the sort. If a person truly had such a realization and it was genuine, that could help him or her in that situation later.

Now, before you get your briefs all in a bunch, I'm not writing this post to defend the tech or something. (this is something you and I have unfortunately discussed many times and I really don't want to get into another of those kinds of discussions with you now. I presume you saw the announcement I posted two months ago.) I'm talking about the way it supposedly works if applied. I'm not going to say it does or doesn't. I'm merely saying that, it's like the informercial about the slap/chop- the device is supposed to be the best onion chopper around and we can discusss its stated aims. Whether or not it really does do well with the onions is another very relevant but different topic. (personally I'm not madly in love with the slap/chop...heh)

So these are my thoughts on your posted question.

Gee, we haven't fought...I mean exchanged posts- in ages. Miss me much?

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Dear VC, formerly Fluffy, AKA Claire,

I agree 100% with you.

The PR far outstripped the truth.

The gains to be had from auditing, though, are enormous, given a good auditor.

I don't know how many people ever had a good auditor. Most of the people on ESMB seem to have missed the 60s and early 70s, where I had a good time.

i think there was only a very short window of Camelot like times.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Good posts Fluff and Carmelo. I was lucky enough to have a good auditor for my grades in 1990 (in the freezone) so I know there are some still out there. She was running OT7 though and probably had a lot of what Scns call "free theta"; I doubt whether your average Sea Org flunky without the same case level could have got the same results, no matter how highly trained they were.

We're still very much beginners in understanding about the mind, the things which afflict it and how to correct / heal them. Scn is one particular body of knowledge which attempts to address this; it's not the only one even in existence, never mind conceivable. Roberto Assagioli's Psychosynthesis is another one.

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

There are lots of things which can be done in scientology that give one insights, remove misconceptions , make one laugh about how silly one has been for doing certain things. These insights, realisations etc can also be obtained from other practices also. In my experience, scio gains are lesser per unit effort that some other practices that I have since engaged in. I did not experience very much gain from about OT3 on. Other earlier material was more effective.
What actually does change ones mind so that the reality one is experiencing changes, ie the continuous create or mockup that one unknowingly is generating gets unmocked to some greater or lesser degree in favour of what the person believes is a more desirable reality, is the test of any system of practice for me currently.
Seems from what I have read about others experiences, this has sometimes happened to people practicing scientology. A small percentage though. Whereas other methodologies which might share fundamentals, which are pretty universal, have a greater level of success.

This discounts the bs and baggage of the current c of s which totally distorts any of the above and possibility of gain for most it seems.

Min

 

[Human Again]

I agree with Human Again that screaming out the truth actually does feel really, really good--especially if you're admitting to yourself and the world the truth about this life, energy, soul and money sucking cult.

Ah, High there good looking - I love a poster who agrees with me! LOL! Nice to meetcha.

Natascha

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I posted earlier to say that I believe I've had benefits from the Tech (in the CofS but mostly in the freezone), and my post was ignored. May I be permitted another bite of the cherry?

Natascha, you wrote this;

"The Tech", when effective, turns people into ignorant, self-deluded egomaniacs with little regard for the rights, value and beauty in others who now accept direction to waste their money, energy, creativity and lives on overcoming barriers that do not exist, fighting imagined enemies toward a goal that is insane - Clear this sector of the Galaxy? For Fuck's sake!"

Maybe you needed to say what you did, but as an objective description of what the Tech does to people I think your comments are unfair and they're very typical of what I find when I post on ESMB.

I don't recognise that as a description of me at all. For a start, I honestly couldn't care less about clearing / saving this sector of the fucking Galaxy. I'm nowhere near wise enough to diagnose what the problem is (if there is one) or how it might be addressed. Nor was Hubbard, I believe, though it suited him to pretend otherwise.

It's my life I'm concerned with, how to live it better, and after that those I care about, animals, and the fate of our planet and its people.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Apologies to anyone who's offended by my swearing. If it's any consolation, my mum doesn't like it either. Or my godmother (though neither read this board). Sometimes though I find it's necessary (it relieves stress, for a start).

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Excellent posts, Cat's Squirrel and the swearing wasn't out of place at all!

 

[Mystic]

I can't post in this thread as I don't think about the tech any longer. What is there to think about?

 

[Veda]

What has the Tech done to you?

-snip-

Maybe you needed to say what you did, but as an objective description of what the Tech does to people I think your comments are unfair and they're very typical of what I find when I post on ESMB.

-snip-

It's my life I'm concerned with, how to live it better, and after that those I care about, animals, and the fate of our planet and its people.

To clarify, some think that you're the young woman in your avatar, when you're a guy.

That said, what do you mean by "the Tech"?

Shake off the hypnotic trance that the words "the Tech" induce in Scientologists, and think about it for a minute. Do you mean "The Tech"? as in all of "the Tech," and if not all, which parts or pieces?

Could you be specific?

P.S. The last sentence in your post might be cute if you were a naive 20 year old Miss America contestant who just did a Communications Course in an Org and just read 'New Slant on Life'.

Marylin Monroe voice: "The Tech, ooooooh"

 

[smartone]

Human Again. I concur. One hour's chat with someone willing to listen did more for me than 22 years in this mind f----- cult.

 

[smartone]

And it was free.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

To clarify, some think that you're the young woman in your avatar, when you're a guy.

So it seems. Let 'em think it, my gender isn't relevant to what I'm saying on ESMB, any more than my age, race etc. is. It happens that I'm male, but that has no relevance here.

That said, what do you mean by "the Tech"?

I think I made it clear in this post;

"Good posts Fluff and Carmelo. I was lucky enough to have a good auditor for my grades in 1990 (in the freezone) so I know there are some still out there. She was running OT7 though and probably had a lot of what Scns call "free theta"; I doubt whether your average Sea Org flunky without the same case level could have got the same results, no matter how highly trained they were.

We're still very much beginners in understanding about the mind, the things which afflict it and how to correct / heal them. Scn is one particular body of knowledge which attempts to address this; it's not the only one even in existence, never mind conceivable.... " etc.

That bit in bold there was primarily what I had in mind. Having said that, here's Human Again's original passage;

"The Tech", when effective, turns people into ignorant, self-deluded egomaniacs with little regard for the rights, value and beauty in others who now accept direction to waste their money, energy, creativity and lives on overcoming barriers that do not exist, fighting imagined enemies toward a goal that is insane - Clear this sector of the Galaxy? For Fuck's sake!"

How come she hasn't been asked to clarify her use of "the Tech" in that one? Is that clear as crystal, whereas my post (referring to the same thing) isn't? Those who cheered her for saying what she did obviously knew what she was on about, but when I refer to the Tech and say I've had benefits from it, suddenly it's all got to be explained and justified....

Can you see the double standard in that?

Shake off the hypnotic trance that the words "the Tech" induce in Scientologists, and think about it for a minute. Do you mean "The Tech"? as in all of "the Tech," and if not all, which parts or pieces?

Was Human Again specific in the comments she made? That was what I was responding to. Anyway, what I mean by the Tech is what you pay for and receive in the form of training and services in the CofS and the freezone; Life Repair, ARC S/W, the grades, New Era Dianetics, the Communication Course, PTS Rundown, audited word clearing, student hat, personal ethics course, Way to Happiness etc.

P.S. The last sentence in your post might be cute if you were a naive 20 year old Miss America contestant who just did a Communications Course in an Org and just read 'New Slant on Life'.

Marylin Monroe voice: "The Tech, ooooooh"

OK, I can live with that. What is your point?

 

[Veda]

IMO, your understanding of Scientology is incomplete and superficial. It's the understanding of a self-centered consumer.