What if it doesn't die?

[JustSheila]

...

You are quite right.

But you have stopped short in your observation. Your quote is not only true about Scientology 2016, it is true about Scientology auditing since day one.

I would agree that there are moments that auditing produced "benefits". However, those moments are engulfed, eclipsed and eradicated by the ocean of "non-beneficial" (i.e. harmful) auditing.

The proof of what I am saying is this: If auditing worked to a person's benefit (only), there would not be a 99% blow rate of Scientologists.

You are SO right, HH!

The most convincing argument against scientology is finding out that the most dedicated of all of them, those with the highest training, case levels or org positions and those with the most time spent living and breathing scientology were most often the biggest liars and scammers, the most abusive, the most selfish, the most blindly egotistical, the most self-righteous, the most arrogant, biggest jerks with the least conscience and became the least able to think for themselves.

When I was still new to Scientology, I used to see SO execs that were particularly cruel and ask around about their case levels or training levels, convinced in my head that they just had reactive minds or whatever that hadn't been handled. Then I stopped asking, because their cruelty, lying or abusing staff and individuals and endless excuses for such behavior seemed to be directly related to 'time in Scientology.' These were the 'OT's', these were the highly trained.

Fact is, they never got better. They never got nicer, they never got more understanding or humane. They became increasingly more stupid, unable to see past canned Hubbardism phrases and ridiculous solutions and understand org problems, and completely stopped understanding human relationship problems. The longer one stays in scientology, the meaner one gets. The longer one is out, the more humane and understanding one gets.



We can graph this.

 

[Terril park]

...




You are quite right.

But you have stopped short in your observation. Your quote is not only true about Scientology 2016, it is true about Scientology auditing since day one.

I would agree that there are moments that auditing produced "benefits". However, those moments are engulfed, eclipsed and eradicated by the ocean of "non-beneficial" (i.e. harmful) auditing.

The proof of what I am saying is this: If auditing worked to a person's benefit (only), there would not be a 99% blow rate of Scientologists.

[snip]

I broadly agree with most of your remarks, at least re CO$.
my experience in the early days [post 1965] is that one could
get excellent auditing. Same in the FZ.

For much of my time in CO$ I had no harmful auditing. Except
the last action a CCRD where the C/S tried to convince me I wasn't
clear. I convinced her otherwise and never returned to CO$. Much of the time the auditing and C/Sing wasn't relevant and niether beneficial or
harmful. My 3 years on staff did no bridge auditing as I was C/Sed for
survival rundown. However I'd interned on objectives delivered them recieved them drilled them was drilled on them on 3 different courses.
At least the last time I was protesting. You won't find me running to
flag to do them again.

Met several who had to endure 5 CCRDs.

So all sorts of problems delivering auditing. On top of all that
its a refined high skill not easily learned.

 

[JustSheila]

Met several who had to endure 5 CCRDs.

So all sorts of problems delivering auditing. On top of all that
its a refined high skill not easily learned.

Yes, such a highly developed skill. How do I evaluate for the pc and retrain him into believing fantasies are real and yet let him think he's actually coming up with these things on his own and this is 'self-determinism'? Takes skill, mon.

Let's take that good old Auditor's Code line, 'NEVER EVALUATE FOR THE PRECLEAR.' Except there are so many exceptions to its application, i.e.:

1) Make sure to have your Preclear read, star-rate and clay demo 'All illness is caused by PTSness.' Not that that's evaluative or anything, but from now on, he is not to accept that any accident or illness is accidental or physical. There are SPs all over the place and they're directly responsible for every bad thing that ever happened to him.

2) The emeter is always right. Help the preclear see this by pointing out 'this' 'that' or the other thing on the meter when he has thoughts and ensure he knows that it is the meter that will determine when he F/Ns or not, so the stray thoughts on the meter are far more important than what the preclear thinks is important. Sessions won't be ended until that meter shows an F/N, even if he has to make stuff up to get there. Not that it's evaluative, because the meter isn't evaluative and you aren't cause you're an auditor so it's okay.

3) Completely control him through repetitive process like Objectives. Then don't let him stop the process until he gets so bored, annoyed and spaced out about it that he becomes delusional and tells you when you're controlling him, it's really him controlling himself. Now you've got him completely under your thumb and he can attest. Accepting anything else isn't evaluative at all cause Elron said that's the EP so he's not allowed to have any other EP. That's how the process works and Elron said so and that means it's not evaluative.

4) If the pc has a disagreement, don't allow it. Send him to ethics, give him auditing or wordclear him. This isn't evaluation because Elron says it isn't and cause you're an auditor and don't evaluate.

Hoo boy. I can't believe you can hold all these contradictions in your head without it blowing up. What a scrambled mess.

 

[Some Random Guy]

On top of all that
its a refined high skill not easily learned.

I tend to steer clear of refined things these days, like refined sugars and refined foods. In the short term, they give you indigestion. In the long term, they can give inflammation, arthritis, heart disease,dementia and a slow painful death.

I have added $cientology to the list of things to avoid too, including $cientology Lite aka The Freezone.

 

[Operating DB]

I wonder how many people would take, or continue to take, auditing if they realized that what an auditor attempts to audit out of the pc, comes not from the mind of the pc, but from the mind of the auditor.

Or perhaps more precisely the mind of l. ron hubbard.

 

[Gizmo]

"By their actions you shall know them, whether bad or good, whether on another side or ours.

And what in their actions gives us the keenest insight? Their ability to help."

-- HCOB 28 MAY 1960


And why does Scientology not deliver what it promised? Part of the reason is that it promised too much -- made claims it could not deliver on. Another reason is that The Man was pushing back. And another reason is that Hubbard, wanting to create an OT army, sacrificed quality for quantity and speed, and ruined everything as a result.

Helena

Isn't that an assumption there was something worthwhile to begin with ?

The comparison of the Flat Earth Society to the cult of scn only works on the level of that are both flat assed wrong.

Some mention " man as a spirit ". Jesus Christ folks THAT was KNOWN, how many THOUSANDS of YEARS before dear old hubbie stole that notion ?

Please, man as a spiritual being was around long before hubbie & the scn cult has no exclusive grasp on that !

Most people would - tongue in cheek - say the scn cult has about 40,000 active members - never mind they claim 8 MILLION.

Is there even one person here is willing to say the cult of scn has lost significant numbers of follows ?

Some people here seem to skip that the 'net has brought us the ' Age of Information ' & the available of people posting information about the reality of the cult while some may not believe is killing the cult - can anyone here argue it is one serious bloodletting ?

It may not die ( right yet ) but is damn sure getting rapidly crippled.

I doubt my grandchildren will know much - if anything - about the little cult that got slaughtered by public opinion - and went down for the count.

 

[JustSheila]

The thread title is ace!

WHAT IF IT DOESN'T DIE?

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

Hoo boy. I can't believe you can hold all these contradictions in your head without it blowing up. What a scrambled mess.

What is more interesting to me is that he can retain those contradictions after they have been pointed out repeatedly.

What is it about a person's mind that allows them to view the world in this way?

For much of my time in CO$ I had no harmful auditing.

Has it occurred to you that auditing may have harmed in in ways which you are unable to see at the time and are unable to see now?

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

Think of the church as a terminally ill patient. Now if that patient had very little money, the disease would finish him off quicker due to his inability to buy top dollar medical care.

But the church has heaps of cash and can buy life support even though the end result is not favorable for the church.

This is the best metaphor I've seen in quite a while.

I see it as inevitable that the church will die but it won't go out with a BANG! ........... but with a whimper.

I fear that you may be right, but of course I hope you are not.

For me the only main hope is for a flap so great that all the kings lawyers and all the king's henchmen cannot put back together again. Although having followed the OJ Simpson trial, this seems unlikely.

 

[Enthetan]

Here is some "science" about the lifespan of Scientology.

Evil will never be destroyed - ever. Unless the planet blows up than " game over " and no one knows what happens to our spirits

Scientology is Evil

Evil needs a place to land and flourish. Scientology provides the place for it to prosper.

Scientologist's start out good but eventually become evil if they stay in too long and participate in the crimes.

I realized one of the most henious side effects of Scientology was what it did to inflate my ego. It did nothing for my spiritual progress overall except put it in a state of "confusion".

Scientology feeds the ego whilst convincing people they are helping their spiritual well being

Once a Scientologist crosses that line and contributes to the motion of the criminal policies and activities - they will die to be right and Keep Scientology Working!

They will lie, steal, extort, bribe, abuse and neglect members to be right

Scientology will always be around. It will continue to shrink but the large real estate portfolio David Miscavige emassed during his dictatorship - will be sold off to pay the bills. It will operate out of shopping strip centers and people's homes.

It had it's hay day and it is over. Due to the viciousness of Scientology - it will never grow and it will never prosper

When Miscavige drops his body to be with Ron - some other nut case will take over.

It's the tech!

As you note, evil is inherent in Scientology.

Some decades ago, a book came out "The True Believer" by Eric_Hoffer, which explains the phenomenon, which is common in a lot of belief systems.

Once you have something which promises a reward of infinite value ("total freedom", "Paradise", Utopia, whatever), then ANY price can be justified to achieve it. In the pursuit of "infinite good", any "short term" evil can be justified (unless the belief system explicitly excludes using evil means) in order to achieve the "greater good".

It's common to Scientology, Islam, Communism, and other systems.

 

[Terril park]

Has it occurred to you that auditing may have harmed in in ways which you are unable to see at the time and are unable to see now?

Well I'll get to that eventually. Right now I have the more pressing problem of the Fairies at the bottom of my garden.

Have they been casting malevolent spells against me?

 

[F.Bullbait]

If it never dies, you're in deep zoo doo...

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

As you note, evil is inherent in Scientology.

Some decades ago, a book came out "The True Believer" by Eric_Hoffer, which explains the phenomenon, which is common in a lot of belief systems.

Once you have something which promises a reward of infinite value ("total freedom", "Paradise", Utopia, whatever), then ANY price can be justified to achieve it. In the pursuit of "infinite good", any "short term" evil can be justified (unless the belief system explicitly excludes using evil means) in order to achieve the "greater good".

It's common to Scientology, Islam, Communism, and other systems.

As Daniel Dennett asked is it a fluke? whats in it for the ant ?
Keep climbing that blade of grass errrrrrrrrrr I mean bridge to total freekdom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsTJezsnK0c

 

[Orglodyte 2]

The Bunker is all about the shrinkage today. Rinder's blog has stunning photos of the Basel Org. Looks like the Chernobyl Ideal Org.

I think the half-life is shortening.

 

[Hypatia]

I'm still gobsmacked at the lack of governmental intervention. People have told the police, the fbi, the justice system- that there's actual slavery going on and yet nothing is done. Other cults have been raided in the past.

I'm pissed off. I don't want da cherch to just go away. I want to see them taken down in disgrace.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

If it never dies, you're in deep zoo doo...

That's great!

Which begs the question: Do they keep people's PC and other folders after they die indefinitely, hoping that they can be used when they pick up another body or as an insurance policy against any potential residual negative PR or litigation?

Which takes us to another question: What will happen to all of those files as orgs are shuttered and the elite entourage retreat to the Bahamas? Will they be abandoned in basements and warehouses all over the world for homeless people and contractors to rummage through?

 

[Operating DB]

That's great!

Which begs the question: Do they keep people's PC and other folders after they die indefinitely, hoping that they can be used when they pick up another body or as an insurance policy against any potential residual negative PR or litigation?

Which takes us to another question: What will happen to all of those files as orgs are shuttered and the elite entourage retreat to the Bahamas? Will they be abandoned in basements and warehouses all over the world for homeless people and contractors to rummage through?

View attachment 12329

Answer: See Helluvahoax's avatar.

 

[David C Gibbons]

Wow, I never considered what happens to anyone's PC folders when their org or mission or Flag is shuttered. I suspect (given the trajectory and the culture of Scientology) that the PC folders will be shoveled into dumpsters when the Scientology organizations are evicted from their buildings.

Would they be vindictive enough to turn over incriminating folders to the authorities? The real question might be the one about how Miscavage or his lackeys think they might get money through the use of the information in those folders.

One thing for sure: pastoral counseling confidentiality means nothing to the people who control organized Scientology.

What a vile little cult Scientology is...

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

I don't know HH. You are using a nonstandard graph to plot out Scientology's unprecedented expansion. Weird....

Mimsey

HH's graphs would have been much more convincing interspersed with video of horses at a racetrack.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

Well I'll get to that eventually. Right now I have the more pressing problem of the Fairies at the bottom of my garden.

Have they been casting malevolent spells against me?

If the tech works, then there are definitely fairies at the bottom of your garden.