What is Idenics?

[Vinaire]

Mike wrote: "From the viewpoint of a Scientologist they CAN'T SEE what I'm doing."

And I sure have been trying! I had to form a new mental template for Idenics. Perhaps if one had a background in Eastern approaches to spiritual development then they would already have a place in their mind for the philosophy behind Idenics.

This is the first time I have heard of Idenics. So far I have read both the series by Mike Goldstein (who I remember very well from Flagship Apollo). Upon reading basic Idenics principles, I feel the same excitement that I felt when I first read DMSMH. Simplicity has tremendous power. I shall now be looking into Idenics more thoroughly.

Vinaire

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[Vinaire]

I've heard good things about Idenics.

I'm running it through various analytical tests. Is there something wrong with that?

LRH always said that results were the important thing, right?

When did the results of auditing become so delicate?

Why not put them to the test of pragmatic reality?

When did the illusions of the pc become so precious?

Did you get the product, in the physical universe, or not?

All auditing should be put to that test, shouldn't it?

If I'm wrong, tell me specifically why, and I will consider it.

Otherwise, testing things, questioning things, as LRH originally beseeched us to do, will be what I will continue to do.

And can you possibly put some hair gel on your head to keep it from poking me in the eye?

I think there nothing wrong with examining something analytically. That is exactly what I am doing re Idenics at the moment.

I was simply jarred by your unanalytic and invalidative approach, Alanzo.

Did you get to talk to Richh by the way, since he gave you his phone number?

Have you read any of the Idenics materials available on the Idenics website?

Does the principles underlying Idenics make sense to you?

I would love to hear your analysis so far.

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[Headend]

 

[Headend]

About 2 ½ years ago I had my first Idenics session with Mike which was free, I think he still gives a free session to new clients. At the time I was under going a mild for of chemo therapy & doing it pretty tough. The session lasted 30-40 minutes with quite dramatic results. For 2-3 weeks afterwards I experienced life close to it’s best, my tolerance levels & ability to accept life without effort was amazing. If you’ve never experienced life in serenity I highly recommend it, those you come in contact with will really appreciate it too.

Since then I’ve had another 15 hours or so, always with good results, often spectacular. One I described to a friend as sitting in the lap of God & that he was happier to have me there than I was to be there, all with an incredible sense of peace & safety. Of course I was sitting in my own lap but he wouldn’t have been able to grasp that. This session was at a time when I had been incredibly enturbulated for days, needless to say after the session I wasn’t.

The above highlights what I’ve come to realise is significant aspect of Idenics & one of the main reasons it is so spectacular & universally applicable. What is run is determined by the client, the practitioner has no agenda, no opinion, isn’t trying to work the client out in anyway. This makes for an incredibly safe space for the client to look at whatever is troubling them. It’s that space that allows the transformation. I trust no one else like I trust Mike.

Recently I’ve been having a session or 2 every week with Mike & below are some comments I sent in emails to an ex-scn friend;

“I've had the most amazing periods of serenity & peace lately that I couldn't begin to describe. Words like peace, tranquillity & Being come closest.

The big realisation has been that thought is not personal but rather the product of the mind & it becomes dysfunctional when I personalise it i.e. I think, I feel, my thoughts, my feelings. Thoughts are like anything in the physical world they come & go, they change, they are not permanent.

Any sense of self derived from thought, thoughts of what I have done or will do, knowledge or skills that I have added to the mind are all part of the physical universe & therefore have no permanency or lasting effect. So the mind made self is really a fictitious sense of self. No lasting peace & satisfaction can be found in the mind or the physical universe. This seems all but impossible to grasp with the mind, it can only be felt. This seems to be a major break through”.

And this:

“I had a session with Mike this morning it was a grinding drawn out one that seemed to be going nowhere. Mike even seemed lost for a second or 2, then he directed me to something based on a comment I gave him & I kid you not I line charged for 10-15 minutes. I’ve line charged before but never like this, I've never laughed so much or so hard in my life, anyway I'm in a great place right now.

An Scn C/S would have crammed him for Q&Aing with something the PC said. Proves the point for me that processing should be directed at what the PC is sitting in right now”.

I sent this to Mike today:

“The benefits of our recent sessions are often very subtle, peace & serenity don't hit you very hard. My current level of acceptance is quite amazing, in particular my inner state. It's amazing how quickly this will change if all resistance is completely dropped & it's accepted without effort”.

Knowing yourself as that peace & serenity is a truly liberating experience & is the true self. With Mike’s help that knowing continues to deepen, in fact it seems to have no end. Sadly for Mike’s bank account I may not need his help any longer but knowing Mike as I do nothing would make him happier.

Pete

 

[Vinaire]

This is beautiful. Very well done to you and Mike.

.

 

[beyond_horizons]

I've always been of the opinion that scientologists are the last people on earth and the least qualified to be messing with people's head space.

And since it's pretty much a given who the king of the crap trap was and whose implants in others continue to fester and manifest, Mike's lessons learned and approach to getting one to subtract for themselves the accumulated additives, without adding more crap, is worthy of a look see in itself.

http://www.idenics.com/commons/additives.htm

IMHO

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

About 2 ½ years ago I had my first Idenics session with Mike which was free, I think he still gives a free session to new clients. At the time I was under going a mild for of chemo therapy & doing it pretty tough. The session lasted 30-40 minutes with quite dramatic results. For 2-3 weeks afterwards I experienced life close to it’s best, my tolerance levels & ability to accept life without effort was amazing. If you’ve never experienced life in serenity I highly recommend it, those you come in contact with will really appreciate it too.

Since then I’ve had another 15 hours or so, always with good results, often spectacular. One I described to a friend as sitting in the lap of God & that he was happier to have me there than I was to be there, all with an incredible sense of peace & safety. Of course I was sitting in my own lap but he wouldn’t have been able to grasp that. This session was at a time when I had been incredibly enturbulated for days, needless to say after the session I wasn’t.

The above highlights what I’ve come to realise is significant aspect of Idenics & one of the main reasons it is so spectacular & universally applicable. What is run is determined by the client, the practitioner has no agenda, no opinion, isn’t trying to work the client out in anyway. This makes for an incredibly safe space for the client to look at whatever is troubling them. It’s that space that allows the transformation. I trust no one else like I trust Mike.

Recently I’ve been having a session or 2 every week with Mike & below are some comments I sent in emails to an ex-scn friend;

“I've had the most amazing periods of serenity & peace lately that I couldn't begin to describe. Words like peace, tranquillity & Being come closest.

The big realisation has been that thought is not personal but rather the product of the mind & it becomes dysfunctional when I personalise it i.e. I think, I feel, my thoughts, my feelings. Thoughts are like anything in the physical world they come & go, they change, they are not permanent.

Any sense of self derived from thought, thoughts of what I have done or will do, knowledge or skills that I have added to the mind are all part of the physical universe & therefore have no permanency or lasting effect. So the mind made self is really a fictitious sense of self. No lasting peace & satisfaction can be found in the mind or the physical universe. This seems all but impossible to grasp with the mind, it can only be felt. This seems to be a major break through”.

And this:

“I had a session with Mike this morning it was a grinding drawn out one that seemed to be going nowhere. Mike even seemed lost for a second or 2, then he directed me to something based on a comment I gave him & I kid you not I line charged for 10-15 minutes. I’ve line charged before but never like this, I've never laughed so much or so hard in my life, anyway I'm in a great place right now.

An Scn C/S would have crammed him for Q&Aing with something the PC said. Proves the point for me that processing should be directed at what the PC is sitting in right now”.

I sent this to Mike today:

“The benefits of our recent sessions are often very subtle, peace & serenity don't hit you very hard. My current level of acceptance is quite amazing, in particular my inner state. It's amazing how quickly this will change if all resistance is completely dropped & it's accepted without effort”.

Knowing yourself as that peace & serenity is a truly liberating experience & is the true self. With Mike’s help that knowing continues to deepen, in fact it seems to have no end. Sadly for Mike’s bank account I may not need his help any longer but knowing Mike as I do nothing would make him happier.

Pete

Very well done to you and Mike and I am very curious to see how far Idenics can take someone in terms of clearing and beyond.

 

[Colleen K. Peltomaa]

I've heard good things about Idenics.

I'm running it through various analytical tests. Is there something wrong with that?

LRH always said that results were the important thing, right?

When did the results of auditing become so delicate?

Why not put them to the test of pragmatic reality?

When did the illusions of the pc become so precious?

Did you get the product, in the physical universe, or not?

All auditing should be put to that test, shouldn't it?

If I'm wrong, tell me specifically why, and I will consider it.

Otherwise, testing things, questioning things, as LRH originally beseeched us to do, will be what I will continue to do.

And can you possibly put some hair gel on your head to keep it from poking me in the eye?

Experiencing things is great fun too, especially since Mike makes himself very available and gives free sessions.

 

[Smitty]

Hi Pete,
You are doing good looking! I have had great life changes resulting from Idenics as well.
Best regards,
Smitty

 

[Headend]

Thank you all for your kind comments.

For some time now my path has moved further & further away from the Scn idea of strengthening the individual self & conquering the MEST universe. The traditional eastern approach of recognizing the falseness of the egoic mind made self & recognising the true self that lies beyond the mind seems more accurate. It would seem that the true self can’t be discovered or understood by the mind and can only be experienced.

For me the correct goal is to know & experience this true self not to conquer the MEST universe by more solidly becoming an individual with OT powers. For me this can have no result other than to further entrap one in an illusory game. Maybe you can tell yourself a nicer story about being a winner in a bigger game but that would seem pointless if you’re still stuck inside the game.

Almost anyone who has had any auditing/processing delivered by a competent practitioner will be familiar with ending a session and noticing they are very much in PT & that the sky seems bluer & the grass is greener. It is this pure awareness without thought that is the true self. The ego usually pretty quickly comes in & wants to say “I did that”. If this is accepted without question the experience soon ends & one becomes lost in thought once again.

Hubbard was right to look to the mind as the problem but he was wrong to break it into somatic, reactive & analytical sections. The whole mind is the problem in particular the personalisation of thought. Thoughts of who & what I am, a story in the head we can tell ourselves about what we did or what was done to us. If you look at it this it is just a story, is that all you are a story? I hope not.

Mike has been able to assist me to raise my awareness to the point that I can truly begin to experience the wholeness of myself & life.

A very wise man replied when asked what his secret was, “I don’t mind what happens”. I think that was J. Krishnamurti, in other words he didn’t take it personally. There is no one who explains all this better than Eckhart Tolle.

Pete

 

[Vinaire]

I always looked at Scientology data from the Eastern viewpoint. I never looked at an OT State as strengthening the ego and "conquering" the MEST universe.

This way of looking at Scientology is new to me.

.

 

[lionheart]

LRH was a very MEST-oriented person.

MEST was his problem (read his admissions) and the OT levels were his solution to the problem.

He largly saw OT as an ability to control MEST (knock people's hats off, occupy other and multiple bodies, move objects at a distance, etc etc.)

He even defined OT as the ability to make things go right! How MESTy is that?

Headend's experiences with Idenics resonate well with me. I had a free session with Mike and it was very good. My own route has not included Idenics, but I think for ex-Scientologists it could be of great benefit.

 

[Vinaire]

LRH was a very MEST-oriented person.

MEST was his problem (read his admissions) and the OT levels were his solution to the problem.

He largly saw OT as an ability to control MEST (knock people's hats off, occupy other and multiple bodies, move objects at a distance, etc etc.)

He even defined OT as the ability to make things go right! How MESTy is that?

Headend's experiences with Idenics resonate well with me. I had a free session with Mike and it was very good. My own route has not included Idenics, but I think for ex-Scientologists it could be of great benefit.

OK. So that was LRH. Who are you?

You will perceive things in your own image.

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[lionheart]

OK. So that was LRH. Who are you?

You will perceive things in your own image.

.

Is that something that Ron told you was true?

Who am I? Well I'll answer the auditing question! Best answered by saying what I'm not, I'm not LRH, I'm not Lionheart, I'm not this body, I'm not these words.

I'm not a "who". I'm not a "what". I'm not an outpoint. I'm not a Policy, Bulletin or "case".

Who am I? I am everything and nothing, I am here and there, I am now.

Thanks.

 

[Vinaire]

Is that something that Ron told you was true?

Who am I? Well I'll answer the auditing question! Best answered by saying what I'm not, I'm not LRH, I'm not Lionheart, I'm not this body, I'm not these words.

I'm not a "who". I'm not a "what". I'm not an outpoint. I'm not a Policy, Bulletin or "case".

Who am I? I am everything and nothing, I am here and there, I am now.

Thanks.

Why are you stuck on Ron?

Why don't you think for yourself?

Why are you just reacting to what Ron said about this universe?

.

 

[lionheart]

Why are you stuck on Ron?

Why don't you think for yourself?

Why are you just reacting to what Ron said about this universe?

.

It is you who say I am. You actually don't know me!

How do you know I am stuck?
How do you know I don't think for myself?
How do you know I am just reacting?

Every one of those questions of yours was an evaluation, you naughty squirrel!

I'm glad you were never my auditor!

This is a message board for ex-scientologists to discuss Scn. It would be a bit wierd if the things I posted were not about Ron and Scn!!

 

[Vinaire]

It is you who say I am. You actually don't know me!

How do you know I am stuck?
How do you know I don't think for myself?
How do you know I am just reacting?

Everyone of those questions of yours was an evaluation, you naughty squirrel!

I'm glad you were never my auditor!

This is a message board for ex-scientologists to discuss Scn. It would be a bit wierd if the things I posted were not about Ron and Scn!!

I know from evaluating the content and tone level of your posts.

I don't say the same thing about many others on ESMB who seem to be much more relaxed, and can have, or not have, Ron. In other words, some have moved beyond Ron and they can critique his work rationally, both pro and con.

By the way, I am not auditing you.

I am just a lowly word clearer.

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[lionheart]

I know from evaluating the content and tone level of your posts.

I don't say the same thing about many others on ESMB who seem to be much more relaxed, and can have, or not have, Ron. In other words, some have moved beyond Ron and they can critique his work rationally, both pro and con.

By the way, I am not auditing you.

I am just a lowly word clearer.

.

In that case you haven't read my posts!

Of course it is a Scientology failing to "evaluate" according to Scn blinkers and make assumptions about people.

I have been one of Ron's and Scientology's staunchest defenders and severest critics in my posts. But I am not blinded to his failings.

In our day we always justified CofS outnesses as being because LRH didn't really know what was going on. After the 82 madness, over years, I finally relised that old Ronnie, my friend, was responsible for all the nuttiness. It took years to unblinker myself.

Now, these days, I see people blaming DM and apparently perhaps not realising the present nuttiness still comes from "source". So I often post reminders of the source of the nuttiness. It is your mis-interpretation to assume this indicates I am not relaxed and can have or not have Ron.

You are simply doing what Scn is particulalry bad at doing which is jumping to incorrect conclusions with incomplete evidence.

A few posts from me does NOT tell you my tone level or my "case" state as regards LRH.

Er, your question "who are you?" is the most auditing question I can imagine! I certainly don't think it is word clearing! But for the sake of clarity, let me explain that I didn't mind your question - I thought it was funny!

Just out of interest, what tone level did you think my earlier post about Headend, Idenics, LRH and MEST (the one that started this squabble) was?

 

[Vinaire]

In that case you haven't read my posts!

Of course it is a Scientology failing to "evaluate" according to Scn blinkers and make assumptions about people.

I have been one of Ron's and Scientology's staunchest defenders and severest critics in my posts. But I am not blinded to his failings.

In our day we always justified CofS outnesses as being because LRH didn't really know what was going on. After the 82 madness, over years, I finally relised that old Ronnie, my friend, was responsible for all the nuttiness. It took years to unblinker myself.

Now, these days, I see people blaming DM and apparantly perhaps not realising the present nuttiness still comes from "source". So I often post reminders of the source of the nuttiness. It is your mis-interpretation to assume this indicates I am not relaxed and can have or not have Ron.

You are simply doing what Scn is particulalry bad at doing which is jumping to incorrect conclusions with incomplete evidence.

A few posts from me does NOT tell you my tone level or my "case" state as regards LRH.

Er, your question "who are you?" is the most auditing question I can imagine! I certainly don't think it is word clearing! But for the sake of clarity, let me explain that I didn't mind your question - I thought it was funny!

Just out of interest, what tone level did you think my earlier post about Headend, Idenics, LRH and MEST (the one that started this lsquabble) was?

Sorry! I am simply looking beyond Ron to whole track of knowledge back to the Vedas.

I think I have failed to get that viewpoint duplicated.

.

 

[lionheart]

Vin,

Just because you say you are not auditing me does not mean that you are not asking auditing questions. You ask at least four major auditing questions, also with a code break attached to them (eval and inval).

It was a bad habit in scn to ask auditing questions out of session and use them to introvert, evaluate and invalidate in order to control.

It's worth noting that in idenics (the subject of this thread) Mike makes a valiant attempt to avoid falling into such bad scientology habits.