What is OSA really like today?

[Lulu Belle]

I was a Sea Org member for many years. Though I didn't work for OSA, I was often physically located near OSA. I knew people who worked for OSA. Berthed with OSA US and OSA Int staff, etc.

My viewpoiint on OSA is a lot different than a lot of people's.

First of all, most OSA staff don't become OSA staff because of some internal drive to spy on and destroy people. They generally wind up there the same way other people wind up in other orgs. OSA looks for people who are "paper qual'd" (meet a written list of qualifications) for the org. The biggest qual I recall that makes it different than other middle management orgs is that you can't have anything in your background that you could be blackmailed for. Other than that, I believe the qual's are faily standard. Similar to HCO quals, but not as stringent.

Most of the OSA staff I knew were your basic paper pushing admin type staff. They weren't particularly fanatical or foaming at the mouth type people. Like most Sea Org staff, they didn't leave the building much. They certainly weren't running around spying on people. They probably spent their time trying to get POs approved through FP for outside PIs to spy on people, but they weren't doing it themselves.

Much of what they did that I knew about was: doing paperwork for the legal department and lawyers like Moxon and Kobrin. Accumulating data for investigations. Accumulating data on "Scientology in the media"; doing handlings on bad press when possible. Writing PR releases. Producing PR publications like Freedom Magazine.

The staff had a tough time. They worked a lot of long hours. Every time there was a big legal flap, or a big lawsuit was lost, they'd get an ethics mission. Staff were constantly being kicked out as "unqualified" during one of these missions and traded to a service org or some other kind of org. These staff would be replaced often by young clueless Sea Org members. Qual'd on paper but without the knowledge and experience to be effective in actually doing anything.

I look at what I imagine the situation to be now. A small overwhelmed org with young, inexperienced staff. Trying to deal with the current world of Scientology criticism. The internet, newsgroups, blogs, Tom Cruise's bad press, Travolta's bad press. Hundreds, if not thousands, of ex staff and ex Scientologists. All of who are "potential threats."

Believe it or not, they have my sympthy. Wouldn't want to be there myself.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Peace.

 

[chuckbeatty]

I was a Sea Org member for many years. Though I didn't work for OSA, I was often physically located near OSA. I knew people who worked for OSA. Berthed with OSA US and OSA Int staff, etc.

snip

OSA looks for people who are "paper qual'd" (meet a written list of qualifications) for the org. The biggest qual I recall that makes it different than other middle management orgs is that you can't have anything in your background that you could be blackmailed for. Other than that, I believe the qual's are faily standard. Similar to HCO quals, but not as stringent.

Most of the OSA staff I knew were your basic paper pushing admin type staff. They weren't particularly fanatical or foaming at the mouth type people. Like most Sea Org staff, they didn't leave the building much. They certainly weren't running around spying on people. They probably spent their time trying to get POs approved through FP for outside PIs to spy on people, but they weren't doing it themselves.

Much of what they did that I knew about was: doing paperwork for the legal department and lawyers like Moxon and Kobrin. Accumulating data for investigations. Accumulating data on "Scientology in the media"; doing handlings on bad press when possible. Writing PR releases. Producing PR publications like Freedom Magazine.

The staff had a tough time. They worked a lot of long hours. Every time there was a big legal flap, or a big lawsuit was lost, they'd get an ethics mission. Staff were constantly being kicked out as "unqualified" during one of these missions and traded to a service org or some other kind of org. These staff would be replaced often by young clueless Sea Org members. Qual'd on paper but without the knowledge and experience to be effective in actually doing anything.

I look at what I imagine the situation to be now. A small overwhelmed org with young, inexperienced staff. Trying to deal with the current world of Scientology criticism. The internet, newsgroups, blogs, Tom Cruise's bad press, Travolta's bad press. Hundreds, if not thousands, of ex staff and ex Scientologists. All of who are "potential threats."

Believe it or not, they have my sympthy. Wouldn't want to be there myself.

I totally agree. Your views I think should rise to the top of the list about staff in the HGB, the two floors OSA has offices on, I was there in 2003, March 29, my very last moments in the Sea Org. I've seen OSA staff up close, and many are or were friends and acquaintances. Very likable people in normal circumstances.

The simplicity of how people can be turned to do incorrect authoritarian acts against themselves and others, is contained in some of the principles in the Milgram experiment: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/milgram_perils_authority_1974.html

Look at Dan Garvin's posts, he's getting close to graduating and getting his physics degree from university and then he'll have some time to post more.

He's a perfect example of your point! You got it right.

We need ex OSA staff like Neil O'Reiley to do their memoirs, or Kurt Weiland, or Lynn Farney and his wife, and THAT would be interesting to see if they can mentally trace the steps they went through to condone and order and chaperone and orchestrate the counter-attack methods (the old GO stuff still on the books, written today into the OSA Network Bulletins which Jacqueline Kevanar and Trish Allen compiled, and those two also I hope someday go public on that compilation work they did for the history books), that OSA does today.

Only a few in OSA are privy to the bad stuff. The auditors and tech people who do the folder work digging up the PC and Ethics Folder stuff, those people too, some of the compartmented jobs of people who have to rumage through and keep up the ethics files on all the members, my former wife, she was able to do the old "route don't read" routine, and stay somewhat apart from the bad stuff, but simply file the reports in the files,and then the Legal Bureau people under Lynn Farney, and the PI managing people like Neil O'Reiley, and whoever does that today, it might be the PI stuff goes right to Warren McShane in RTC, where Warren was still as of 2006, and Warren might be the one who hears all the bad stuff, and orchestrates any current bad stuff if they are still doing it.

Rank and file OSA aren't in on it, except from their compartmented specialty jobs that cross the bad stuff that OSA accumulates on its "enemies."

The LRH orders to the GO were all carefully gone through, and Jacqueline Kevanar on the OSA Network Issues compilations project selected and maintained for posterity putting into the OSA NW bulletins much of that old LRH stuff to the GO.

Needed are ex OSA participants who can tell the little details of to what extent the old negative LRH GO orders are still being done.

Thanks for your excellent thoughts!

 

[Lulu Belle]

I totally agree. Your views I think should rise to the top of the list about staff in the HGB, the two floors OSA has offices on, I was there in 2003, March 29, my very last moments in the Sea Org. I've seen OSA staff up close, and many are or were friends and acquaintances. Very likable people in normal circumstances.

The simplicity of how people can be turned to do incorrect authoritarian acts against themselves and others, is contained in some of the principles in the Milgram experiment: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/milgram_perils_authority_1974.html

Look at Dan Garvin's posts, he's getting close to graduating and getting his physics degree from university and then he'll have some time to post more.

He's a perfect example of your point! You got it right.

Dan is actually a very good example of a "typical" OSA staff member. Nothing particularly flamboyant about him. A regular guy you would have in any business office.

Pretty much all the OSA staff I knew personally were like that. If there were any that were "fanatics", they either didn't exhibit those traits when they were in their berthing or eating in the galley. Or I just didn't know them.

 

[Alan]

Only a few in OSA are privy to the bad stuff. The auditors and tech people who do the folder work digging up the PC and Ethics Folder stuff, those people too, some of the compartmented jobs of people who have to rumage through and keep up the ethics files on all the members, my former wife, she was able to do the old "route don't read" routine, and stay somewhat apart from the bad stuff, but simply file the reports in the files,and then the Legal Bureau people under Lynn Farney, and the PI managing people like Neil O'Reiley, and whoever does that today, it might be the PI stuff goes right to Warren McShane in RTC, where Warren was still as of 2006, and Warren might be the one who hears all the bad stuff, and orchestrates any current bad stuff if they are still doing it.

Rank and file OSA aren't in on it, except from their compartmented specialty jobs that cross the bad stuff that OSA accumulates on its "enemies."

Needed are ex OSA participants who can tell the little details of to what extent the old negative LRH GO orders are still being done.

Don't forget the auditors and ethics folks that deal with the X-File Pc's.....The X-File pc's have no names.....their deeds are written in code.

Alan
________

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I had a friend who worked for OSA (though I didn't). After 9/11 attacks (same morning), I was chatting with him and he had a LOT of information about the attack. Who did it, why, how. He told me that OSA keeps up with those kinds of things and they knew all about it right away. He laughed it off. (WOG public took years to get the same info he already had)

Peace.

What? What information did he tell you on that morning that "wog public" took years to get the same 'info"? I'd be interested to hear what "osa" thought

As for OSA "keeps up with those kinds of things" - huh? Since when? It isn't part of the policies - so how would they be doing this? Or did this person suddenly start revealing how it was all a 'plot' by the 12 international bankers?

 

[Emma]

Hi Mick,

Welcome to the board

It's good to see you.

Cheers,

Emma

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Peace

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Hi Mick, Well, he told me that Bin Laden did it, then he told me the whole history of Bin Laden (he was xCIA, owned a house in Bel Aire, Cal, stocks in airlines, family disowned him, things like that). And he was saying that there was no way they could continue any attack as they dont have any capability of any nuclear weapons except maybe the size of a briefcase, and none that could be sent, such as a missile.

Didn't think to ask anything. The whole thing was overwhelming to me in the first place so I just heard him out.

But I was in the Sea Org and had no access to any TV or news or anything and so maybe that info was known, who knows.

Oh - yeah that info was broadly known on 9/11, but being in the SO really did cut off our access to the "outside world" didn't it?

 

[chuckbeatty]

A couple years ago I asked Dan Garvin WHY didn't OSA hassle him, since Dan did all sorts of really "bad" things, Dan went to Clearwater and demonstrated a few days against the church, Dan spoke on a radio show and told very coherently the OT 3 story, Xenu and the body thetans, and Dan's was active on ARS and Clambake until he went back to university.

Dan answered the obvious, they are undermanned.

OSA and RTC can decide to concentrate on certain "critics" and that's what they do. ("Head on a pike" principle, it's a pragmatic decision, who they decide to hassle.)

I think OSA's ineffectiveness in harrassing a wider number of ex member "critics" is a pragmatic also because wider harrassment would publicize Scientology's/Hubbard's negative side more.

But I think they (OSA) are overwhelmed. There are so many people speaking up critically. Every time a head if put on the pike, it's just more critical news against Scientology.

LRH's writings give them so many problems. His "solutions" are just problem causing mistakes in my opinion, the whole OSA foundation is a problem creation factory.

This link below, is to the LRH heart and soul writings that OSA is obligated today to continue to execute, this explains official Scientology's negative problem causing side:

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/scans/GO_intel_actions_1969.pdf

 

[Lulu Belle]

A couple years ago I asked Dan Garvin WHY didn't OSA hassle him, since Dan did all sorts of really "bad" things, Dan went to Clearwater and demonstrated a few days against the church, Dan spoke on a radio show and told very coherently the OT 3 story, Xenu and the body thetans, and Dan's was active on ARS and Clambake until he went back to university.

Dan answered the obvious, they are undermanned.

OSA and RTC can decide to concentrate on certain "critics" and that's what they do. ("Head on a pike" principle, it's a pragmatic decision, who they decide to hassle.)

Oh, definitely.

If you have actually been in the Sea Org and been around OSA and OSA staff, it's obvious to you they aren't running around spying on people and looking in their trash.

They may be paying a PI to do it, but they can only get so much money through FP for this. So, the amount of spying and trash picking they can get done is pretty limited.

Part of the solution that seemed to be being used to get some of this stuff done was "public volunteers". But, considering some of the most vocal critics these days used to be "public volunteers" (Tory; Patty P) I think there's a good chance they're not doing this like they used to.

I read the stuff on ARS and OCMB about OSA OSA OSA everywhere and I roll my eyes. While they think OSA is spying through their windows, it's a lot more likely they are all at a mandatory muster at the HGB before everyone has to white glove the building for the whole night.

 

[lionheart]

Yes, they can't possibly "win" whilever they follow LRH instructions. And if they ever stop following LRH instructions, well that would probably be allright, wouldn't it?

 

[Emma]

Oh, definitely.

If you have actually been in the Sea Org and been around OSA and OSA staff, it's obvious to you they aren't running around spying on people and looking in their trash.

They may be paying a PI to do it, but they can only get so much money through FP for this. So, the amount of spying and trash picking they can get done is pretty limited.

Part of the solution that seemed to be being used to get some of this stuff done was "public volunteers". But, considering some of the most vocal critics these days used to be "public volunteers" (Tory; Patty P) I think there's a good chance they're not doing this like they used to.

I read the stuff on ARS and OCMB about OSA OSA OSA everywhere and I roll my eyes. While they think OSA is spying through their windows, it's a lot more likely they are all at a mandatory muster at the HGB before everyone has to white glove the building for the whole night.

You mean to tell me that OSA isn't trying to trick and confuse SchwimmelPuckel at every turn?

Don't tell him though. He'd be dissapointed.

 

[Lulu Belle]

You mean to tell me that OSA isn't trying to trick and confuse SchwimmelPuckel at every turn?

Don't tell him though. He'd be dissapointed.

No. They're busy with Arnie.

But they won't get far.

He's Onto Them.

LOL!!!!

 

[everfree]

>it might be the PI stuff goes right to Warren McShane in RTC, where Warren was still as of 2006,

About a year ago I heard that McShane is now an un-person and made to disappear. Don't know if he's RPFed or declared. More likely the former I would think.

 

[Veda]

I totally agree. Your views I think should rise to the top of the list about staff in the HGB, the two floors OSA has offices on, I was there in 2003, March 29, my very last moments in the Sea Org. I've seen OSA staff up close, and many are or were friends and acquaintances. Very likable people in normal circumstances.

The simplicity of how people can be turned to do incorrect authoritarian acts against themselves and others, is contained in some of the principles in the Milgram experiment: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/milgram_perils_authority_1974.html

Look at Dan Garvin's posts, he's getting close to graduating and getting his physics degree from university and then he'll have some time to post more.

He's a perfect example of your point! You got it right.

We need ex OSA staff like Neil O'Reiley to do their memoirs, or Kurt Weiland, or Lynn Farney and his wife, and THAT would be interesting to see if they can mentally trace the steps they went through to condone and order and chaperone and orchestrate the counter-attack methods (the old GO stuff still on the books, written today into the OSA Network Bulletins which Jacqueline Kevanar and Trish Allen compiled, and those two also I hope someday go public on that compilation work they did for the history books), that OSA does today.

Only a few in OSA are privy to the bad stuff. The auditors and tech people who do the folder work digging up the PC and Ethics Folder stuff, those people too, some of the compartmented jobs of people who have to rumage through and keep up the ethics files on all the members, my former wife, she was able to do the old "route don't read" routine, and stay somewhat apart from the bad stuff, but simply file the reports in the files,and then the Legal Bureau people under Lynn Farney, and the PI managing people like Neil O'Reiley, and whoever does that today, it might be the PI stuff goes right to Warren McShane in RTC, where Warren was still as of 2006, and Warren might be the one who hears all the bad stuff, and orchestrates any current bad stuff if they are still doing it.

Rank and file OSA aren't in on it, except from their compartmented specialty jobs that cross the bad stuff that OSA accumulates on its "enemies."

The LRH orders to the GO were all carefully gone through, and Jacqueline Kevanar on the OSA Network Issues compilations project selected and maintained for posterity putting into the OSA NW bulletins much of that old LRH stuff to the GO.

Needed are ex OSA participants who can tell the little details of to what extent the old negative LRH GO orders are still being done.

Thanks for your excellent thoughts!

The key word is "compartmented."

A person can be in "OSA" general "Admin," or "OSA" mid-level Public Relations, for years, and not have any idea of what is occurring in "OSA" "covert data collection," or "OSA" "Support [Attack] Intelligence." And those areas are also "compartmented."

Private Investigators (usually corrupt ex-cops) are used more often these days; however, the basic patterns have not changed, and the LRH "Intelligence tech" writings are still "sacred scripture."

Scientology Inc. can become distracted, it can be somewhat overwhelmed, but it has not reformed.

Probably, if it "reformed" *slightly*, it would become more dangerous, since, it would cease being a dysfunctional front-group and mental-healing-disguised personality cult, and become a more fully functioning one.

Scientology is currently going through its "dumb phase." But Hubbard did craft a (more or less) functioning (in his own words) "Psycho(logical)-Political (group) operation - and as a kind of "people-machine," it's likely to be around for some time, and used by someone.

IMHO.

 

[OHTEEATE]

OSA

Sorry if this one is a bit off topic, but about the future, I so often hear critics say the CofS is sliding toward the abyss. Not so, I sez. You have to know your history. If the Mormons are still around, with the angel maroni and gold tablets giving the word to Joseph Smith, 150 years later, I think the CofS will be around for quite some time to come. If the exec strata continues and does not bolt with the loot, it will go on indefinately, and may even survive a cultural wipeout due to war, famine, or natural disaster. Those CST hideouts are well stocked. Right now they are having a bit of a road bump with the internet. They are bypassing and handling, with third world recruits who don't read the internet. The races that don't read the internet are getting more attention that ever. Observe with dispassion. Speak out when you have an audience. Do what you can. I wasn't doing anything, were you? Mike

 

[Dulloldfart]

Sorry if this one is a bit off topic, but about the future, I so often hear critics say the CofS is sliding toward the abyss. Not so, I sez. You have to know your history. If the Mormons are still around, with the angel maroni and gold tablets giving the word to Joseph Smith, 150 years later, I think the CofS will be around for quite some time to come. If the exec strata continues and does not bolt with the loot, it will go on indefinately, and may even survive a cultural wipeout due to war, famine, or natural disaster. Those CST hideouts are well stocked. Right now they are having a bit of a road bump with the internet. They are bypassing and handling, with third world recruits who don't read the internet. The races that don't read the internet are getting more attention that ever. Observe with dispassion. Speak out when you have an audience. Do what you can. I wasn't doing anything, were you? Mike

Out of curiosity, I wondered if there was an alt.religion.mormon with its own Barbara Schwarz, and a clutch of anti-Mormon sites. Yes, there is such a newsgroup, quite active too. It seems a bit quieter than ars, but there's still some anti stuff. And there is an http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm site with stories of ex-Mormons. The horrors seem mild in comparison to the :shark:'s, though.

I don't agree, Mike, that because the Mormon Church with their bizarre beliefs have lasted 150 years so will the :shark:. I don't really think the bizarre beliefs, per se, have a lot to do with it. There are many major religions with bizarre beliefs. What will bring down the :shark: is the indefensible stuff: the human-rights abuses, the financial crimes, the perjury.

Paul

 

[Kilia]

"Bizarre beliefs" is one thing, High-Crime cult is another.
Cannot compare the two. I was a member of the LDS Church for many years.

EDIT: I take that back some. The LDS church does have their "secrets" with the temple stuff. A member doesn't know what goes on in them until they "qualify" to enter into one.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Sorry if this one is a bit off topic, but about the future, I so often hear critics say the CofS is sliding toward the abyss. Not so, I sez. You have to know your history. If the Mormons are still around, with the angel maroni and gold tablets giving the word to Joseph Smith, 150 years later, I think the CofS will be around for quite some time to come. If the exec strata continues and does not bolt with the loot, it will go on indefinately, and may even survive a cultural wipeout due to war, famine, or natural disaster. Those CST hideouts are well stocked. Right now they are having a bit of a road bump with the internet. They are bypassing and handling, with third world recruits who don't read the internet. The races that don't read the internet are getting more attention that ever. Observe with dispassion. Speak out when you have an audience. Do what you can. I wasn't doing anything, were you? Mike

Mike - apart from the sheer delight of seeing you posting here - in this area i disagree with you. bear with me.

The strangeness of the beliefs is neither here nor there. On that I think we agree. Scientology's stuff is no weirder than the LDS or the RC Church.

So wherein lies the secret of longevity?

Bureaucracy. And I do not mean that in a bad way. Group infrastructure may be a better way of saying it.

The RC Church is the longest lived organization in the west by a long way. It has survived wars, lawsuits, reformation and good and bad popes. It also has a firmly entrenched civil service (the Curia) and a vast infrastructure. So does the LDS.

This gives continuity, it means that the organization itself continues to function even as leaders change.

IN Scientology however, at the current moment, Miscavige has done the one thing that may well bring about the demise of Scientology. He has totally destroyed the civil service infrastructure. The Exec Strata hardly exists, neither does CMO Int. In his fear of others gaining power Miscavige has ensured that there is virtually nothing to keep this garbage wagon rolling at the next changing of the guard.