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What is OSA's specific concern?

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Long after I had left COS, the SHSBC course sup read portions of my daughter's folders to me over the phone.
I was read some of Mayo's folders.
David Carlson, an Oldtimer, called me up and told me things that were in my PC folder that they had read to him.
I read all the folders of all the SHSBC students while I was on the Course. They are held in Course Admin and are available to be checked out by any student who is auditing on the Course.
PC folders are available to all tech people. Ethics, admin, auditors, c/s's, pages, examiners, fes'rs, you name it. They can get it and they can read it.
One might just as well publish their secrets in the LA Times as to confide them in COS.

chlng


Youre right, PC folders are available to virtually any tech terminal. In our org, the auditors, C/S, whatever auditor was FESing, the Ethics Officer (who also was the ED), the D of P (who was generally the DED, also the reg), any eithics interviewer (who were also course sups) were all able to access pc and ethics folders. The ED and DED did quite often.

It was something that disturbed me greatly as an auditor at the time - I knew there was no such thing as confidentiality. Particularly when there were sec checks going on, the DED used to read the session notes after almost every session, and request punishments of the pc for overts against her or her family. She would often get into yelling matches with the C/S trying to tell him what to C/S pcs for and how to do his job - to his credit he always tried to do the right thing by his pcs.

I had to FES my husbands folders. Noone thought that was perhaps a big violation of privacy, even though we were having BIG relationship problems at the time. I was very careful to keep my auditor hat on, and never brought up any of the info in his folder in any arguments or conversations, and never mentioned anything I saw to anyone, even when I blew.

When I was busted for writing a "things that shouldnt be report" on execs in the org (at the same time as a couple of my friends), I was ordered to go through my friends pc folder and find evidence that she was an SP, so that could be used against her. It was supposed to be a punishment for me and her. I said I would (to save my ass) but never did. She was my friend, and I was disgusted that this was the way HIS outpoints were to be handled - by finding dirt on other people.

This seemed to be a common handling - someone is critical of execs, go through their pc folder and find dirt.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Youre right, PC folders are available to virtually any tech terminal. In our org, the auditors, C/S, whatever auditor was FESing, the Ethics Officer (who also was the ED), the D of P (who was generally the DED, also the reg), any eithics interviewer (who were also course sups) were all able to access pc and ethics folders. The ED and DED did quite often.

It was something that disturbed me greatly as an auditor at the time - I knew there was no such thing as confidentiality. Particularly when there were sec checks going on, the DED used to read the session notes after almost every session, and request punishments of the pc for overts against her or her family. She would often get into yelling matches with the C/S trying to tell him what to C/S pcs for and how to do his job - to his credit he always tried to do the right thing by his pcs.

I had to FES my husbands folders. Noone thought that was perhaps a big violation of privacy, even though we were having BIG relationship problems at the time. I was very careful to keep my auditor hat on, and never brought up any of the info in his folder in any arguments or conversations, and never mentioned anything I saw to anyone, even when I blew.

When I was busted for writing a "things that shouldnt be report" on execs in the org (at the same time as a couple of my friends), I was ordered to go through my friends pc folder and find evidence that she was an SP, so that could be used against her. It was supposed to be a punishment for me and her. I said I would (to save my ass) but never did. She was my friend, and I was disgusted that this was the way HIS outpoints were to be handled - by finding dirt on other people.

This seemed to be a common handling - someone is critical of execs, go through their pc folder and find dirt.

I accept what you say here, but my reaction is "oh my".

Yeah, for us, the folders were available for all those terminals that you speak of, but it wasn't for reading through worksheets, and we didn't divulge stuff that we knew as auditors.

I wasn't aware at the time that worksheets were gone through, for dirt, but looking back now, I recall OSA and DSA requests for folders, with some kind of "shore story" that we bought. It was obviously done back then, but OSA and DSA kept pretty quiet about it, 'cause none of us lot knew about it.

What you've described here cantsay, about you being ordered to go through your mate's folder, is just shocking. It perturbs me more somehow, 'cause it was here in our own back yard, at a time when I wasn't 'anti' CofS.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I accept what you say here, but my reaction is "oh my".

Yeah, for us, the folders were available for all those terminals that you speak of, but it wasn't for reading through worksheets, and we didn't divulge stuff that we knew as auditors.

I wasn't aware at the time that worksheets were gone through, for dirt, but looking back now, I recall OSA and DSA requests for folders, with some kind of "shore story" that we bought. It was obviously done back then, but OSA and DSA kept pretty quiet about it, 'cause none of us lot knew about it.

What you've described here cantsay, about you being ordered to go through your mate's folder, is just shocking. It perturbs me more somehow, 'cause it was here in our own back yard, at a time when I wasn't 'anti' CofS.

Yes, culling folder data was par for the course by the GO. And HCO 'handlings'.
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
I accept what you say here, but my reaction is "oh my".

Yeah, for us, the folders were available for all those terminals that you speak of, but it wasn't for reading through worksheets, and we didn't divulge stuff that we knew as auditors.

I wasn't aware at the time that worksheets were gone through, for dirt, but looking back now, I recall OSA and DSA requests for folders, with some kind of "shore story" that we bought. It was obviously done back then, but OSA and DSA kept pretty quiet about it, 'cause none of us lot knew about it.

What you've described here cantsay, about you being ordered to go through your mate's folder, is just shocking. It perturbs me more somehow, 'cause it was here in our own back yard, at a time when I wasn't 'anti' CofS.

It was harder for secrets to be kept from tech terminals for us perhaps - I was the only auditor except for the CS, and if was really obvious to me who's folders would disappear, who was having what action and so on - there were only a handful of people recieving services at any time. If a folder was needed by some exec (I recall OSA in Sydney asking for folders of an auditor who was declared, now that I think about it), I was the one who had to go hunt through the basement for it, and usually got the CS to admit what the hell they were doing with it, and Id usually FES it too.

Seeing execs sitting in the folder storage area browsing through pc folders was a common sight. When I complained about it I got told I had to write up ows of my overts on execs. Of course. I felt like dirt whenever I reassured a pc that their sessions were confidential.

Plus by the time I was auditing I was already quite suspicious of what was going on, Id been burned several times by these terminals already and was aware of what they considered to be "ethical actions".
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
Your PC Folder -- After You've Blown -- A Poem

When you've had enough, and you've finally blown,
and your folder's whereabouts, makes you groan.

If you have talked, about your cupid,
then you were really, frigging stupid.

But now you're gone, and your folder's there,
and the threats keep coming, so you are scared.

Perhaps some gains, may have been gotten,
but you better shut up, because their honor is rotten.

OSA's fair game delegation,
will "black PR" your reputation.

Your friends, family, boss; contacts and more,
OSA will prove they're an "ethical" whore.

scientology, you're shit on my shoe,
I wish I'd never dealt with you.

Tell one tell all, to quickly run,
this whole thread, is a smoking gun.
 
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xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
When in the Sea Org I had mainly confessional auditingf rom a SHSBC student, which was incredibly uncomfortable for me at the time, but somehow I got thru it. I felt very relieved when it was over.
As an inexperienced 20 yr old, I hadnt any real overts just a bunch of stuff I felt uncomfortable about saying, mainly sexual stuff of course.
When I said I wanted to leave I had to have even more confessionals, as I obviously had overts. (what else?)
I remember sitting somewhere like ethics or with some Exec and seeing my folder there on the table, which made me feel uncomfortable, as I didnt want everbody to read what was in there.
I remember that horrible feeling in my stomach too.

Now I have no doubt that others in the org had read my folders and even a snide remark made by a fellow Sea Org member did indicate to me that he knew something, and I sort of had a missed withhgold on that for years.

Being 30 yrs older now I can look back and am glad I was so clean at the time, apart from all that sexual fantasy stuff I had, but now I can laugh about it.
To think that members who were in for many years could be blackmailed with such information makes me feel sick.

That would have been a point, when 'in', that would have made me think more about the conequences of $cientology auditing, and I would have been more sceptical if somebody had told me that.
 

Carmel

Crusader
When in the Sea Org I had mainly confessional auditingf rom a SHSBC student, which was incredibly uncomfortable for me at the time, but somehow I got thru it. I felt very relieved when it was over.
As an inexperienced 20 yr old, I hadnt any real overts just a bunch of stuff I felt uncomfortable about saying, mainly sexual stuff of course.
When I said I wanted to leave I had to have even more confessionals, as I obviously had overts. (what else?)
I remember sitting somewhere like ethics or with some Exec and seeing my folder there on the table, which made me feel uncomfortable, as I didnt want everbody to read what was in there.
I remember that horrible feeling in my stomach too.

Now I have no doubt that others in the org had read my folders and even a snide remark made by a fellow Sea Org member did indicate to me that he knew something, and I sort of had a missed withhgold on that for years.

Being 30 yrs older now I can look back and am glad I was so clean at the time, apart from all that sexual fantasy stuff I had, but now I can laugh about it.
To think that members who were in for many years could be blackmailed with such information makes me feel sick.

That would have been a point, when 'in', that would have made me think more about the conequences of $cientology auditing, and I would have been more sceptical if somebody had told me that.

Yeah, what a bugger, and what a crock of shit!

The most insidious thing about all this though, is that we ALL have personal stuff about ourselves that we wouldn't want divulged or would feel uncomfortable about if divulged. We ALL have it (or have had it).

It's funny, 'cause when it's out on the table, it isn't anywhere near as bad as what we 'think' it is or could be. It's really nothing big enough to be 'blackmailed' over, yet somehow the CofS use it to have many of us pinned down by the short and curlies.

It's a pity more didn't get or have the EP of Grade O - if what was promised was delivered on that count, then this card that the bastards have, wouldn't be a problem.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
And remember it was Ron and Mary Sue who instigated this control mecahnism on the slaves.

OSA and the current folder snooping freaks are simply perpetuating Source Command Intention.

I has a sexual origination in my folder reported by the auditor to HCO. I was pulled in and it was made perfectly clear to me that the ED and the HAS knew the exact detail of my in-session origination.

This was 35 years ago. This is not new (in case anyone thinks it is a new DM aberration).

When I talked last year to the UK information Commisioners Office about this practice in relation to confidentiality of personal information and the Data Protection Act - her response was "this is outrageous!"

If anyone had proof that the CofS folder peeking freaks do this they could call on their national data protection and confidentiality legislation to make a claim.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
When you are done, and you have blown.
No matter scilon, or Free Zone.

If you have talked, about your cupid.
You were really, frigging stupid.

Perhaps some gains, can be gotten.
But their code of honor, is really rotten.

Tell all newbies, drop and run.
This whole thread, is a smoking gun.

Saying that "their code is really rotten" in conjunction with the Freezone is misleading and untrue.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah, what a bugger, and what a crock of shit!

The most insidious thing about all this though, is that we ALL have personal stuff about ourselves that we wouldn't want divulged or would feel uncomfortable about if divulged. We ALL have it (or have had it).

It's funny, 'cause when it's out on the table, it isn't anywhere near as bad as what we 'think' it is or could be. It's really nothing big enough to be 'blackmailed' over, yet somehow the CofS use it to have many of us pinned down by the short and curlies.

It's a pity more didn't get or have the EP of Grade O - if what was promised was delivered on that count, then this card that the bastards have, wouldn't be a problem.

This is exactly why (in part) I'm writing my story. Breath of freedom--they won't have anything to hold over me, cuz it's all going to be coming out, including the stuff I'm sure they think they could use to keep me afraid forever. It worked for a while--I'm done with that. Screw 'em and do a giant happy dance. :happydance:

Our ED had to go 'get handled' for confronting a staff member with case info she picked up from a folder. Supposedly, a big flap, and I was horrified at this 'odd' occurrence. Towards the end of my staffdom, I found out she had a penchant for reading folders, and every single KR crossed her desk. She was pretty hardcore on trying to get what she wanted out of sec checks and had input on the question-writing. We also had a time when she was freaking out daily over someone's FPRD sessions, because the pc wasn't cogniting yet that her purpose was to be a staff member. Auditor was starting to catch hell for it. Staff were almost always done 'not auditing you', so we had no expectation of privacy.

As far as the confessional thing, our C/S came up with a particularly clever twist. We had a pc who divulged something in session that it was felt needed to be addressed by ethics. A D of P was arranged and the pc was led to talk about it---info was now in a D of P interview, which there wasn't a reference that THAT was confidential, so now the withold was out for anyone to deal with. ouch.

I'm sure there was more, but if I even START to think about our DSA this morning, I'm likely to break out into hives. :p
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't have any reality on this, myself, and nothing to add, but I'm just popping in here to say that I am horrified and sickened by this whole thing; I have a significant physiological reaction every time I read a post on this thread.

That unabashed and widespread betrayal of trust is just unforgivable. For such a long time I believed that it was only upper management that was corrupt, and everyone else were just dupes like me. Now I'm starting to see it differently. Thanks to you all for posting this information. It is so important that people know this. . . if they knew it beforehand, they would never get into Scientology!!

:no: TL
 

Lynn Fountain Campbell

Silver Meritorious Patron
Not only is it documented, its documented as coming from management and the buck stops with DM.

Also there is an army of people trying to correct abuses who are beyond COS control.

Currently the media seem very happy to do programs about COS.

I believe these are all new factors.

In the US, isn't it a federal felony to interfere with a person's civil rights? If the order is documented as coming from DM, anyone he's done this to over here might have cause for complaint. :whistling:

Lynn
 

CornPie

Patron Meritorious
...I am horrified and sickened by this whole thing...
...unabashed and widespread betrayal of trust is just unforgivable...
...I believed that it was only upper management...starting to see it differently...
...if [prospective scilons] knew it beforehand, they would never get into Scientology...
Another Thread About "PC Folders": http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=4491

Video: Patty Pieniadz quit OSA, the day they used Chuck Battey's PC folder against him.
Video Starts At: at 40 seconds.
Quoted Verbiage is Below the Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDqg5gaOBU&NR#t=0m40s
Quoted Verbiage Starts (at :40 seconds): Patty Pieniadz, "My final coming out, and speaking loudly publicly under my own name, was when a man named Chuck Beatty, who was a scientology critic, he was in the Sea Organization for 27 years. They [OSA] actually went and took information from his parishioner folder. When you're in scientology, one of the things that happens when you go into a counseling session, is they write everything down. So if you give up your past indiscretions about your sex life, about maybe something you did that was illegal. This is all in writing now. Well what they did with Chuck, is they took all the information that he told them about his feelings about his sex life, his his inhibitions, his everything. And they started publishing this crap on the web. This came from parishioner folders. And it was so disgusting, this is what they were trying to use against him to shut him up. I was so disgusted, that's the day that I came out publicly, and said, 'that's it, I've had enough, these people are just despicable in trying to silence critics against them. So ah...'" [Applause]

Quoted Verbiage Continues (from 1:55): Patty Pieniadz, "So that's why ex-scientologists won't come out, a lot of ex-scientologists won't speak out. They're afraid, because the church has information about them to make them quiet, and they do that deliberately. There's no doubt, they'll tell you, 'no, no, no'. But that's what it's all about..."
 
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apple

Patron Meritorious
This all comes together now.

Years ago while on staff the Ethics Officer, whos office was near the G.O. interviewed all the staff asking intimate questions. This is at the time the GO was getting real strong and nasty. As a young adult I had somethings to say but nothing really outrageous. If now, I was to run for politics it may be a problem. As I recall I think we had to sign it also. At the time I did not understand that this was a collection of history that could be used against one. Chalk it up to being young and innocent.I am wondering if Scn would use this information to gain priviledge and blackmail. Why am I even asking. If push came to shove of course they would and they have.

About the PC folders. The information was between the auditor and PC. Who is to say that it is true. If they were going to use the stuff out of my PC folder, I would say it is a lie, they just made it up, I did not write it. There was nothing signed. Deny, deny, deny.

For any would-be politician Scn. is an organization to definitely stay away from. Actually everybody needs to stay away from it, one never knows if later in life they may want to run for politics. One would be shackled by the info the cult has on you.
 

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>
If they were going to use the stuff out of my PC folder, I would say it is a lie, they just made it up, I did not write it. There was nothing signed. Deny, deny, deny.
<snip>

Ya could do that, but whether it's seen to be true or not is not really the problem. By the time ya had a chance to deny it (if in fact ya got one), they would have already had their desired adverse affect.

If the pc folder data is a problem, unless it would mean going to jail or something, best to put it all out in the open so they have nothing over ya, IMO.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
If the pc folder data is a problem, unless it would mean going to jail or something, best to put it all out in the open so they have nothing over ya, IMO.

Depends. The cult can't really hold a press conference and say that in his confidential counselling sessions Politician P said that he had sex with a vacuum cleaner every Sunday morning instead of going to church with his family.

Whereas if Politician P were to come out and reveal all upfront it wouldn't do his political career any good at all.

Paul
 

apple

Patron Meritorious
Ya could do that, but whether it's seen to be true or not is not really the problem. By the time ya had a chance to deny it (if in fact ya got one), they would have already had their desired adverse affect.

If the pc folder data is a problem, unless it would mean going to jail or something, best to put it all out in the open so they have nothing over ya, IMO.

That is a good point.

Really , I dont think its that important of whats in the PC folder. Whats important is that one has a PC folder, which means that they were involved in the cult. If they were involved in the cult, for a political career they are almost dead in the water before they fly off. At least to me. Would I vote for a scientologist or ex-scientologist for public office? With all due respect its pretty unlikely.

What happens to old inactive PC folders? Do they become moth eaten dried broken paper flakes useless to anyone? Mine was at Flag in its last destination. Is it buried in a mountain of PC folders somewhere there, or is it discarded? Or is it sent back to the original Scn. Org.?
 
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