What is the best way to combat Auditing and Ethics in a child receiving auditing

mark91942

Patron
As some of you have read I have a 6 year old daughter who lives with her mother a majority of the time. My daughter is enrolled in Delphi Academy in Los Angeles. My daughter's mother is a second generation $cientologist, which makes life very hard for me, as a father who wants the best for his daughter. There are many things I worry about with my daughter. Chief among my worries is the worry that she is undergoing auditing and Ethics through Delphi Los Angeles if not through the church itself.

Does anyone have any advice for parent who does not have much in the way of control as far as his daughter is concerned? I have posted about my trials and tribulations about my daughter and doctors visits. Since that post I took my daughter to the dentist when she was here in August only to find out that she had 8 cavities and they were only able to fill two the next day because she is 6 and she cannot sit still for that long. They asked when I would be able to bring her in to get the rest filled. My response was March 2016 due to the time frame that I have her that they may be open. I know my x will not take her into see the dentist so this is left squarely on my shoulders as per usual.

This post was not supposed to be about the doctor or dentist, but about a way to combat the effects of auditing or Ethics counseling in a child of 6 years old. As I have stated above, my daughter holds somethings back from me and being her father I can tell when she is holding back. I do not force her or tell her she is lying I realize that her mother and $cientology have a strong hold on her and have probably threatened her ability to see me and that is why she will not tell me what is going on. To elaborate on the fact that I know she would really hate not seeing daddy, almost every time I take her back to her mother she attempts to con me into bringing her back to my house. She has also asked if her mother can come and live with us, to which I reply that her mother and I do not get along.

If anyone who reads this knows a good way to have my daughter open up to me I would be glad to hear it. I understand they have threatened her and that scares her, so I do not push her for the information. I appreciate that my daughter feels safe with me and want to keep that feeling there for her. Any advice you might have for this situation would be great.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
As some of you have read I have a 6 year old daughter who lives with her mother a majority of the time. My daughter is enrolled in Delphi Academy in Los Angeles. My daughter's mother is a second generation $cientologist, which makes life very hard for me, as a father who wants the best for his daughter. There are many things I worry about with my daughter. Chief among my worries is the worry that she is undergoing auditing and Ethics through Delphi Los Angeles if not through the church itself.

Does anyone have any advice for parent who does not have much in the way of control as far as his daughter is concerned? I have posted about my trials and tribulations about my daughter and doctors visits. Since that post I took my daughter to the dentist when she was here in August only to find out that she had 8 cavities and they were only able to fill two the next day because she is 6 and she cannot sit still for that long. They asked when I would be able to bring her in to get the rest filled. My response was March 2016 due to the time frame that I have her that they may be open. I know my x will not take her into see the dentist so this is left squarely on my shoulders as per usual.

This post was not supposed to be about the doctor or dentist, but about a way to combat the effects of auditing or Ethics counseling in a child of 6 years old. As I have stated above, my daughter holds somethings back from me and being her father I can tell when she is holding back. I do not force her or tell her she is lying I realize that her mother and $cientology have a strong hold on her and have probably threatened her ability to see me and that is why she will not tell me what is going on. To elaborate on the fact that I know she would really hate not seeing daddy, almost every time I take her back to her mother she attempts to con me into bringing her back to my house. She has also asked if her mother can come and live with us, to which I reply that her mother and I do not get along.

If anyone who reads this knows a good way to have my daughter open up to me I would be glad to hear it. I understand they have threatened her and that scares her, so I do not push her for the information. I appreciate that my daughter feels safe with me and want to keep that feeling there for her. Any advice you might have for this situation would be great.


Phew ... I've been through something similar mark9 and it's an appalling situation because you are trying to do what is right for your child while (effectively) wearing cult handcuffs and a gag. Anything you say or do will be reported back (the poor little girl will have little choice) and used against you unless you play their game.

I wish I could suggest something but pretty much anything you do will end up with an upset little one, scientology will make sure of that ... it's actually child abuse.

If you could get permanent custody (without too much drama) I'd go for that.

I wish I had more.

My very best wishes to you and the little one.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
mark91942, If you are concerned about being identified, I think you need to edit your posts because the above one, at the least, contains too many personally identifying details in your posts. You don't have to give names and locations. And if your real name is Mark, well, you need to ask the moderator to help you change these things in your posts and get a new nic name. The last thing you need is a lurker informing the mother of your child that you are posting on the internet.If you are found out, the issues will only get worse.

I feel for you and your concerns are valid but more for the long run. She's only 6, so you have some time to plan and prepare.

Your main priority right now should be making sure you are being discrete in publicly asking for help. And not creating any antagonism with the mother, especially in remarks you make to the child. Presume the mother is asking her about the visit you've had. Make them happy and memorable visits so she's not stressed out upon return. Let her know you will always be there for her when she needs you.

Your child sounds like any normal 6 year old who wants Mommy and Daddy together. Stop trying to pull information out of her, even discretely. Be willing to not know all the stuff going on. It's amazing how children will tell things when not asked or prodded. When you do that, she will open up.

Telling her you don't get along with her mom is not helpful. It puts her in a position where she feels she has to take sides. Always speak respectfully of her Mom and acknowledge the things the child shares with you about the Mom or home life with her. You want her to know that you care enough about the Mom so you are not in opposition with her. Even if the Mom does this, do not fall for that and do the same.

I suggest that when she asks you stuff like this "She has also asked if her mother can come and live with us", that you just let her know you understand how she feels but it's just not possible right now.

Remember, don't feed into the problem she is trying to solve. Just say things that let her know you understand how she feels but it's it's the way things are right now. Then get her to tell you how it makes her feel, to not have things the way she would like them to be. Just listen. She's grieving. She wants what all children want but she's too young to understand the complexities of relationships.

You can be of great help to her by setting routines for when she is with you and gaining her participation in setting these things up. Having her care for a plant at your home when she is there, watching it's progress, reading stories before bed ( you to her, her to you! ), brushing teeth together, doing things on a regular basis when you have the visits gives her structure with you. Certainly try making the beginnings of a plan on what you will be doing together for the next visit just before leaving to return her home. That way she is already looking forward to the next visit rather than feeling lost without you on the way home. And remember, kids are serious thinkers but they are also very resilient and adaptable. 2 minutes after you leave, she's back into her routine at home. Don't think otherwise.

Lots of love and hugs and listening can go a long way. And so does a good attorney. I suggest you start keeping a journal of events as they come up, and start creating a what-if plan for possible changes in custody agreements. But for now, don't make waves.. and be discrete in your posts. To edit them within the time allowed, just click edit post shown at the bottom of your post.

If it's past the allowed time to edit it, just click the little black and white Alert triangle that is shaped like this without the red border
160_F_80034002_76HBPTNxLGNRIWJXWlWiKR6vrBEcWrdT.jpg


You will see a blank space where you explain that you need the post edited because you didn't realize it was too personally revealing and might endanger your situation, and then either list what you want removed and replaced with by sentence, or insert a copy of your post as it is and then edit if in the message there the way you want written. Also, if the nic name is real, ask in the message how you can change it

Best wishes.

Mary
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Difficult situation. No easy answers.

I don't know how you could swing it, but if your ex were to join staff or SO so she can help "save the planet" , maybe you could more easily get custody of your daughter.

Bottom line: It would be the best thing to get her out of the cult's clutches, but if you can't, just do your best to love her and provide her some stability and needed care.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
A March 2016 potential dental appointment?
$cientology or not, there is so,etching seriously wrong with your custody and visitation schedules.
This isnt even legal.

If I were you, I'd start digging into those guidelines for your state.

Even if somehow your ex managed to get full physical AND LEGAL custody, (which is unlikely)
the visitation still would not be approved by any court.

Personally, I don't think good roads fair weather with your daughter is any kind of a solution to anything. I think we'd take that as a given.

But behind the scenes, any father worth his salt would be hammering out legal agreements that grant and enforce his rightful visitation schedule and fair share of life decision making for his daughter. (ie, dental care schedules, education, place of worship Ect.)
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mark,

My recommendation is simply let your daughter know she can talk to you any time about anything. And that when she's X number of years old, she's always welcome to come visit you. Anything more will get into a fight, which will just make things worse.

Do keep a log of every time you had to take care of her basic needs (such as dentistry) because her mother wouldn't do so. It could come in handy when you least expect it.

If her mom does join the Sea Org she will either (a) try to take your daughter with her, enrolling her as a cadet, or (b) give her back to you. If she pulls her onto Church staff, and she reaches the age of majority and stays on, that "affirms" her commitment. If she leaves at that time (make sure she knows she can come directly to you), then any agreement she made is totally null and void.

Don't do anything to get yourself declared as a suppressive person. That will just cut communication lines all over the place and is not worth it. Be against your daughter's involvement in the Church if you must but don't be obviously so.

And good luck.

Helena
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Hi Mark,

Generally, young children prefer the company of the parent that is the most 'fun', whether they are the Scn or not. A child will also yearn for the parent they do not have every day, so at the moment, I wouldn't worry too much about losing your daughter's affection, though the dental work couldn't have been much fun.

ITYIWT said get custody. I left Scn and divorced by Scn husband and raised our child, so I can't begin to emphasize enough how important that is. On several occasions, during visitation, high pressure attempts were made to recruit our young boy into the Sea org, which my SO husband thought was terrific. :angry: My custody made that impossible, and if you have any doubts about Sea Org kids (children who join to be staff members full-time in Scn and live on the cult's premises), believe me, those kids are raised in squalor in abusive conditions and their educations are stunted while they undergo severe Scn brainwashing. It's a nightmarish, hideous place for a child.

If your ex stays in Scn, this is all going to blow up eventually. If you don't have custody, the results could be catastrophic to both you and your daughter.

It may not be too early to bring up religion in general to your daughter and give her some basics and explain to her some of the Scientology basics that violate your relationship and why you ask her not to agree to these. Some of those basics include:

1. That anyone who criticizes Scientology is a bad person
2. Secretly doing Scientology activities without letting you know.
3. Keeping your daughter from getting proper medical or dental care with a lot of silly things that they think are true but are actually lies.

I've had horrible times trying to raise a child with a Scientologist ex. At 5, he once was brought back from an all-day visit with a 103 F fever and my ex hadn't even let him sleep. He'd been throwing up all day and my ex thought walking him around would be the best way to make him alert.:omg: I had to take him to the hospital immediately. Then there were the times they tried recruiting him for staff. And the piles of treats my ex would feed him rather than full meals, and the sneaky Scientology counseling sessions he took him to do that I didn't find out about until years later. Fortunately, our son did not like those sessions. If he had, things might have gone differently. Relief.

There was so, so much more, too. I don't even know where to start.

I'm sorry to hear you have to go through this. It's not fair at all. There is no easy solution, but I hope you post here or chat in private with members as you run into different situations so that we can help you out as things come up, however we can.

Hugs to you,

Sheila
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Mark, First of all, having cavities at 6 years old is dreadful. It's totally preventable, however the good news is that she will get another set of teeth.

As someone who grew up with scientology parents, both of whom were on staff at various times, I think the best thing you could do is simply to be there for her. If her mom is working, and or on course, suggest you could have her. No judgement, but rather simply an issue of logistics. Ask her mom when she is on course and you will have her those days.

Don't get into a situation of trying to get her to, 'report' on her mom as this will not work. If she mentions something, just listen to her. Ask open type questions such as, 'how did that make you feel,' as she will be taught that when bad things happen, it's because she did something wrong. Try not to judge the situation, but just listen compassionately.

I disagree that you should take her mother to court for full custody for lots of reasons, but would suggest that you increase visitation to as much as possible as amicably as you can and maintain this at least for the next few years. If her mom gets more involved in the C of S, you would be in a good position to have her live with you permanently, while leaving the door open for her mother to have as much contact as she wants.
 

Victoria

Patron Meritorious
Unless the mother has somehow aquired full legal and physical custody then you have every right to schedule the dental appointments and inform the mother that arrangements will need to be made for you to take her.

If the mother refuses to cooperate then you are facing a larger issue that MUST be dealt with, sooner rather than later.

Her permanent teeth will be damaged if her baby teeth are left to rot.
At six years old someone must step up to the plate and be a responsible parent to this child.

Giving this "time" is only allowing more damage to occur.
Both parents have to be complicit in this kind of neglect, that's how any court in the land would see it.

Is their an actual custody agreement in the family court file?

Having divorced a $cientologist father, it is obvious to me and every other person who has been there and done that, that reasonable verbal agreements mean nothing to them.

They live in a different world with different rules, for all I know they think tooth decay is caused by not eating enough candy and brushing too often.

The effects of auditing and ethics handlings are damaging of course, but if you accept your visitation rights to their fullest she will benefit from being exposed to normality.

But, I see this dental problem as an urgent problem that must be dealt with and only a symptom of a deeper decay in responsible parenting from either parent.
 

FlagEmDown

Patron
Based on some things I have personally seen, I find this situation extremely worrisome. It is my opinion- and I sure hope that I am wrong - that the church's end game will be to get your daughter completely away from you, no matter what it takes to do it. If I was in your position, I would have someone with me whenever I was with my daughter to avoid false accusations of abuse, either physical, mental, or sexual. I would also be collecting information of what your daughter will be subjected to in the church - for example the kids' auditing checksheet questions, the dangers of the purif, etc. Also Justice Lahey's (sp?) decision and any other court utterings that proclaim the dangers to your daughter. Once I had all my ducks in a row, I would file for full custody.
 

mark91942

Patron
We are in two different counties. Unfortunately we are in a maternal state, where men do not count. The reason for the delayed dental appointment is because that is the next time the dentist will be open while she is here with me.
I have spoken to many lawyers and since the divorce I am barely keeping my head above water financially. I pay quite a bit in child support and have to work hard to have food in my house as it is. I do offer my daughter a better situation, but there is only so much I can do. I would love to go back to court, but the courts are so maternally biased that I doubt anything would change. As I said I have spoken to many lawyers and the end result is that I am pretty much hosed.
 

mark91942

Patron
I agree. I so not bad mouth her mother as others have eluded to. I do not press my daughter for details as previous stated as well. I try to support her in every way possible. As for being declared, that might be advantageous. My x knows that if she ever attempted to stop me from seeing my daughter we would be back in court in a heart beat. With everything I have now if she makes one big mistake, it will be over. I actually hope she makes a big mistake then I will not have to worry about my daughter's safety or well-being anymore.
 

mark91942

Patron
I agree with you but our proximity does not allow for me to have her when her mother is on course. I wish it did, but due to the work I do it is unlikely I will be able to live anywhere close to where she is. Unfortunately there are certain barriers because of where I live and where she lives. I have thought about moving into the county she is in, but to make any decent money to be able to support myself and my daughter would put me about 2 hours away due to traffic even though I would be closer in miles. I have considered many different scenarios and this is about the best that I can make happen at the moment. If you would like to know more you are welcome to reply with a private message.
 

mark91942

Patron
I agree and as I have replied to others on this thread, the x and I live in separate counties. I have considered moving out there, but traffic from the area in which I would have to live to work would make it about the same as where I am now. This is more of a tough situation than I know what to do with. I have attempted many times to work on things with her mother, every time I am about ready to make a concerted effort to talk to her mother again, she does something to my daughter that I once again need to get over before I can approach her again.

As far as the cavities, I have tried to talk to her mother, but she lies about what is going on or lies to me about fixing the issue as well. It seems to be a lose lose situation. Private message me for more.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Aw man, sorry to hear about this, and I totally understand your concerns. Though my situation was somewhat different, I took my own daughter away from a horrible situation, and raised her by myself for the last ten years. All I can say for your situation, if you think that there is weird shit going on, investigate, talk to the appropriate authorities, there is a mental abuse aspect of this which should, in my honest opinion, be studied etc., maybe talk to some child care/protection peoples, I guess try and find where stuff crosses the line. No doubt this is quite harder when ther isn't any 'physical' abuse going on, I think it is harder to find the line when it involves pressing kids into the parent (s) ways of belief, and certainly much more difficult when it is a mind-controll cult, 'religious freedom' an' all that.
Get the proper people involved, the 'outside' part of your family if it exists, friends and witnesses, whatever it takes man. There are many here who have lived through this, from being 'the child', to being 'the parent'. It is, so, so tough, and my heart goes out to you.
And, during hard things/times, don't forget patience and logic, and of course, loving.. *ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*

:hug:

:cheers:

Ogs
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
We are in two different counties. Unfortunately we are in a maternal state, where men do not count. The reason for the delayed dental appointment is because that is the next time the dentist will be open while she is here with me.
I have spoken to many lawyers and since the divorce I am barely keeping my head above water financially. I pay quite a bit in child support and have to work hard to have food in my house as it is. I do offer my daughter a better situation, but there is only so much I can do. I would love to go back to court, but the courts are so maternally biased that I doubt anything would change. As I said I have spoken to many lawyers and the end result is that I am pretty much hosed.

Here is an educational film for the courts in your county. "Until nothing remains"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpfjb8zG-WI

You can switch on the english subtitle by clicking on the symbol in the lower bar.

I hope your daughter will find her way out of this cult as soon as possible. I pray for her mother that she will wake up too.

Love and all good wishes for you and your daughter.

Best wishes

Markus
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
How would the courts in your county decide in your case if her mother would be an alcohol addict? And most true believing Scientologists treat their children even worse than alcohol addicts do. Especially if the Scientologist is a staffmember. No matter if she or he is serving in the Sea Org or in another Organisation of this soul eating cult - true believing Scientologists do neglect their children. That you should make yourself aware for the sake of your beloved daughter.
 
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