What is the one information that would have gotten you out sooner?

knn

Patron Meritorious
What is the one information that would have gotten you out sooner out of Scientology/out of the Church?

In other words: What was the missing information that kept you longer in than necessary?

I am talking here about concrete information (= something that you could hand out to somebody), not "experience on staff" or "experience with tech" or "well, the whole internet thing"...

I am not talking necessarily about what DID FINALLY GET you out. But what WOULD HAVE gotten you out if you WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.
 
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therealme

Patron
Xenu. If I would have known about this I would've laughed my ass off and let so much earlier than I did. It wasn't until a couple of years after I left that I found out about the whole alien b.s.

I now know why they push so hard not to let the staff go online.
 

knn

Patron Meritorious
Xenu. If I would have known about this I would've laughed my ass off and let so much earlier than I did. It wasn't until a couple of years after I left that I found out about the whole alien b.s.

I now know why they push so hard not to let the staff go online.
Can you explain me why? Because RJ67 is FREELY available in the Church and basically every Source mag talks about past lives and "Catastrophe in this sector of the galaxy". How can the alien story of OT3 be something that makes you go "hmm"? I am curious...
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
It is not so much a question of making the information available as it is the receipient believing it. There is a lot of stuff that I believe now, that I wouldn't have while in even if it had been freely available to me.

Paul
 

HolyCow

Patron with Honors
Actually, two things, a Combo

1) O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis) and 2) Brainwashing Manual After that, other Hubbard bio falsehoods. But #1 and #2 pretty much knocks it out the park.

I'd been off lines for years. "friend?" got me to do a course a while back. It was okay till group got corralled and locked in till $$$$ was raised. Knew by that and other things management was still nuts.

But Hubbard was still okay by me. I've been reading up on everything I could find. Most helpful was Ronnie's answer that explains a lot, about you got throw in some real help, wins in there to really confuse and hook 'em.

But the OTo Levels wow! I realized this made Hubbard an illegal PC (this "squirrelly" group exists to this day!) His foaming at the mouth letters to the FBI a must read as well, I'd say. It all shoots a whole lot of holes in the sacred cow. Not even the nutty revisionist can plug that back up. :trash:
 
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HolyCow

Patron with Honors
Believing vs. Reading

Just saw post about this after posting mine. Good Point and here's why what I read was believable. It was written by those who were there at the time, whether business associates, writers, friends, staff or family.

And, it was the quantity of those that mattered to me. In the end, the very fact that this information was hidden speaks volumes, of course. :duh:
 

Woggin' out

Patron with Honors
For myself it would've been knowing the real story and truth about LRH. I was led to believe that he was superman, healed his blindness, war hero.etc.etc. If he could do that than there were such things as OT and what not
If the internet had been available I would've known the real story! The internet has taken a lot of the Monday out of "The Monday morning quarterback!" :yes:
 
It's not what got me out but the information about the coerced/forced abortions would have gotten me out a hell of lot quicker.

That information just really pisses me off.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
as Paul said, while 'in' you have a different frame of mind toward critcism.
I think what shocked me most was the REAL life story of Hubbard, that there are medical records talking about his stomach ulcers etc, showing that he was really only human.
Also Jason Beghe and Tory Christman, who had been on OT 7 I found very believable, as they had actually done a load of stuff.
People writing about there actually being no special powerz that OT's have or get made sense to me, as I didnt know anybody with any.
I think its difficult to set yourself into their mindset.
 

HolyCow

Patron with Honors
References:

I believe the Brainwashing Manual, excerpts and personal notes, were in Ron Jr's Penthouse interview that I saw.

Not sure now where on OTO, but sure you can google your way to it. Alistair Crowley and Hubbard and OTO. Wiki even has cross reference to Scn. Basically some rabbid offshoots of the Masons, but with Sex Magick thrown in.
Has 9 or 10 OT "levels, ok, OTO "degrees". Part of symbols include triangle. Crazy crazy, makes pervy stuff a good thing, and lots of "astral" projecting. Here's the real foundation of Scn, in my opinion.
Did some checking, and Hubbard's "Sara" had sister who took this cause back up in California, think her first name was Helen, in the 70's. Maybe other posters can give you direct links.:whipped:
 

knn

Patron Meritorious
That ron died a lunatic on the run with psych drugs in his system.
Vistaril is a drug used against allergies (LRH lived on a farm).
DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: ... is used to treat allergic reactions. The body releases histamine during several types of allergic reactions and--to a lesser extent--during some viral infections, such as the common cold.
...
SIDE EFFECTS: ... Can commonly cause sedation, tiredness, sleepiness, dizziness

http://www.medicinenet.com/hydroxyzine/article.htm
Thus with Vistaril you can choose between: 1) Hubbard had a psychoneurosis and 2) Hubbard's own Allergy & Asthma Rundown doesn't work. I wonder whether a statement like "Allergy Rundown didn't work on Hubbard" would be enough to leave Church...
 

knn

Patron Meritorious
I believe the Brainwashing Manual, excerpts and personal notes, were in Ron Jr's Penthouse interview that I saw.
LRH Jr is the declared SP who sued against his own father to get all the Scientology money. He is not too believable for Churchies.

Not sure now where on OTO, but sure you can google your way to it. Alistair Crowley and Hubbard and OTO. Wiki even has cross reference to Scn. Basically some rabbid offshoots of the Masons, but with Sex Magick thrown in.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=223846

And how would anything matter what Ron did years before Dianetics?

I am not convinced that I could use the OTO argument to get Churchies out.
 
What is the one information that would have gotten you out sooner out of Scientology/out of the Church?

In other words: What was the missing information that kept you longer in than necessary?

I am talking here about concrete information (= something that you could hand out to somebody), not "experience on staff" or "experience with tech" or "well, the whole internet thing"...

I am not talking necessarily about what DID FINALLY GET you out. But what WOULD HAVE gotten you out if you WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.

Contrasting the documented truth about LRH's bio versus the LRH/Co$ "shore story" is likely the most effective "successful action". The Co$ is structured as an hierarchical pyramid with idolization of LRH as "Source" as its "mortar". Undermine the veracity of LRH and you've dissolved the mortar holding the blocks in place.

All things become possible again. :)


Mark A. Baker
 

HolyCow

Patron with Honors
LRH Jr is the declared SP who sued against his own father to get all the Scientology money. He is not too believable for Churchies.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=223846

And how would anything matter what Ron did years before Dianetics?

I am not convinced that I could use the OTO argument to get Churchies out.

Actually, agree with you, this was just for me. I'm an Old Timer. For me, it was beginning of false info LRH put out about his background, and the actual craziness, plus I just see the Scn parallels. I would think in general just hearing a story of an ex that someone personally knew would have an impact.

Here's a beaut of an irony for 'ya: Very first person who "help" me in Scn also helped me delve deeper into sorting it out. I came across her story as she had sued and won, after much hardship. This was a few years back, but it lead me to look up more. I also contacted her to thank her for what she did. She had written a book, which I read, and I most certainly knew her story was true, up until the time she left staff and a few months after.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think that Paul nailed it when he said that while in, you wouldn't believe it anyway . . . but something that might have introduced doubt, or given me pause was the fact that LRH was not "at cause" later in his life (vistaril or no vistaril -- though that sure got my attention). The "company line" is that willingly dropped his body to do higher levels of research. . . where's his "goodbye" Ron's Journal? That was the clincher for me that something was wrong and that the bridge may not lead out after all.

The thing that did actually get my attention while in was when "good people" blew. People who I had known and respected, and people with high case levels. The explanation always was "ethics trouble", but the thought I had at the time was this: "If someone can dedicate their life to this church and that much money, and still risk going "out ethics" and losing everything; I don't think I want to risk it." I stayed in for years after that realization, but my bridge progress halted.

:)TL
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Vistaril is a drug used against allergies (LRH lived on a farm).
DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: ... is used to treat allergic reactions. The body releases histamine during several types of allergic reactions and--to a lesser extent--during some viral infections, such as the common cold.
...
SIDE EFFECTS: ... Can commonly cause sedation, tiredness, sleepiness, dizziness

http://www.medicinenet.com/hydroxyzine/article.htm
Thus with Vistaril you can choose between: 1) Hubbard had a psychoneurosis and 2) Hubbard's own Allergy & Asthma Rundown doesn't work. I wonder whether a statement like "Allergy Rundown didn't work on Hubbard" would be enough to leave Church...

Yeah, but the needle marks were fresh and in the coroner's report (e.g. http://www.xenu.net/archive/hubbardcoroner/hubbard02.png) Dr. Denk had said that Hubbard had "displayed signs of dysphraisia [sic] for about eight days." For the non-MD among us, "Dysphasia is a partial or complete impairment of the ability to communicate resulting from brain injury." More fully, see http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/dysphasia

Allergy? Er, no chance.

Paul
 

byte301

Crusader
Yup, as long ago as his brain stroke. Why should that be strange?

It's strange because the last years of his life were strange. He wasn't seen by anyone and no one was supposed to know where he was hiding. And I think a lot of public DID think he was in hiding. MSH went to prison but we were just suppose to believe that the case was really about some xeroxed documents?

I heard rumors a couple of years before he kicked the bucket that he was more or less being held prisoner somewhere in the desert. All kinds of stuff was flying around about him because HE created the mystery by running from an indictment.

It was ALL bizarre. And the reason people would care about what he did before Dianetics is because he made up shit that he practically won WWII single handedly, he was a bloodbrother, he was the youngest Eagle Scout, yada, yada, yada. He manufactored his whole history and it was thrown in our faces for years and years. They are still standing by all that crap even though it's all bullshit and most of it has been proven to be bullshit.

He was source. So if source lies about his history what else did he lie about?
 
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