What is the one information that would have gotten you out sooner?

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Sure. But I don't think that's a reason to tell Scn'ists who are posting here and who are trying to be critical of the cult- to leave ESMB.

Who did that? Certainly not Emma. As far as I know, not me. I couldn't care less whether they're 'critical' of the Cult. It's much more fun to deal with those who are strong *supporters* and not namby pamby rationalizing apologists who are afraid to speak their minds about what they *really* think.

Enough 'acceptable truth'. Say it loud! I'm Clam and I'm Proud!

Zinj
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
Who did that? Certainly not Emma. As far as I know, not me. I couldn't care less whether they're 'critical' of the Cult. It's much more fun to deal with those who are strong *supporters* and not namby pamby rationalizing apologists who are afraid to speak their minds about what they *really* think.

Enough 'acceptable truth'. Say it loud! I'm Clam and I'm Proud!

Zinj

Jeemanee, Zinz.

I wonder how many people are on this board, who like me, don't care whether or not Scientology lives or dies!

The reason I left was due to the corruption - CO embezzling org funds and the Miscavage style of management. Think, "Your paranoid-psychotic Uncle Moe suddenly becoming your boss at work."

I do enjoy the war-stories from those who were in .....

But, really ..... put the criminals in prison (the embezzlers, the abusers, the cheats, the life stealers); the ones that remain can do what they want.
 
Jeemanee, Zinz.

I wonder how many people are on this board, who like me, don't care whether or not Scientology lives or dies!

The reason I left was due to the corruption - CO embezzling org funds and the Miscavage style of management. Think, "Your paranoid-psychotic Uncle Moe suddenly becoming your boss at work."

I do enjoy the war-stories from those who were in .....

But, really ..... put the criminals in prison (the embezzlers, the abusers, the cheats, the life stealers); the ones that remain can do what they want.


Yes, but you are "only an ex", whereas Z is a "passion campaigner for truth & righteousness" who has never had anything to do with scientology.

Who do you think this board is for anyway; ex-scientologists? :whistling:



Mark A. Baker, Former Member of the Co$ and Freezone Scientologist
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Who did that? Certainly not Emma. As far as I know, not me. I couldn't care less whether they're 'critical' of the Cult. It's much more fun to deal with those who are strong *supporters* and not namby pamby rationalizing apologists who are afraid to speak their minds about what they *really* think.

Enough 'acceptable truth'. Say it loud! I'm Clam and I'm Proud!

Zinj

I'm referring to some of the posted responses to Nicki and to OT8/ still in.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
OK, well it's in that tape and elsewhere. I do not have those, but let's set those aside for the moment.

Is there evidence that he was not an athiest?

Can we say that L Ron Hubbard believed in God?

For instance, is the Creed of the Church of Scientology, where there is a reference to "no agency less than God can set aside these rights" is this reference evidence that LRH believed in God? Well he sure set aside all the rights that exist in the Creed. Is his mention of God in the Creed evidence that he believed in God?

...

That BC tape was the first time I had ever heard him come right out and deny the existence of God. If I recall correctly, it was within the context of his "research" where he had determined that "we are not all one".
...

And when I do, I will rub it in everyone's face on the Internet who has ever doubted that I heard it! :)

Firstly, I think the underlined quote is exactly the same CRAPPO reference to God that insurance companies use to evade claim-payment by classifying something as an "act of God".

As for "We are not all one," I have reached the personal belief that without the ego and/or id then combine all the "thetans" in a Unversal blender, and there's "God". A single drop of water may not achieve much, but gallons per second coming out of a fire-hose can achieve quite a bit, and a whole ocean can achieve even more. That is how I see us as spiritual beings--each as a drop of water, each being it's own little life experiment, and when we all come together, there is the God of "creation".

The "water" analogy is my own, and while people may use it if they wish, I claim the © Copyright! So there!
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Yeah, must be really hard for OSA to find out what's going on wrt ESMB. I mean, they actually have to turn on their computer and like read stuff and all. Wow, that's incredibly difficult to do. Yep, never could do that without sending someone in to talk to people.

In any event, again, I was annoyed by a couple of the previous posts in that I feel I can identify very strongly with OT8/still in-Chicago Kid- because I was still in CofS and posting at the beginning. So were other people. Tory Bezazian actually came in (to a.r.s.) on an op of some sort for OSA. So, to those of you to whom this applies, before you tell someone they shouldn't be posting here because they're still in CofS or you think they might be, you might want to keep this in mind.

This is a very valid point. There's a guy on Youtube who is a huge LRH-devotee. He claims that he is acting of his own accord and not as a representative of the "church", yet he spouts CCHR as though it's his entire lexicon.

In amongst all the abuse he gets from the Youtube community in general, I have defended his right to believe what he chooses, and sent him my own messages supporting that right, but also asking him to "test" the truth for himself. To this end I have referred him here, in the hope that he will read enough stories of what has been going on behind the scenes to actually start questioning what he so fervently believes--and that would put him in exactly the position that fluffy describes: a current scio who is (hopefully) signed up to ESMB.

I see him as I was 20+ years ago--young, naive, believing that this was the answer and the ONLY ANSWER.

As someone else on this thread mentioned, we need people to look beneath the B/S so that they can see the feet of clay.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
This is a very valid point. There's a guy on Youtube who is a huge LRH-devotee. He claims that he is acting of his own accord and not as a representative of the "church", yet he spouts CCHR as though it's his entire lexicon.

In amongst all the abuse he gets from the Youtube community in general, I have defended his right to believe what he chooses, and sent him my own messages supporting that right, but also asking him to "test" the truth for himself. To this end I have referred him here, in the hope that he will read enough stories of what has been going on behind the scenes to actually start questioning what he so fervently believes--and that would put him in exactly the position that fluffy describes: a current scio who is (hopefully) signed up to ESMB.

I see him as I was 20+ years ago--young, naive, believing that this was the answer and the ONLY ANSWER.

As someone else on this thread mentioned, we need people to look beneath the B/S so that they can see the feet of clay.


Right. The internet is largely responsible for the resignation of many people from CofS.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for educating me on the recording dates alanzo

Yeah, you don't really forget it once you hear it.

It changes the whole religion you are in, especially if one of your first questions to a Scientologist was, "Does Scientology believe in God"?

But the PDCs were given in 1951. The BC lectures run from 1959 to around 1964. Although there are other tapes on the BC, what is referred to as "BC tapes" were those lectures Ron gave to auditors at Saint Hill Manor from 1959 to 1964.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Are you saying there was a GO in 1951 that Ron was referring to?

which tape was it?

No, he said "There is no guard" (meaning a member of the Guardian Office). That's why they had to cut it out. At least this is my version of a conspiracy theory, since we are at it.

:whistling:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I just ordered "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology" from Bridge's website.

I used my real name and I paid $15 on my American Express credit card.

Let's see if the Church of Scientology can engage in yet another sales transaction with me.

Remember - I am not a declared SP and thus all my certs are still fully in force.

I just want to hear the lecture and pick out the lies in it.

If they really believe in the freedom of speech, as the Creed of the Church of Scientology says they do, then this should be no problem for them.
 
In answer to the original question on this thread I'd say that if I had known that the catastrophic 1974 "Battle of Britain" S.O. mission (which totally crashed the U.K.) was entirely directed by LRH and Flag Orders and not by the psycho-Sibersky himself, I would have bailed right there.

I just figured Sibersky was nuts and Flag was being misinformed—they had to be right, of course. More fool me.

Could have saved many useful years of my life. Didn't finally cut the ties until 1986.

Oh well,

OL
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
OL, nice name, I think youre right about the B of B, but cant recall it too well without the halucinations I was having due to lack of sleep or food.
My biggest overt of the time was not blowing.:no:

I made up for it later though.:yes:


La La Lou Lou
 

justaguy

Patron Meritorious
Firstly, I think the underlined quote is exactly the same CRAPPO reference to God that insurance companies use to evade claim-payment by classifying something as an "act of God".

As for "We are not all one," I have reached the personal belief that without the ego and/or id then combine all the "thetans" in a Unversal blender, and there's "God". A single drop of water may not achieve much, but gallons per second coming out of a fire-hose can achieve quite a bit, and a whole ocean can achieve even more. That is how I see us as spiritual beings--each as a drop of water, each being it's own little life experiment, and when we all come together, there is the God of "creation".

The "water" analogy is my own, and while people may use it if they wish, I claim the © Copyright! So there!
Sorry, but my mother already came up with that one 20 years ago. Prior art.

:p
 

I AM

New Member
What is the one information that would have gotten you out sooner out of Scientology/out of the Church?

In other words: What was the missing information that kept you longer in than necessary?

I am talking here about concrete information (= something that you could hand out to somebody), not "experience on staff" or "experience with tech" or "well, the whole internet thing"...

I am not talking necessarily about what DID FINALLY GET you out. But what WOULD HAVE gotten you out if you WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT.
The truth got me out.
 
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