WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENTS IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?

[Anonycat]

Don't Freezone and Indies comment on sections other than this one?

Are we supposed to hold our tongues when we see someone doing and spreading harm and trying to entice more victims?

If we are than this is a de facto board approval of what gets said in this section.

They can make any comment they wish here. And that's how it should be.

But for others to not be allowed to contest what they say is tacit approval of what they are saying.

I think this rule, whether it is written of not, should be reexamined.

It simply is not OK and unfair as far as I am concerned for some people to be allowed to express their views without others having the right to challenge them.

The Anabaptist Jacques

I think Mark Bunker did that service to Anonymous, and it worked out pretty well; revealing the opinion that all is not well.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

I would like you to consider the agreements you may have made in your long and checkered history as a spiritual being in this universe. Now, I do not want you to discard those agreements yet, I just want you to consider them and why they were made.

When you intend something it happens unless there are counter intentions which you cannot overcome because you agree or agreed with them at some time in the past.

Consider these homely examples:

1. You intend to be a rock star but you do not wish to leave your girlfriend who will be snapped up by another as soon as you leave town.

2. You intend to be a rich engineer and make a great start until you discover girls in college and they require time and money.

3. As a little kid, you can read minds until your parents forcefully convince you that God does not want you to do that.


4. You see something miraculous occur or a being speaks to you about your future and when you share it with your mother or father, they say, “That’s nice dear, it’s time to get ready for supper” and you decide that it wasn’t important.


5. You want to help people and you discover technology that seems to allow you to do that and make a good living healing spiritual upsets. Then you discover that the Founder of the cult you are in had no intention of allowing you to succeed as a healer unless he could micromanage your every action.
-----

Consider the elements of a game as Hubbard described them: Freedoms, barriers, and purposes. He goes on to describe games in some detail but I have not seen much about the rules of the game and who sets the rules.

Maybe the rules are set by those who would entrap others into playing the game and the game begins when the others involved AGREE to play the game based on what they assume the rules are.

I feel that a game is based on agreement. The players must have agreement on some level to interact. They put their pieces or bodies on the playing field and play the game according to their understanding of the rules. We have seen examples of some players who play by their own rules and by this they change the complexion of the game.

Scientology started out as one game and in the seventies at least we joined in to play a game where everybody wins. The Founder of the game started changing the rules when others played it better than he did. "He" added rules to declare certain people non-players so that no one could challenge his authority. Then he added rules that stated that only he had the right and power to add to the rules and "He" added a para military "priesthood" to enforce his way of thinking.

When those he removed from the game started playing games of their own, his wrath was mighty and "He" swore vengeance, etc.

After that, the game became getting him and the game of setting beings free morphed into a battle of heretics against the "one true faith".
-----

You have all been part of agreements which outlived their purpose. Here today, in this universe, there may be agreements that are no longer valid although they made perfect sense at the time they were made.

If you were to revisit them and look at the objectively, how many of them do not make sense in present time?

Could you make better agreements and change your intentions so that you would be free to play a better game for yourself and for your family?

You sell blocks of hours aka intensives.

What is the total dollar value of undelivered hours of auditing that your clients have on account with you?

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

thanks ^^^, indeed, if indies want their own space without any criticisms or input and all, then go to to one of the established ones or make your own. It really isn't a huge deal, but ya has to remember that when you are here, it is essentially an 'ex' site, very few who have come through the fogginess of ol' Hub's construct, willingly want to continue in this vein. One thing that has always irked me about some of the indy crowd, is when a newbie comes out to say their thing, and suddenly gets (from you know who's) a bunch of blather from 'de tech does werk...but....) GAH!
Just a we thought du-jour. (and absolutely no disrespect implied or meant)




We be...man/woman kind.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

This 'is' the FZ, Indies section of the board.

If you aren't interested in FZ, like many, but not all forum members, the answer is to ignore the posts.

The board is for all brands of exes.

So live and let live.

M2

I'm rushing now, but is it possible (please) to create a differentiation (perhaps just using colour for the headings?) ... between the Freezone section and the rest of the board so that I (and others) will know immediately if stepping into an 'org or pro scientology like situation' ... I'd suggest red for danger (lol) but any colour would work.



Its very easy to say 'live and let live' but not always easy to comply with (and I dont always want to comply either) ... if the area is clearly marked at least I'll know that I'm in their territory because I really do forget to look first and wander in via today's posts.

I really dont want to be there ... (it's the last place I want to spend my time) so if colour can't be used is it possible (for me) to put the whole Freezone section (not individual posters) on ignore and if so how?

Thanks.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I'm rushing now, but is it possible (please) to create a differentiation (perhaps just using colour for the headings?) ... between the Freezone section and the rest of the board so that I (and others) will know immediately if stepping into an 'org or pro scientology like situation' ... I'd suggest red for danger (lol) but any colour would work.



Its very easy to say 'live and let live' but not always easy to comply with (and I dont always want to comply either) ... if the area is clearly marked at least I'll know that I'm in their territory because I really do forget to look first and wander in via today's posts.

I really dont want to be there ... (it's the last place I want to spend my time) so if colour can't be used is it possible (for me) to put the whole Freezone section (not individual posters) on ignore and if so how?

Thanks.

How about a swastika. (I kid the freezoners, indies, outties, and in-betweenies)

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Moderator 2]

Don't Freezone and Indies comment on sections other than this one?

Are we supposed to hold our tongues when we see someone doing and spreading harm and trying to entice more victims?

If we are than this is a de facto board approval of what gets said in this section.

They can make any comment they wish here. And that's how it should be.

But for others to not be allowed to contest what they say is tacit approval of what they are saying.

I think this rule, whether it is written of not, should be reexamined.

It simply is not OK and unfair as far as I am concerned for some people to be allowed to express their views without others having the right to challenge them.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Bolding mine. You make some excellent points.

It wasn't a rule, it was a moderator directive given in an effort to strike a balance and create a board for all exes to post where they may offer ideas and be challenged in an environment free from ad hom and ridicule.

Perhaps it was ill conceived.

My other option would have been to issue warnings for posts that were not in line with board rules, but as you know we favour the lighter touch in moderating here. .

M2

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Bolding mine. You make some excellent points.

It wasn't a rule, it was a moderator directive given in an effort to strike a balance and create a board for all exes to post where they may offer ideas and be challenged in an environment free from ad hom and ridicule.

Perhaps it was ill conceived.

My other option would have been to issue warnings for posts that were not in line with board rules, but as you know we favour the lighter touch in moderating here. .

M2

I understand about having and needing a balance.

I almost never enter into this section, and I think most exes don't either.

But I felt the particular posts of Old Auditor are destructive for two reasons:

1) He does seem to be luring people back into the old nonsense and

2) He is denigrating that which is spiritual by reducing it down to material aches and pains.

This is why it is obvious to me that he is a fraud; even if he believes himself what he is saying.

So I challenged him.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[OldAuditor]

Re: WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENT IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?

There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope.
That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else.

Some of you have been burned so badly by Scientology that you cannot conceive that there are people delivering services that help people to improve their lives. You can hold that position as long as you want.

Others of you are insistent that no one should look at anything that threatens your stable datums. In that you are right in alignment with the Pope on a Box. You are so damn sure of yourselves that you froth at the mouth and spew falsehoods like the cult leaders we abandoned long ago.

The Spiritual Rescue Technology that seems to invoke your worst nightmare is free to all who wish to use it. It says so right on the website. There is no belief involved in using SRT. You read it and if it indicates, you use it as directed and get the results that others have gotten. I get constant feedback from people using SRT and we upgrade our documentation as we continue to learn more about working with spiritual beings.

People who do not run from shadows have read the material and have been using it in solo sessions for months now. If they want help, I am available to give them coaching sessions but my goal is to have 1000 people soloing on the SRT processes in the next few years.

For those who got stirred up by my original post on reviewing old agreements, I apologize. That was not my intention at all. This post has been discussed on several other sites with positive results and I expected something similar on this forum since there are so many ex scientologists making the transition from fully indoctrinated to cheerfully insouciant.

 

[George Layton]

Now turn the thought around.

 

[Lone Star]

I'm rushing now, but is it possible (please) to create a differentiation (perhaps just using colour for the headings?) ... between the Freezone section and the rest of the board so that I (and others) will know immediately if stepping into an 'org or pro scientology like situation' ... I'd suggest red for danger (lol) but any colour would work.



Its very easy to say 'live and let live' but not always easy to comply with (and I dont always want to comply either) ... if the area is clearly marked at least I'll know that I'm in their territory because I really do forget to look first and wander in via today's posts.

I really dont want to be there ... (it's the last place I want to spend my time) so if colour can't be used is it possible (for me) to put the whole Freezone section (not individual posters) on ignore and if so how?

Thanks.

This thread is obviously an infomercial for the so-called Spiritual Rescue Technology of the poster Old Auditor. How about a sub-section within the Freezone section for infomercials?

 

[AnonKat]

Re: WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENT IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?

As long as you post here I will be here to support you

[video=youtube;yOGD1WkJJok]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGD1WkJJok[/video]

There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope.
That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else.

Some of you have been burned so badly by Scientology that you cannot conceive that there are people delivering services that help people to improve their lives. You can hold that position as long as you want.

Others of you are insistent that no one should look at anything that threatens your stable datums. In that you are right in alignment with the Pope on a Box. You are so damn sure of yourselves that you froth at the mouth and spew falsehoods like the cult leaders we abandoned long ago.

The Spiritual Rescue Technology that seems to invoke your worst nightmare is free to all who wish to use it. It says so right on the website. There is no belief involved in using SRT. You read it and if it indicates, you use it as directed and get the results that others have gotten. I get constant feedback from people using SRT and we upgrade our documentation as we continue to learn more about working with spiritual beings.

People who do not run from shadows have read the material and have been using it in solo sessions for months now. If they want help, I am available to give them coaching sessions but my goal is to have 1000 people soloing on the SRT processes in the next few years.

For those who got stirred up by my original post on reviewing old agreements, I apologize. That was not my intention at all. This post has been discussed on several other sites with positive results and I expected something similar on this forum since there are so many ex scientologists making the transition from fully indoctrinated to cheerfully insouciant.

 

[OldAuditor]

You sell blocks of hours aka intensives.

What is the total dollar value of undelivered hours of auditing that your clients have on account with you?

Dear TINO,

I do not sell blocks of hours aka intensives.
I sell auditing in whatever quantity my clients want and generally do not let them buy more than they can consume in a month.

Money on account is an obligation and most clients have only as much on account as they wish to have.

Most of my clients are soloing on the SRT processes as well as getting sessions from me. I would estimate that solo sessions are twenty times greater than what I personally deliver.

 

[AnonKat]

Dear TINO,

I do not sell blocks of hours aka intensives.
I sell auditing in whatever quantity my clients want and generally do not let them buy more than they can consume in a month.

Money on account is an obligation and most clients have only as much on account as they wish to have.

Most of my clients are soloing on the SRT processes as well as getting sessions from me. I would estimate that solo sessions are twenty times greater than what I personally deliver.

Damn you are a better Buhdist than me taking all the atacks and still keeping it cool

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Re: WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENT IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?

There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope.
That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else.

Some of you have been burned so badly by Scientology that you cannot conceive that there are people delivering services that help people to improve their lives. You can hold that position as long as you want.

Others of you are insistent that no one should look at anything that threatens your stable datums. In that you are right in alignment with the Pope on a Box. You are so damn sure of yourselves that you froth at the mouth and spew falsehoods like the cult leaders we abandoned long ago.

The Spiritual Rescue Technology that seems to invoke your worst nightmare is free to all who wish to use it. It says so right on the website. There is no belief involved in using SRT. You read it and if it indicates, you use it as directed and get the results that others have gotten. I get constant feedback from people using SRT and we upgrade our documentation as we continue to learn more about working with spiritual beings.

People who do not run from shadows have read the material and have been using it in solo sessions for months now. If they want help, I am available to give them coaching sessions but my goal is to have 1000 people soloing on the SRT processes in the next few years.

For those who got stirred up by my original post on reviewing old agreements, I apologize. That was not my intention at all. This post has been discussed on several other sites with positive results and I expected something similar on this forum since there are so many ex scientologists making the transition from fully indoctrinated to cheerfully insouciant.

Your statement is a dishonest one, and that tells me enough.

You say belief is not invovled in using SRT.

If you are holdng the cans you are believing in it.

And you are dishonest in your portrayal of me.

I have spiritual certainty.

But you are reducing spiritual truth to cans, electrical readings, aches and pains, and attitudes.

<edit; ad hom, M2>

You are about making money using mechanical and electrical devices in your pretended spiritual truth.

<same again, M2>

There is nothing spiritual about what you are doing.

Why don't you have the guts to admit that you are really about the material?

I respect the spiritual; you use the word as part of a sales pitch.

<close, but no cigar. Ad Hom. M2>.

Of course, you'll respond to this with your condescending Joe Izuzu sales pitch.

But I'm pretty sure you are not fooling anyone here.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Re: WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENT IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?

Your statement is a dishonest one, and that tells me enough.

You say belief is not invovled in using SRT.

If you are holdng the cans you are believing in it.

And you are dishonest in your portrayal of me.

I have spiritual certainty.

But you are reducing spiritual truth to cans, electrical readings, aches and pains, and attitudes.

<edit; ad hom, M2>

You are about making money using mechanical and electrical devices in your pretended spiritual truth.

<same again, M2>

There is nothing spiritual about what you are doing.

Why don't you have the guts to admit that you are really about the material?

I respect the spiritual; you use the word as part of a sales pitch.

<close, but no cigar. Ad Hom. M2>.

Of course, you'll respond to this with your condescending Joe Izuzu sales pitch.

But I'm pretty sure you are not fooling anyone here.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Ok. So my post was edited for using an Ad Homina...Homina...Homina...

That's cool. I did.

I apologize.

So I will rephrase it.

It is my observation that the inconsistencies and incongruity of Old Auditor's claim that he is addressing the spiritual through the use of cans and an electrical device is not authentic.

By definition a spiritual entity is outside of the physical universe and therefore cannot be measured as it does not contain space and time.

If Old Auditor said he addressed the mind instead of the spirit, then I might say that is possible.

Except I would ask if the mind is inside the body or outside of the body.

And if it is outside of the body how could an electrical flow passing through the body be effected by something outside of the body?

And just to make my position clear (no pun intended), despite Old Auditor's insinuation that I am " is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope.
That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else."

I am a Platonist. I believe in the spiritual, but I do not consider the spiritual subject to tin cans an electrical devices.

And as a Platonist I certainly have not lost hope nor do I believe that there is no hope for others.

As a Platonist though, I do believe that I can often tell when someone is misleading others about what is spiritual.

It is the Allegory of the Cave.

And it is my contention that Old Auditor is just another example of someone who is trapped at looking at shadows and thinks he understands reality.

http://youtu.be/69F7GhASOdM

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

My Ad Homina...

http://youtu.be/wK9odsWwfIo

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[I told you I was trouble]

snipped.

Posted by OldAuditor

There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope.
That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else.

That is yet another insulting, derogatory and mean spirited comment, albeit generalised to avoid moderation.

Others of you are insistent that no one should look at anything that threatens your stable datums. In that you are right in alignment with the Pope on a Box. You are so damn sure of yourselves that you froth at the mouth and spew falsehoods like the cult leaders we abandoned long ago.

Who exactly are you referring to and what are these falsehoods?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

And just for the record I said that I have spiritual certainty.

That is phrased poorly, because I don't think anyone can be certain about it.

I should say that as a Platonist, I intuitively believe in the spiritual world of which the real world is but a shadowy reflection.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[freethinker]

Mirror image rule... the offer and the acceptance must contain the same language, google it up.

In my view, any agreement I make with another is contingent upon the other party negotiating in good faith, and with no hidden intentions that are 180 degrees different that what is stated up front.

If someone gets conned by another who had planned to defraud you to begin with than it makes no sense to honor such agreements.



I don't believe that that IS the way that Scientology started out, although it surely appeared that way to many.

But Hubbard's "admissions" that have been published show that his intention for the game wasn't quite as advertised.

 

[freethinker]

Here's something for you to think about...

You can ask any man who is in jail why he is there and at the end of the convesration, if he is willing to tell you, he will say, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Now, this is not to say that they all change their mind but, when a man says ,it seemed like a good idea at the time, there is a really good chance he has changed his mind and would not do it again.

So what happened here, is that he changed his mind. Why is he still in prison?

Because others have not changed their mind about him.

So, he is really a prisoner of what others think and not what he really is.

This is Scientology. No matter how much you change your mind, no matter what you do that shows otherwise, it is what you did that you are judged by so you can never be free of your past if people don't accept that you have changed.

No matter how many OW writ-ups or sec checks you get, you will never be done with your past until you are looked upon for what you are doing, and not what you have done.

So you can change your mind about everything but you will be judged on what you did and not on what you are now.

People can change of their own life by choosing to any time they want but getting others to see what they are now instead of what they were is where the key lies.

Some people do not really change and they lie about changing but many do except they are judged by their past. They can only break cleanly by finding new people to live with if they have changed because those people wil only judge you for what you are now.

In other words, you do it and not some process.

You are just selling re-packaged Scientology and any one here can see that in your posts. you are not fooling anyone, including those who agree with you.

I would like you to consider the agreements you may have made in your long and checkered history as a spiritual being in this universe. Now, I do not want you to discard those agreements yet, I just want you to consider them and why they were made.

When you intend something it happens unless there are counter intentions which you cannot overcome because you agree or agreed with them at some time in the past.

Consider these homely examples:

1. You intend to be a rock star but you do not wish to leave your girlfriend who will be snapped up by another as soon as you leave town.

2. You intend to be a rich engineer and make a great start until you discover girls in college and they require time and money.

3. As a little kid, you can read minds until your parents forcefully convince you that God does not want you to do that.


4. You see something miraculous occur or a being speaks to you about your future and when you share it with your mother or father, they say, “That’s nice dear, it’s time to get ready for supper” and you decide that it wasn’t important.


5. You want to help people and you discover technology that seems to allow you to do that and make a good living healing spiritual upsets. Then you discover that the Founder of the cult you are in had no intention of allowing you to succeed as a healer unless he could micromanage your every action.
-----

Consider the elements of a game as Hubbard described them: Freedoms, barriers, and purposes. He goes on to describe games in some detail but I have not seen much about the rules of the game and who sets the rules.

Maybe the rules are set by those who would entrap others into playing the game and the game begins when the others involved AGREE to play the game based on what they assume the rules are.

I feel that a game is based on agreement. The players must have agreement on some level to interact. They put their pieces or bodies on the playing field and play the game according to their understanding of the rules. We have seen examples of some players who play by their own rules and by this they change the complexion of the game.

Scientology started out as one game and in the seventies at least we joined in to play a game where everybody wins. The Founder of the game started changing the rules when others played it better than he did. "He" added rules to declare certain people non-players so that no one could challenge his authority. Then he added rules that stated that only he had the right and power to add to the rules and "He" added a para military "priesthood" to enforce his way of thinking.

When those he removed from the game started playing games of their own, his wrath was mighty and "He" swore vengeance, etc.

After that, the game became getting him and the game of setting beings free morphed into a battle of heretics against the "one true faith".
-----

You have all been part of agreements which outlived their purpose. Here today, in this universe, there may be agreements that are no longer valid although they made perfect sense at the time they were made.

If you were to revisit them and look at the objectively, how many of them do not make sense in present time?

Could you make better agreements and change your intentions so that you would be free to play a better game for yourself and for your family?