The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
How cute!
The auditor is so cute when his TRs go out and he reacts.
Do you react like that around your PCs BTs?
The Anabaptist Jacques
WHAT LONG TERM AGREEMENTS IS IS IT OK TO BREAK?
- Thread starter OldAuditor
- Start date
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How cute!
The auditor is so cute when his TRs go out and he reacts.
Do you react like that around your PCs BTs?
The Anabaptist Jacques
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
TG1
Angelic Poster
This thread has raised numerous issues that I find worth responding to.
1. Censorship v. ad homs -
I don't see any call by Moderator 2 for censorship. Ad homs lead to nastier ad homs, which lead to whatever is nastier than ad homs, e.g., calls for bannings, raeg-quits, and actual bannings. The Board rules encourage free expression of all kinds and require that debates observe the rules of civilized discourse.
2. The Freezone Forum -
This is a forum where things Freezone are discussable. It is NOT a place free of criticism of Freezone practices. I've never heard a mod or Emma suggest that.
3. Putting people on IGNORE -
IGNORE is useful for those of us (certainly including me) who decide we'd rather not listen to people we find ignorant, irritating, or so inflammatory they raise our blood pressure or incite us to verbal violence. And since verbal violence is against Board rules, sometimes the IGNORE function has kept me from violating board rules. The button is under my control. I can turn it on and off at will. I use it in different ways -- as an emotional governor, to remind me that this poster is on my "stupid" list, or just as an efficiency tool.
4. Old Auditor - is he a Scientologist in sheep's clothing?
You be the judge. Look at this site published by Old Auditor: http://workabletechnology.com/?page_id=505 . He refers to preclears, OTs, grade chart, auditing -- all the things that Scientology is about. He's perfectly welcome to be a Scientologist. But to pretend here that he's doing something different is disingenuous. It's also tacky.
5. Is Old Auditor trolling?
Maybe. ITYIWT quoted Old Auditor's obvious snark: "There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope. That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else." That's Scientology-speak for "You're going to hell and taking your friends with you!" Yes, it's snark, but it's also amusing to those of us who have graduated beyond hoping this bullshit will turn out to be true if we just buy more auditing or attempt one more harebrained C/S. To suggest that those of us who object to Old Auditor's legacy goal ("... my goal is to have 1000 people soloing on the SRT processes in the next few years") are "without hope" because we think his goal is silly.
6. Does Old Auditor have the right to speak his mind here?
Yes. Of course. But those who don't agree with him also have the right to criticize his opinions and suggestions. But board rules require that we must do that without ad hom. We can use reason or cite examples or even just express our disagreement. Even if every post Old Auditor made here were followed with twenty posts of "I disagree! Your Scientology is harmful!" he can't holler, "Harassment!" We have the right to oppose Scientology here. He has the obligation of persuading others of the efficacy of his Scientology (whether standard or squirrel) -- or of his Oldauditorology (if he maintains that what he's doing is not Scientology) -- against a backdrop of Scientology's record of abuse, idiocy, extortion, disaffection, and pissed off people. If he prefers to express himself in a forum where he'll would like to be heard better over the noise of those who don't agree with him, he is perfectly welcome to go find another forum in which he doesn't have to holler so loud.
My two cents' worth.
TG1
1. Censorship v. ad homs -
I don't see any call by Moderator 2 for censorship. Ad homs lead to nastier ad homs, which lead to whatever is nastier than ad homs, e.g., calls for bannings, raeg-quits, and actual bannings. The Board rules encourage free expression of all kinds and require that debates observe the rules of civilized discourse.
2. The Freezone Forum -
This is a forum where things Freezone are discussable. It is NOT a place free of criticism of Freezone practices. I've never heard a mod or Emma suggest that.
3. Putting people on IGNORE -
IGNORE is useful for those of us (certainly including me) who decide we'd rather not listen to people we find ignorant, irritating, or so inflammatory they raise our blood pressure or incite us to verbal violence. And since verbal violence is against Board rules, sometimes the IGNORE function has kept me from violating board rules. The button is under my control. I can turn it on and off at will. I use it in different ways -- as an emotional governor, to remind me that this poster is on my "stupid" list, or just as an efficiency tool.
4. Old Auditor - is he a Scientologist in sheep's clothing?
You be the judge. Look at this site published by Old Auditor: http://workabletechnology.com/?page_id=505 . He refers to preclears, OTs, grade chart, auditing -- all the things that Scientology is about. He's perfectly welcome to be a Scientologist. But to pretend here that he's doing something different is disingenuous. It's also tacky.
5. Is Old Auditor trolling?
Maybe. ITYIWT quoted Old Auditor's obvious snark: "There is only one thing sorrier than a person who has lost all hope. That is some one who wants to make sure there is no hope for anyone else." That's Scientology-speak for "You're going to hell and taking your friends with you!" Yes, it's snark, but it's also amusing to those of us who have graduated beyond hoping this bullshit will turn out to be true if we just buy more auditing or attempt one more harebrained C/S. To suggest that those of us who object to Old Auditor's legacy goal ("... my goal is to have 1000 people soloing on the SRT processes in the next few years") are "without hope" because we think his goal is silly.
6. Does Old Auditor have the right to speak his mind here?
Yes. Of course. But those who don't agree with him also have the right to criticize his opinions and suggestions. But board rules require that we must do that without ad hom. We can use reason or cite examples or even just express our disagreement. Even if every post Old Auditor made here were followed with twenty posts of "I disagree! Your Scientology is harmful!" he can't holler, "Harassment!" We have the right to oppose Scientology here. He has the obligation of persuading others of the efficacy of his Scientology (whether standard or squirrel) -- or of his Oldauditorology (if he maintains that what he's doing is not Scientology) -- against a backdrop of Scientology's record of abuse, idiocy, extortion, disaffection, and pissed off people. If he prefers to express himself in a forum where he'll would like to be heard better over the noise of those who don't agree with him, he is perfectly welcome to go find another forum in which he doesn't have to holler so loud.
My two cents' worth.
TG1
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He-man
Hero extraordinary
It saddens me that you can not see further then that. thanks for defining other peoples opinions for them rather then responding to them, and thanks for proving that all you can do, is giving insult rather then discussing.
Who is put to shame?
You state:"... have gone on to lead normal lives with kids and jobs and careers and we still find time to help those who are having trouble recovering from the cult. We "misguided" positive thinkers you sneer at are getting on with life and looking at new vistas while you roam the dark corners of ESMB looking for any signs of hope so you can squash them before they spread.
It appears that you have left Hubbard's cult only to found one of your own: "Life is awful and can't get better".."
Wow, you really have a high awareness of how others lives have gone on after getting out of the "church".
"Get on with your life" - What a dissapointment, really.
Speaking from a personal point of view - My life improved after I stopped trying to use the "tech" of scientology and thank the gods for that. Could not be more happier, as if that was ever the point of why you were being criticized?
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
He-man
Hero extraordinary
Fuck yeah!
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Yes, but only if you promise to stop being bitter and clingy, cos nobody wants that.
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
2D or not 2D, that is the question (sorry, couldn't resist the Techspeak). Only if you pm Emma first and she and Tansi both agree to it, so I've been told
He-man
Hero extraordinary
Yes, but only if you promise to stop being bitter and clingy, cos nobody wants that.
Nothing like a clinging Veggie hanging on to your shoulder bitterly sucking your life dry, or so I've been told.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Don't call Taj a veggie ... he's a peach, a very sweet one.
Call Old Auditor whatever you like though (joking!!!).
He-man
Hero extraordinary
Don't call Taj a veggie ... he's a peach, a very sweet one.
Call Old Auditor whatever you like though (joking!!!).
EDIT: No name calling is needed, it would be wrong of me, I just remember we just to call "clingers" "Veggies" in Uni is all
[video=youtube;rdctx_-BZMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdctx_-BZMY[/video]
Lone Star
Crusader
Well.....Did Tommy Davis write that for you? I can see the self righteous/others condemning with a sneering attitude is alive and well with you. You may call your practice something else, but you are essentially still very much a Hubbardian Scientologist. You should be so proud.
On the whole I have no problem with members of ESMB discussing aspects of the tech they still like as long as they do it in the Freezone/Tech section. What you are doing though is peddling your wares. You are using ESMB as a base of potential customers. And to that I say.....<edit, disrespectful M2>.
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I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yep, this is how it always used to be on here and I think still is; although there have always been a couple of people who didn't think we should have the right to do it at all on ESMB, such as Ladybird (RIP), mostly it's been accepted more or less with a shrug from the bulk of the members here.
Openly "regging" on here, though, or trying to recruit people for an auditing or other practice is different because tbh it's not what the board is here for.
OldAuditor
Patron with Honors
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
BTW, this isn't just true of the FZ; I had someone here (now banned) try to recruit me for Idenics, and I wasn't impressed. This isn't the place for any kind of pressure.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
I am more than happy to answer questions and discuss beliefs with anyone, even those who are in their "Deliverance" valence.
I love it when you talk dirty.
http://youtu.be/PH6n-1anfxo
The Anabaptist Jacques
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
I am more than happy to answer questions and discuss beliefs with anyone, even those who are in their "Deliverance" valence.
Okay. So tell me how Kant relates to your auditing.
Specifically this:
http://youtu.be/DC8ioZkb-Sc
The Anabaptist Jacques
TG1
Angelic Poster
Discussing Scientology and Scientology-derived tech in the FZ forum is guaranteed to earn much less critical commentary from those "without hope" ...
... than advertising your specialized tech and for-pay services (which, apparently, only you alone in the whole wide world can provide) and announcing your goal to attract 1,000 followers to become solo-auditors in thrall to your movement.
Yeah, those do seem to be two different things, although the line between them is not black and white.
Ultimately, the responsibility for not being booed off the stage depends on the communication skills, past record, reputation, charm and "the act" of the performer.
In other words, if you get booed off the stage, it ain't necessarily the hecklers' fault.
TG1
OldAuditor
Patron with Honors
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