What means cause over MEST?

newlife

Patron
Scientology is a philosophy that says it has a route that can be used to achieve a state of “being cause over life, thought, matter, energy space and time.”
This route is called “The Bridge”.

Some have been following this route with more or less succes, but when reaching the end of the Bridge, they looked at their life or the state they were in, and they decided that they were not at ALL cause over life or MEST, and therefore concluded that the Scientology philosophy was a scam.

Others never tried to follow this route themselves, but they knew other people who had been deceived and abused by an organization who claims to apply this Scientology philosophy, and therefore they as well concluded that the Scientology philosophy was a scam.

Others cannot conceive of any higher spiritual state at all, and therefore are bluntly fighting any and all ideas in that direction.

Some people in Scientology have a certain concept of OT that consist of “being total cause” or “being able to cause anything they want, in the fullest sense of the word.”
It is a concept similar as the concept of GOD that my father and mother teached me when I was young.
God was allmighty. All things stemmed from God. The good things, the bad things, it all came from God.
In other words: God was total Cause.

The problem with this concept is that if ONE person is total cause, then all others are at effect.
Theoretically it is impossible to bring two people to a state of total cause in the same universe. It would be also an undesirable state.
Anyone who wants to be total cause in this universe should better not try to achieve it with Scientology, because he will not reach his goals with it.
As a side note: people who are very fixated and determined on being cause themselves must be at the same time very, very busy in making others effect. Hmm…, let me see, in what organization have I seen that?

Then there are people who have the idea that “being cause over MEST” means that an OT should be able to do supernatural things, like for example bending forks without physically touching them.
Well, supernatural phenomena DO exist.
But according to the Scientology philosophy this universe is based on agreements.
In other words, everything around us exists because we all agree that it exists.
There is gravity because we all agree there is gravity; water is wet, because we all agree that water is wet, and so on.
Anyone who is in this universe, is agreeing with the laws of this universe, otherwise he wouldn’t be here.

Whatever one thinks of this theory, it means that according to the Scientology philosophy doing things like telekinesis would be a very, very complicated trick.
Personally I have no clue how people can do it.
Because they have to agree and disagree at the same time and that sounds very complicated.
To me it would be similar as driving with your car from A to B and at exactly the same time driving your car from B to A.

These things are NOT teached in Scientology.
There is NO essay called: HCOB How to bend forks.
There are NO (upper)levels in Scientology that have as their end product: “The ability to bend forks.”
Anyone who practices Scientology with the goal to achieve a state of “being able to do supernatural things” is sitting in the wrong plane.

A very important principle in the Scientology philosophy is the idea of “gradient scales.”
That means simply that concepts like “good and bad” and “right and wrong” have many steps in between them. Black can always be blacker and white can always be whiter and there are countless steps in between.
My personal opinion is that if a person can not think with this principle or does not want to think with this principle, then he will not be able to understand Scientology.
If I say about a person: “He is a good man”, that doesn’t mean that he is a holy saint who will never do anything wrong.
If I say about a person: “He is cause”, that doesn’t mean he is an almighty god that will never be effect.

According to Scientology philosophy “there is a gradient scale of OT.
It’s not an absolute. One is as OT as he can cause things.” (quote LRH)

This means that anyone, wether he practices Scientology or not, is to a certain degree OT.
Anyone is to a certain degree cause over Life and MEST.

But there are also factors in anyone’s life, which he is unknowingly or unwillingly the effect of.

Scientology is a way to help a person in removing those factors.

That’s all.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Wouldn't it be more honest to simply say, "The OT levels don't make OTs according to L. Ron Hubbard's definition of OT, but we do them anyway, because we're Scientologists."

From the Scientology 'Tech Dictionary':

"Operating Thetan, a thetan exterior who can have but doesn't have to have a body in order to control or operate thought, life, matter, energy, space and time... an individual who can operate totally independently of his body whether he had one or didn't have one... a being at cause over matter, energy, space and time, form and life. Operating comes from 'able to operate without dependency on things'... ability to operate functionally against or with MEST and other life forms... this state of being is attained by drills and familiarity after the state of Clear has been obtained."

-snip-
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Cause over MEST: It means you can make a good cup of coffee, then sit down and enjoy it, by yourself, or with company.

That's very OT. :coolwink:
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Mind over Matter

http://www.williamjames.com/Folklore/MINDOVER.htm

An interesting insight into the psychological dynamics of such events is provided by the great Swiss psychiatrist Carl G. Jung -- who developed the concept of synchronicity as an acausal explanatory principle. In 1909, Jung visited his mentor Sigmund Freud in Vienna, and at one point asked him his opinion of psychic phenomena. Although Freud later changed his mind on the subject, at that time he dismissed the likelihood that such events could occur. Jung narrates an uncanny incident that occurred in the course of this conversation.

While Freud was going on in this way, I had a curious sensation. It was as if my diaphragm was made of iron and becoming red-hot -- a glowing vault. And at that moment there was such a loud report in the bookcase, which stood right next to us, that we both started up in alarm, fearing the thing was going to topple over us. I said to Freud: "There, that is an example of a so-called catalytic exteriorisation phenomenon."

"Oh come," he explained. "That is sheer bosh."

"It is not," I replied. "You are mistaken, Herr Professor. And to prove my point I now predict that in a moment there will be another loud report!" Sure enough, no sooner had I said the words than the same detonation went off in the bookcase.

To this day I do not know what gave me this certainty. But I knew beyond a doubt that the report would come again. Freud only stared aghast at me. I do not know what was in his mind, or what his look meant. In any case, this incident aroused his mistrust of me, and I had the feeling that I had done something against him. I never afterwards discussed the incident with him.
 
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AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
That's what is so clever about LRH's definition of OT. It can mean anything to anyone. And no one who becomes 'OT' has to explain, in any detail, what it means to them other than they are happy or 'blown away'.

What does it mean? Anything you want it to. There, now you don't have to spend $300,000 dollars to find out.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
What means cause over MEST? Well, according to Scientology some "routine" activities would include bringing goldfish back to life, manipulating the activities of a crane and shovel, healing injured cats, putting out fires using just thought, and exteriorising so as to travel vast distances and cure someone in hospital suffering from double pnuemonia . . .

5387500904_cd50e75b72.jpg
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I agree that it's a mind over matter thing. I just don't think Scn lives up to its promise(s). I do personally think (just my opinion) that people who progress spiritually can improve their mind over matter skills. But frankly, I think chasing that is not a good idea. Most people who yearn for OT abilities and such haven't mastered the everyday ones well enough, IMO.
 

Feral

Rogue male
What means cause over MEST? Well, according to Scientology some "routine" activities would include bringing goldfish back to life, manipulating the activities of a crane and shovel, healing injured cats, putting out fires using just thought, and exteriorising so as to travel vast distances and cure someone in hospital suffering from double pnuemonia . . .

5387500904_cd50e75b72.jpg

That first story about the goldfish is from Misty Alexander, her husband and her are both CL12s. These sorts of wins are'nt cause over MEST type wins, each time they claim to have influenced MEST through a LIFE unit. For some reason this seems to be the normal type win OTs seem to have more commonly, it more aligns with their experience in auditing BTs on the pre OT levels.

I've done a lot of this kind of thing, trying to save animals and heal people by blowing bts or influencing the being in the area favourably, of course it doesn't hardly ever work, but it appears to occasionally when the target was going to recover anyway,or by mechanisms not really understood that are part of human ability which of course could well happen from time to time. Then you say OMFG how OT am I!!!!! Going up the bridge WAS sure worth all the pain and abuse!
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
...
According to Scientology philosophy “there is a gradient scale of OT.
It’s not an absolute. One is as OT as he can cause things.” (quote LRH)

This means that anyone, whether he practices Scientology or not, is to a certain degree OT.
Anyone is to a certain degree cause over Life and MEST.
...

You are into contradictions here.

OT definition specifically means to operate the MEST directly without using a body.


People here have been conned to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or decades to reach for OT, eventually we didn't got what was promised and now you come and say "sorry guys, you were OTs already if you were just able move your body around!". Bullshit!
 
Cause over MEST: It means you can make a good cup of coffee, then sit down and enjoy it, by yourself, or with company.

That's very OT. :coolwink:

That's for pre-OTs. For OTs you just add..must not use any body parts or any physical matter to do so. Simple.
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
What means cause over MEST? Well, according to Scientology some "routine" activities would include bringing goldfish back to life, manipulating the activities of a crane and shovel, healing injured cats, putting out fires using just thought, and exteriorising so as to travel vast distances and cure someone in hospital suffering from double pnuemonia . . .

Interviewer: "So OT, what did you do today?"
OT: "Well I brought a goldfish back to life."

Interviewer: "Wow, tell me about that."
OT: "Well it was no big deal; I just gave it a nerve assist."

Interviewer: "Oh come on, you are so humble. Of course it's a big deal."
OT: "Yes, but unfortunately the cat had half eaten it, so I probably should have left well enough alone. It doesn't swim real well now, or breathe for that matter."

Interviewer: "Well OK did you do anything else?"
OT: "Well I did the crane and shovel thing and so forth."

Interviewer: "Wow, tell me about that."
OT: "Um well I just put the bird under my left arm and held the shovel in my right hand and manipulated them."

Interviewer: "That's fantastic, did you do anything else?"
OT: "Does the fire thing count?"

Interviewer: "Of course, tell me about that."
OT: "Well I thought about starting a fire but I didn't do it."

Interviewer: "Brilliant; put out a fire with your mind. What about exteriorising with full perception?"
OT: "No I can't do that yet, I'm only OTXIV, but I DID drive the injured cat to the vet."

Interviewer: "Thank you, most impressive."


LTG
 
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