What means cause over MEST?

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Never ceases to amaze me that Scientologists will tell you "reality is agreement" but none of them can agree on what OT means. By their own logic, this lack of agreement must, therefore, conclude that there is no such thing as OT.

STOP IT.

There might be Scientologists reading this thread and your astute observation may cause their heads to explode.

LTG
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

please give me a quote where LRH PROMISES

From a thread that discusses that...

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

Prominently advertised "Senior Policy": "We always deliver what we promise."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freezoneorg

Much later... quietly...

"...of course, we really didn't promise anything."

http://internationalfreezone.net

http://internationalfreezone.net/Purposes.shtml

http://internationalfreezone.net/aims.shtml

The most frequently used saying in Scientology is "Scientology works!" The term "technology" implies workability, ie. results.

"We always deliver what we promise." "Scientology works!"

"Do your Bridge outside the C of S."

"The Bridge to Total Freedom."

"The Classification Gradation and Awareness Chart."

"End result." "Ability gained."

http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part02/Chp06/pg0181_1.html

"We promised nothing... hee hee hee..."




:roflmao: OH MY GOD, I THINK I JUST ATTAINED A RELEASE STATE!!!

That was sheer, unadulterated, unfiltered, unabridged, un-spun, raw TRUTH in your post. Thank you!

I was losing faith in mankind on this thread. It was awful to read some of those posts. It stopped me, stunned, wondering just how far beyond the threshold of delusion some of these lovely people's minds had traveled atop the madly spinning wheels of the Hubbard mindset.

Geez!!! I feel like I was just air-rescued from a blazing hot desert and handed an icy cold beer.

I owe you Veda, I owe you!

Quote below is from Krel or Ron's Org:

-snip-

-------------------------
Clearing a planet and freeing everyone (10 X 10 to the 40th power number of thetans) is a very BIG GAME.

Welcome to the biggest game in the Physical Universe. You have very few teammates, so anyone playing the Freeing Game has to be up for it and keep team members going as well as himself in all possible ways.

The opposition has the control of most of the resources on the planet to use against us. But it is only physical universe stuff, and we can handle that from a much "higher viewpoint". After all, this universe was just thought up by all of us playing together, and a thought can change it, or any part of it, instantly. We have all done that to some extent, whether we realize it or not. And we have a wealth of technology available to expand that ability beyond your wildest imaginings!

To a BIG, WILD, FUN GAME!!!

Krel
Loyal Officer
Galactic Patrol
Mission: Planet Earth

April 17, 2008, Earth Time

Newlife, as a Ron's Orger http://galac-patra.narod.ru/index.html, and a person with a Ron's Org center providing services, have you ever met Krel?
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
Where does LRH promise anyone an ability to operate things without the body in this MEST world?

Where did he actually promise anyone anything at all?
As far as I know it's up to every person himself what he gets out of Scientology.

A thread with all LRH failed promises would be interesting to have, although it may become as long as his written and spoken words. :D

I remember one in particular. I'm going to write it with my own words as I remember it, back translated from my language, so that maybe someone recognizes it and write it exactly as it is in English.

"... the more you advance on the levels, all the automacities and miraculous changes of state fall under your control and are in your hands. You could be the storm or the sunset and you would be aware of what you were doing."


.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm waiting for the Cause over Credit Card RD or CCCRD where you gain the ability to hand over all credit cards without pause or hesitation to all reges that approach you. I think that's the kind of "Cause over MEST" they're really going for.
 

newlife

Patron
A thread with all LRH failed promises would be interesting to have, although it may become as long as his written and spoken words. :D

I remember one in particular. I'm going to write it with my own words as I remember it, back translated from my language, so that maybe someone recognizes it and write it exactly as it is in English.

"... the more you advance on the levels, all the automacities and miraculous changes of state fall under your control and are in your hands. You could be the storm or the sunset and you would be aware of what you were doing."


.

Okay, let’s say that this is the correct quote.

A statement that “you (in general) could be the storm or the sunset” is not the same as
a promise that says, “You Mr. Mostlylurker will be the storm or the sunset.”

Further, I wonder in what way you duplicate this sentence and what is your idea of being the storm or the sunset.
Do you have the idea that you would be able like a kind of allmighty God to be total cause over the sunset in this material universe?
That’s an interesting idea.
But what about all the others who would gain this ability too?
Perhaps you, being an allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the west, but another allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the east.

Are you telling me that you believed this and that you were disappointed because it didn’t happen?

When I was very young I was a Christian and I loved to discuss topics of the Bible with Jehova Witnesses.
At that time I learned that people could have a very different line of thinking and duplicating.
Neither them or me was always totally right or wrong, but we sure had a different way of looking at the Bible.

It seems that you are very disappointed about the Scientology philosophy itself.
I understand that.
Just take into account that others can have a different way of looking at the stuff and are very happy with it.
.
.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
...
It seems that you are very disappointed about the Scientology philosophy itself.
I understand that.
Just take into account that others can have a different way of looking at the stuff and are very happy with it.
.
.

I'm not against the philosophy. I'm against the use LRH made of the philosopy: he enslaved people. He promised unattainable results in exchange for money, free labour, obedience. He promised that with our abnegation and total compliance with his will we would become OT, and gave a precise definition of OT, that you seem to ignore.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Okay, let’s say that this is the correct quote.

A statement that “you (in general) could be the storm or the sunset” is not the same as
a promise that says, “You Mr. Mostlylurker will be the storm or the sunset.”

Further, I wonder in what way you duplicate this sentence and what is your idea of being the storm or the sunset.
Do you have the idea that you would be able like a kind of allmighty God to be total cause over the sunset in this material universe?
That’s an interesting idea.
But what about all the others who would gain this ability too?
Perhaps you, being an allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the west, but another allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the east.

Are you telling me that you believed this and that you were disappointed because it didn’t happen?

When I was very young I was a Christian and I loved to discuss topics of the Bible with Jehova Witnesses.
At that time I learned that people could have a very different line of thinking and duplicating.
Neither them or me was always totally right or wrong, but we sure had a different way of looking at the Bible.

It seems that you are very disappointed about the Scientology philosophy itself.

I understand that.
Just take into account that others can have a different way of looking at the stuff and are very happy with it.

A major problem with "the philosophy" is that Hubbard wove nasty, evil, and destructive ideas directly into "the philosophy".

I have said it before and I will say it again. Support of "the philosophy" is FAR TOO GENERAL of a statement. So, you say that you are "happy with" the philosopy. Hubbard wrote the idea of disconnection into his philosophy, AND the list of suppressive acts clearly includes the that ANYONE who finds fault with Scn management or Hubbard is guilty of a suppressive act. Are you "happy" with THAT part of the philosophy?

Hubbard stated that enemies should be tricked, lied to and even hurt. Are you "happy" with THAT part of the philosophy?

Hubbard wrote that critics (whether stating facts or not) should be "handled" with overwhelming lawsuits or noisy investigations. Are you "happy" with THAT part of the philosophy?

Hubbard wrote the drill on ruin-finding as very effective way to "get people in", yet it is based on extreme manipulative use of "ARC". Are you "happy" with THAT part of the philosophy??

The philosophy ITSELF contains MANY negative, erroneous and even quite despicable "ideas". Are you "happy" with all of those?

My point is simply that your statement really says nothing, unless you clearly spell out what parts you are keeping and supporting, and what parts you are tossing away.

And, yes, I mostly agree with everything else that you said. Though possibly you under-estimate just how closely interwoven the "philosophy" is with the "practice" (just as it was carefully designed by Hubbard), and how difficult it can be for any person to separate the two in their minds after having been the effect of and seen a great deal of really nutty behavior by many "Scientologists" (people who also are VERY "happy" with the philosophy) over many many years.

My viewpoint when I walked in was this:

I could see that these people and this group were pushing various ideas HARD. Through promo, through briefings, through events, through musters, through graduation, through success stories, etc. These ideas were always based directly on Hubbard's IDEAS. As in ANY part of life, it can be difficult to distinguish what is "true" and what is BS. My attitude was to try it out and see what happened.

The problem, of course being that THIS is what Hubbard wanted. He designed the "philosophy" in a way that would slowly (gradiently) ensnare ANY person who started along his "bridge". These many mechanisms are clearly explained in his "philosophy" as delineated in the OEC volumes. KSW is a KEY part of the "philosophy". It doesn't leave much room for "tempering", unless you "pick and choose" - something the KSW issue itself forbids.

Having to spend (and lose) ten or twenty years of ones life is a high price to have to pay to finally discover, "oh, the philosophy has some great stuff but the organization really screws with people". The key is that Hubbard intentionally designed it THAT WAY! His "philosophy" contains the notion that ONLY Scientology provides a "way out", and that "anything can and should be done to get and keep these reactive humanoids on the Bridge".

To most of the world, Scientology IS the Church of Scientology and NOT some vague wishy-washy notion of "the philosophy".

But, I dont care if somebody wants to audit a few processes from TCOHA or do a few condition formulas in a very relaxed, UNORGANIZED context. When it comes down to it, it is largely Hubbard's clearly spelled-out "philosophy" about Scientology organizations, KSW and the vital necessity of expansion that cause the majority of the "trouble".

+++++++++++++
 
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Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Okay, let’s say that this is the correct quote.

A statement that “you (in general) could be the storm or the sunset” is not the same as
a promise that says, “You Mr. Mostlylurker will be the storm or the sunset.”

Further, I wonder in what way you duplicate this sentence and what is your idea of being the storm or the sunset.
Do you have the idea that you would be able like a kind of allmighty God to be total cause over the sunset in this material universe?
That’s an interesting idea.
But what about all the others who would gain this ability too?
Perhaps you, being an allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the west, but another allmighty God would like to have a sunset in the east.

Are you telling me that you believed this and that you were disappointed because it didn’t happen?

When I was very young I was a Christian and I loved to discuss topics of the Bible with Jehova Witnesses.
At that time I learned that people could have a very different line of thinking and duplicating.
Neither them or me was always totally right or wrong, but we sure had a different way of looking at the Bible.

It seems that you are very disappointed about the Scientology philosophy itself.
I understand that.
Just take into account that others can have a different way of looking at the stuff and are very happy with it.
.
.

That's a good demonstration of the mental gymnastics required to be a scientologist.
 

Veda

Sponsor
That's a good demonstration of the mental gymnastics required to be a scientologist.

Contortionism is a better word for it.

The repeated use of the misleading generality "Scientology philosophy" is a tip off that this person is here to blow smoke.

Hopefully, nevertheless, he'll learn something along the way. :)

Meanwhile, I'm opening a window.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Now I've got it. I have found the final answer to the question:

"What means cause over MEST?"

The answer is:

" 'Cause over MEST' simply means that you are able, willing and ready to burn all of El Con Hubbard´s vomit including books, packs, tapes and basics in your possession."
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Now I've got it. I have found the final answer to the question:

"What means cause over MEST?"

The answer is:

" 'Cause over MEST' simply means that you are able, willing and ready to burn all of El Con Hubbard´s vomit including books, packs, tapes and basics in your possession."

Meh, you ignorants! MEST means Middle European Standard Time! Which currently is, I cant' remember which (after all, we currently have DST (Daylight savings time)), 1 hour before or after GMT. Anyone, who doesn't have DST ATM, should seriously check/investigate the planet/hemisphere they live on.

Of course, this doesn't apply to Leon-2, who, IIRC, didn't manage to login with his original username and password, and therefore "had to" act against the rules of the board and created an illegal (according to the rules of the board) 2nd account.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Your posts are beginning to sway me. I have a problem with words. Do you think scientology could help me with my spelling?

At last,

I can expect a true win with $cientology
My back channels teachers will have a release :happydance:

Cause over spelling :happydance:
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
Naaaah!! :violent: Dutch word MEST means shit! Literally.

Dog shit, cat shit, cow shit, elephant shit. You name it. :thumbsup:


While on the subject, did you ever hear the one about the monkey and the cork?


A farmer was at the pub and told his friends that he had decided to fatten up a pig by putting a cork in its butt.


The pig got bigger and bigger.


The farmer started to worry about what would happen when the cork came out so he trained a monkey to pull out corks.


Finally the day came when the monkey would pull out the pig's cork.


The farmer's friends asked him what happened.


“The last time I saw the monkey, he was trying to put the cork back in.”




:)
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Cause over MEST is a very easy phenomanon to understand

It's either mainly finding a parking space or call 911 on a car accident site :confused2:
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientology is a philosophy ... . Some have been following this route with more or less succes, but when reaching the end of the Bridge, they looked at their life or the state they were in, and they decided that they were not at ALL cause over life or MEST, and therefore concluded that the Scientology philosophy was a scam.
You're supposed to think cause over MEST means telekinesis and things like that, but in truth, if you join staff, it means being told to do lots of hard MEST work, and when you do 3x a normal work week in just a week, then you are cause over MEST, so take a win.

Others cannot conceive of any higher spiritual state at all, and therefore are bluntly fighting any and all ideas in that direction.
It depends what you're underlying viewpoint is.

If you believe in an originally "dead" universe that over a long period of time evolved conciousness, then of course you are going to be skeptical of anything that doesn't have a "rational" explanation.

If you believe we are all "fallen angels", then you probably believe that higher spiritual states do exist -- it's just a question of how do we get (back) there.


The problem with this concept is that if ONE person is total cause, then all others are at effect.
Theoretically it is impossible to bring two people to a state of total cause in the same universe. It would be also an undesirable state.
Anyone who wants to be total cause in this universe should better not try to achieve it with Scientology, because he will not reach his goals with it.
As a side note: people who are very fixated and determined on being cause themselves must be at the same time very, very busy in making others effect. Hmm…, let me see, in what organization have I seen that?
It's possible for more than one individual to be at total cause -- they just (a) can't stop others from undoing what they did, except by (b) creating a universe that the other doesn't have access to, or (c) squashing the other somehow so they are no longer at cause.

(a) is probably the best if you don't want to end up alone and ignored, unless you want to go the worship route, which is another whole subject.


Then there are people who have the idea that “being cause over MEST” means that an OT should be able to do supernatural things, like for example bending forks without physically touching them.
Well, supernatural phenomena DO exist.
I'm quite certain of that. The trouble is, I haven't seen much of that myself. If you ask certain people to demonstrate their OT ability, they will just tell you "I don't do party tricks" which suggests they can't do what they would like you to believe they can.

But I do know of this one worldwide group that gets together every year or so -- whenever they meet there is always good weather. Now tell me, is that an OT ability?


But according to the Scientology philosophy this universe is based on agreements.
In other words, everything around us exists because we all agree that it exists.
There is gravity because we all agree there is gravity; water is wet, because we all agree that water is wet, and so on.
Anyone who is in this universe, is agreeing with the laws of this universe, otherwise he wouldn’t be here.
This is a complicated subject and "reality = agreement" doesn't even begin to cover it.

But all of us that are here have participated in the creation of this universe (way back when when our "universe creating abilities" hadn't deteriorated yet) and in the process created "anchors" that have tied us to it. This is the basis for Samsara.


Whatever one thinks of this theory, it means that according to the Scientology philosophy doing things like telekinesis would be a very, very complicated trick.
Personally I have no clue how people can do it.
Basically, you do it the same way you bend your arm -- you just do it. The trick is that there are mechanisms which actively prevent us from doing so, and in theory, once we get rid of those impediments, then we can.

These things are NOT teached in Scientology.
There is NO essay called: HCOB How to bend forks.
There are NO (upper)levels in Scientology that have as their end product: “The ability to bend forks.”
TAnyone who practices Scientology with the goal to achieve a state of “being able to do supernatural things” is sitting in the wrong plane.
No, there is no HCOB on bending forks.

There is a lecture about tractor beams and pressor beams -- presumably, if you aim these at a fork in just the right way it will bend.

There is also another lecture where Hubbard says anyone studying Scientology to learn how to do these things is "in the wrong class".

I think he actually believed he could create a cadre of people who could do all this stuff -- I have a copy of some ancient writings (not of Scientology origin) that said these things would come about. But they haven't, at least not yet.

Helena
 
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