What really lures people in and makes them sacrifice so much?

[programmer_guy]

pineapple:

1. Did Bent send Bobby Mongiello to be E.D. of the Hawaii mission? Do you remember?

2. Was Yvonne Santana the auditor that Bent hired to audit Riverside staffers?

 

[programmer_guy]

The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements
(Originally written in 1951) is a great analysis of the phenomenon.

Also:
https://www.amazon.com/Extraordinar...y+popular+delusions+and+the+madness+of+crowds

 

[pineapple]

programmer guy:

1. No. It was Joanie, Bobby's wife, who was temporarily the ED of the Hawaii Mission. Bobby, as far as I can remember, never came to Hawaii. That was a very chaotic and unpleasant episode. Joanie's style was very "hey, you" with lots of yelling, very invalidative. IIRC (this is over 40 years ago), Joanie at one point had me take one of the other staffers into session to do something (a dn assist, maybe?), felt I had bungled it (maybe I did?) and verbally reamed me out for it. So much for The Ivory Tower. This was probably what resulted in me going to Riverside the first time, to see if I could be "rehabilitated" as a dn auditor. (However, I distinctly remember breezing through HSDC in Riverside and having no trouble with a "difficult" pc, so maybe the problem wasn't my auditing.)

Joanie was succeeded as Hawaii ED by Earl Rehder and finally by Frank Walker. Frank was by far the best of the Riverside Hawaii EDs, but severely handicapped by his wife Renee, whom I and all the other Hawaii staff hated. She was eventually routed off staff over her protests. (I'm not exaggerating when I say we all hated her. We practically threw a party after she left.) I believe Renee got routed off after Frank's Comm Ev at Hawaii Org.

Other Riverside visitors to Hawaii: Bent and Mary both came over, separately. Bent came to visit, I believe while Frank was ED, and took the entire staff out to dinner and a movie (Marathon Man). I think this was before I went to Riverside the second time. Mary came over with Diana Grenier (and Diana's husband David) to do Life Repair on some of our public. Mary allowed me to do a White Form (pc assessment form) on one of the pc's. When I came out of session, Mary said, "Did you really do that whole form already?" When I said yes, she said, "You should have asked the questions more slowly." (I was impressed by the brevity of Mary's admin on a CS 1. It said: "CS 1. All to F/N," with time/TA and a big F/N symbol. That was it. Definitely the most concise CS 1 ever.)

Also Jeff and Darcy Kovac, who may have been there on vacation? I believe we met them at the airport, but they didn't hang around the mission and I didn't see them after they arrived. I heard somewhere (?) later that their visit to Hawaii was actually unauthorized and they had blown Riverside before coming there, though I don't remember where I heard this and don't know if it was true.

2. I don't know about Yvonne. I remember her going by another last name. Santana was probably her married name. She didn't look at all Hispanic, was kind of tall and model-like, not very young (maybe 40?), definitely good-looking.

 

[FoTi]

Emmanuel......on this post, down below you will see a link to a thread....My-ups-and-downs. Click on that link and you can read my story of what attracted me like a moth to a flame. It's a very long story, and will take you a while to read it. I danced around that flame for over 30 years, like many others who took Scientology to heart and didn't know what was actually going on behind the scenes of what the public was allowed to see.

 

[pineapple]

What got me into scn in the first place and what kept me in for nearly 7 years were different, I think.

1. Curiousity. This was the big motive force in the beginning.

2. A big win on the Comm Course. This made me feel that "scientology works." Since I was on staff I did TR's almost every day, so the win was continually reinforced.

3. Loyalty to the group. This was a BIG, BIG thing. There were many times when I wanted to walk, but I felt I'd be letting the group down. The other staffers were my friends. Even when we weren't on post we hung out together. We lived together. If I left I'd be making it harder on them -- and I knew they'd resent it and ostracize me for it. I'd lose friends. Almost everyone I knew was a scngst.

It finally got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore, though. We were in a "soft" period -- it seemed to me we cycled through "hard" periods, where the "fixed, dedicated glare" was in everyone's eye, and "soft" periods, that were maybe a little less fanatical -- so I figured now was the time to make a break.

 

[Scout]

I am amazed at the level of detail you remember Pineapple. I left before you so I didn't see Frank get comm eved but most of the events earlier, I was there for. Your chronology seems just about right.
Sorry to hear the church went after Frank. His steadiness, his focus kept me interested and was a kind of living proof for the tech. His wife, well a little, the other way. I think they were both clears. That was one of the interesting things about clears. Some clears had something going and others were contradictions.
A funny story about Rene:
She and I were riding in Frank's bronze colored 72 olds 442 on King st in Honolulu. (Frank loved his cool cars). Rene was a nervous driver let me say. She ran over something in the road and was convinced it was a person she ran over. I argued with her that there was no person in the road. She didn't believe me.
We had to circle the block several times to ensure there were no bodies.
She knew I was close to Frank and insisted I didn't tell him. I liked Rene quite a bit too.
Like you, it is for the people I stayed in as long as I did. People like You, Pineapple and Liza Thomas and Frank and Rene, Gary Nakagawa, Barnie Barnes and Erin Barnes, Peter Baranet and Allison Soltys and Dave Furey and many many others I miss and likely will never see again. Except for Frank and Rene, these were the Honolulu staff that carried the place for so long. The closeness you create on staff is comparable to the kinship of soldiers.
You never see that level of commitment in the wog world.
Glad I experienced it, but it couldn't go on forever. I turned the page.... There was no dwindling spiral after all. There was new purpose to finish college... And get on w life

I did get in contact w Peter Baranet after hearing about his short film winning some awards. Still making guitars quite successfully btw. Got the feeling he is still inside the church and contact w me might go badly for him so I stay away. (That's for you church ethics officers lurking on this site)

Pardon me if I lurk myself. This is a great site.

 

[programmer_guy]

How long were Frank and Rene in Hawaii?

(Before that time, at the Riverside Mission, Frank was head of Div 6 and Rene was a Div 6 reg.)

 

[pineapple]

I did get in contact w Peter Baranet after hearing about his short film winning some awards. Still making guitars quite successfully btw. Got the feeling he is still inside the church and contact w me might go badly for him so I stay away. (That's for you church ethics officers lurking on this site)

Apparently Peter was still in as of a few years ago. Looks like he did some pretty high-powered stuff, too.
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/p/pete-baranet.html

Here's another Honolulu staffer. This blew my mind when I first saw it. I must say she looks good, though. I always liked Edwina.
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/2011/05/31/scientology-filming-psychiatrists/

There's never been a thread on this board specifically about the Honolulu Mission. I think you and I are the only ones who've admitted to being alumni, @Scout, though I suspect there may be others.

 

[pineapple]

I am amazed at the level of detail you remember Pineapple. I left before you so I didn't see Frank get comm eved but most of the events earlier, I was there for. Your chronology seems just about right.

Of course! I am a f**king Clear, ain't I?

 

[programmer_guy]

There is a thread on the Riverside Mission.

Please start a thread about the Honolulu Mission. That would be interesting.

 

[Scout]

Apparently Peter was still in as of a few years ago. Looks like he did some pretty high-powered stuff, too.
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/p/pete-baranet.html

Here's another Honolulu staffer. This blew my mind when I first saw it. I must say she looks good, though. I always liked Edwina.
http://www.xenutv.com/blog/2011/05/31/scientology-filming-psychiatrists/

There's never been a thread on this board specifically about the Honolulu Mission. I think you and I are the only ones who've admitted to being alumni, @Scout, though I suspect there may be others.

Yes she looks great. Some get people looking as they age... Not me. She was a sweet heart.

 

[pineapple]

How long were Frank and Rene in Hawaii?

(Before that time, at the Riverside Mission, Frank was head of Div 6 and Rene was a Div 6 reg.)

I'll say about 4 years, '77-'80 or early 81. Frank was succeeded by a guy named Jeff Youmans. Bent had lost the Honolulu Mission by that time. I left staff soon after Jeff arrived.

 

[pineapple]

There is a thread on the Riverside Mission.

Please start a thread about the Honolulu Mission. That would be interesting.

Actually there is this one, "Ex-Hawaii/Riverside Staff," which I started with my first post back in 2012.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/ex-hawaii-riverside-staff.27832/#post-753676

 

[programmer_guy]

Why did Bent Corydon lose the Honolulu Mission?

 

[Gib]

What got me into scn in the first place and what kept me in for nearly 7 years were different, I think.

1. Curiousity. This was the big motive force in the beginning.

2. A big win on the Comm Course. This made me feel that "scientology works." Since I was on staff I did TR's almost every day, so the win was continually reinforced.

3. Loyalty to the group. This was a BIG, BIG thing. There were many times when I wanted to walk, but I felt I'd be letting the group down. The other staffers were my friends. Even when we weren't on post we hung out together. We lived together. If I left I'd be making it harder on them -- and I knew they'd resent it and ostracize me for it. I'd lose friends. Almost everyone I knew was a scngst.

It finally got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore, though. We were in a "soft" period -- it seemed to me we cycled through "hard" periods, where the "fixed, dedicated glare" was in everyone's eye, and "soft" periods, that were maybe a little less fanatical -- so I figured now was the time to make a break.

oh yah, curiosity. The CDEI scale:

http://www.sgmt.at/ClearbirdE/Clearbird2004/appendix_a/scales.htm#DEI TO CDEI

Hubbard's rhetoric, namely trying to appear logos, came up with lots of scales to make us believe he was learned in human emotions and reactions.

Any body who has read a lot of Hubbard will see this. Anybody who has read all his scales of what is to be achieved, and is now out, came to the realization that there are no clears or OT's.

http://www.sgmt.at/ClearbirdE/Clearbird2004/appendix_a/scales.htm#TONE SCALE 50

The main trust of Dianetics was that one could achieve Tone 4 by getting dianetics auditing and/or coauditing dianetics, hence self-help rhetoric at the time.

1951/52 Hubbard introduces scientology and expanded tone scale to fit in with his master grand plan. That is complete loyalty, or someone known as a Scientologist.

Hubbard the master sophist and in modern times known as a bullshit artist.

Here's the 2018 Super Bowl ad - Curious?

https://bigthink.com/news/here-are-...-ad-that-was-shown-in-some-super-bowl-markets

 

[programmer_guy]

What really lures people in and makes them sacrifice so much?

In the old days, for staffers, decades ago before the internet:

1. Div 6 disseminators would meet people in public places and invite them to Intro Lecture,

2. Div 6 regs would get Intro Lecture attendees to sign-up for the Comm Course,

3. Div 2 regs would get Comm Course students to sign-up for Life Repair auditing (find their "ruin").

4. Person got "cog, VGIs, F/N" so they then believe in Hubbard's pseudo-science (e.g. DMSMH)

5. ED offers auditing up through some level if they join staff.

6. "Bait-and-switch" has occurred from auditing to training.

7. New staffer then lives in poverty pay expecting the promises to occur.

8. Some staff leave after a short while and some stay for decades (ruining their lives).

9. Some staffers who stay too long have permanent personality changes that affect them for the rest of their lives even after they leave Scientology.

I am sure there is more to this for various people, stories will vary.

 

[Type4_PTS]

 

[Scout]

Right on #3 Pineapple . Hard to get away from the group consideration. Most of us struggled w the 2d thing but 3d we were right there. If the attraction of a group that loved you and needed you didn't scare you away, you were pulled in and was the mortar that held it all together.
I had been part of groups before the staff experience and nothing before or since seemed to come close.

Nice to have this forum. I have four children and a wife who know only a little about my 8 years in Hawaii and less about my staff years. Its so far in the rear view I don't even use the jargon anymore.

But sad to think orgs don't have the public walking in.

 

[Gib]

What really lures people in and makes them sacrifice so much?

In the old days, for staffers, decades ago before the internet:

1. Div 6 disseminators would meet people in public places and invite them to Intro Lecture,

2. Div 6 regs would get Intro Lecture attendees to sign-up for the Comm Course,

3. Div 2 regs would get Comm Course students to sign-up for Life Repair auditing (find their "ruin").

4. Person got "cog, VGIs, F/N" so they then believe in Hubbard's pseudo-science (e.g. DMSMH)

5. ED offers auditing up through some level if they join staff.

6. "Bait-and-switch" has occurred from auditing to training.

7. New staffer then lives in poverty pay expecting the promises to occur.

8. Some staff leave after a short while and some stay for decades (ruining their lives).

9. Some staffers who stay too long have permanent personality changes that affect them for the rest of their lives even after they leave Scientology.

I am sure there is more to this for various people, stories will vary.

I got in, in 1987 (before the internet), the route I got in was thru Dianetics ads on TV, thanks to Jefferson Hawkins and Steve Hall. So my story is a little different, but,

as you state is one of the routes one can get sucked into scientology. For when I joined staff why we had body routers who did the exact sequence you mention. I saw many people come and go as a result of body routing and even handing out promo pieces on the street and personality tests since we where in a big city where this could be done. Many came in and checked it out, only a few stuck.

The only reason I stuck was because I thought I could go "clear".

 

[Gib]

Right on #3 Pineapple . Hard to get away from the group consideration. Most of us struggled w the 2d thing but 3d we were right there. If the attraction of a group that loved you and needed you didn't scare you away, you were pulled in and was the mortar that held it all together.
I had been part of groups before the staff experience and nothing before or since seemed to come close.

Nice to have this forum. I have four children and a wife who know only a little about my 8 years in Hawaii and less about my staff years. Its so far in the rear view I don't even use the jargon anymore.

But sad to think orgs don't have the public walking in.

yep, the group.

Hubbard read Le Bon's works on Crowd Psychology. Or group think, Hubbard was a master at turning around Le Bon's discoveries into creating a "scientologits", a loyal member of his church or movement, or a group.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/dean-wilbur-rhetoric-hubbard-dianetics-sicientology.38446/page-8

Illusions

from Le Bon's book the crowd, which Hubbard read:

https://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/lebon/Crowds.pdf

"2. Illusions.

From the dawn of civilization onwards crowds have always undergone the influence of illusions. It is to the creators of illusions that they have raised more temples, statues, and altars than to any other class of men. Whether it be the religious illusions of the past or the philosophic and social illusions of the present, these formidable sovereign powers are always found at the head of all the civilizations that have successively flourished on our planet."
Now, imagine Hubbard reading that and creating dianetics and scientology, and also thinking with his affirmations, and what do you get?
Hubbard created the illusion of clear, and then OT.

DM has continued in the illusion.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/ias-freedom-medal-winners/