What Scientologists do not understand about Ex-Scientologists.

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

I hate to oversimplify, but in this case it really is this simple...

Think e-Bay. People buy stuff. With money.

Think Scientology. People buy stuff. With money.

e-Bay customers assume and accept the seller's representations as "good faith" and make the purchase with real money. If the item purchased is not satisfactory (or at-worst fraud), the customer tries to get his money back and/or post a bad review.

ESMB is the "feedback" (review) section of t-Bay (theta bay).

That is why the CoS's and even Indie Scn's characterization of ESMB posters as 'low-toned, natterers & haters' makes no sense. Attacking unhappy customers is (in Scn terms) a 'wrong target'.

The posts on ESMB are customer reviews. It doesn't make you a 'hater' if you didn't get what you paid for.

In business, the customer is always right.

In Scn, Scientology is always right. That's why if you post a bad review , terrorists with headcams show up at your front door with nasty introversion tech.

You'd think after 61 years, Scientologists would figure out that their business model doesn't work.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

It is interesting that Internet commerce thrives in much part because of the customer "reviews" and "feedback". It allows customers to judge how honest the seller is on the quality of the products being sold.

Scientology tries to trick the process by banning reviews or seeking to harass, terrorized and intimidate former customers so they are afraid to post their feedback.

The stench of Scientology's heavy-handed bullying to annihilate negative feedback is unmistakable

Honest businesses do not have to resort to this sort of low-level criminal behavior.

Compare Apple, the world's most valuable brand. People literally line up on the sidewalk and sleep there overnight in order to buy the company's new products the following day.

Ever seen anyone lined up outside a Scientology org?

 

[LongTimeGone]

VERY good points HH.

Hopefully when we do see people lining up outside an org they will be members of a raiding S.W.A.T. Team.
LTG

 

[Gadfly]

In business, the customer is always right.

In Scn, Scientology is always right. That's why if you post a bad review , terrorists with headcams show up at your front door with nasty introversion tech.

Great comparison between Scn and eBay (and "feedback").

One of the things that really caused me to lose affinity for Scientology was when I started noticing how they ALWAYS "had to be right" as a group and as a philosophy. THAT attitude is part and parcel of Hubbard's subject materials. It is so amazingly haughty, arrogant and pretentious. The Church of Scientology is incapable of accepting ANY "guilt", responsibility or cause of "bad results".

Imagine if you went to a plastic surgeon to remove a large discoloration on your face, which has been a problem all of your life. The medical center that invented a new technique that addresses such skin problems tells you in no uncertain terms:

1. Their leader and main surgeon invented, all by himself, this amazing procedure. He had no help from others.

2. This medical center and surgeon are the ONLY ones to deliver this unique procedure. Others have tried, and all have failed.

3. The promote that the procedure ALWAYS WORKS WHEN PROPERLY APPLIED, and they show you many enthusiastic success stories.

(The above three points are very similar to how Scientology presents itself)

So, you go and do the procedure. Two weeks later your face is all puffed up, and now you have a large orange spot that is twice as large as the original mark. You are VERY unhappy with the doctor and medical center.

You go in to talk it over and to hopefully get the situation addressed. They are very "nice", polite and kind. They show you endless "research papers" with statements like "these most amazing methods", "discovered by a genius", "provides 100% workability when the procedure is done properly", "only we can deliver this amazing technique", etc.

They tell you that "the procedure ALWAYS works", and that YOU MUST THEREFORE BE THE PROBLEM. You must have some strange skin type, or SOME OTHER underlying problem or disease that intereferes with the perfect working of the technique.They end up having you removed from the building with security guards. The doctor and medical center claim that "our technique always gets good results". WE ARE ALWAYS RIGHT, and anytime we appear not to be, the REAL PROBLEM lies with YOU.

And, when you publicly complain about it and create a web site to expose their deceit, you find your garbage rummaged through, strange cars parked along your street every day, strange people seem to be following you, your neighbors tell you that "investigators" have come to their doors saying that they have received reports of you doing drugs or having wild sex orgies, your cat disappears, anonymous letters are received by your boss with wild accusations of company misdeeds, and on and on and on. JUST LIKE INSANE SCIENTOLOGY.

Of course, a customer of such a business would get very mad. Maybe bomb the place. Maybe go "postal" for being lied to to, cheated and intentionally deceived. That such things haven't yet happened with Scientology is surprizing. Scientology really does cross the line of decent human behavior, and it is strange that none have "crossed the line" BACK AT THEM.

Scientology cannot be "wrong". It is not in their nature to even accept THAT possibility. And, in conjunction with their intense views of "taking responsibility for the environment", "being full cause for all aspects of any game", and "terminatedly handling all situation", the Church of Scientology's manipulative agents go out and do WHATEVER is necessary to shut up people so as to perpetuate the PR illusion they foist on its members and the world.

Most decent businesses try to create good PR by being honest and decent to their customers. Scientology tries to create "good PR" by forwarding lies and shutting up anyone who tells the truth!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

Another thing about eBay and tBay (thetaBay) is that both have Power designations for their most upstat salesman.

Scientology has Power FSM's. They are the ones that rehabilitate the hope and wish that the next action (done at lavish expense), will handle the same ruin that the last action (done at lavish expense) failed to handle. They are a "Power FSM" because they tricked, I mean rehabilitated a lot of Scientologists. The product of an FSM, by the way, is "Wishful Thinkingess".

eBay has PowerSellers. They, like Scientology Power FSMs, also do a high volume of sales. However, unlike the cult's Big-League-Closers, wogs selling on eBay must maintain a positive feedback of 98% or higher.
​

Quite remarkably, Scientology's "power" sales people have a virtually inverted ratio of positive feedback, with approximately 2% positive feedback and 98% unsatisfied, blown, bitter and/or defrauded.

Really, how hard is it for a business to see that a customer who "hates" the product they sell is not a "hater" but, instead, a once-trusting & happy (paying) customer who was betrayed and never properly reimbursed or compensated for their loss.

The next time you hear an Indie uses the term "hater", know well that they are actually confirming that there is a vast ocean of former Scn customers out there who "hate" the product of Scientology.

Try this. Walk into any major, internationally known restaurant like McDonalds. Order the food. Pay for it. Take a bite. Spit it out. Return to the counter and simply say, the food tastes bad. They will promptly:

a) Apologize profusely.

b) Offer to replace your meal.

c) Offer to promptly refund your money.​

If you talk to the manager, they will probably additionally offer to discount your meal or give it to you free. And probably throw in some discount coupons for future visits.

You won't walk out of there unhappy or hungry, guaranteed.

Compare that to what happens if you get a session and walk back into the reg office to say that you didn't like it.

Ebay Power Seller: To qualify for the PowerSeller program, sellers need to consistently sell a significant volume of items, provide a high level of service to their buyers, maintain a positive Feedback score, and meet the requirements for detailed seller ratings and eBay Buyer Protection and PayPal Buyer Protection case standards. Membership in the program is free. You don't need to apply for the PowerSeller program. If you qualify, you'll automatically be included. Just check your Seller Dashboard to see if you've achieved PowerSeller status. PowerSeller levels include Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Titanium depending on the number of items you've sold or the dollar amount of your sales.If you're not a PowerSeller yet, you can always work your way up by meeting these requirements:

Be registered with eBay for at least 90 days.
Have an account in good standing.
Maintain a positive Feedback of 98% or higher over the past 12 months.
Follow all eBay policies.
Have a minimum of 100 transactions and $3,000 in sales with US buyers over the past 12 months.
Receive at least a 4.60 average from US buyers across all 4 detailed seller ratings (DSRs).
For all transactions with US buyers, have no more than 1.00% of transactions with low DSRs (1s or 2s) on item as described, and a maximum of 2.00% of low DSRs on communication, shipping time, and shipping and handling cost.
For all transactions with US buyers, have no more than 1.00% of transactions result in opened eBay Buyer Protection and PayPal Buyer Protection cases, and no more than 0.30% of transactions result in closed cases without seller resolution.
If your account falls below these requirements, you may lose your PowerSeller status. To qualify for the PowerSeller program, sellers need to consistently sell a significant volume of items, provide a high level of service to their buyers, maintain a positive Feedback score, and meet the requirements for detailed seller ratings and eBay Buyer Protection and PayPal Buyer Protection case standards. Membership in the program is free.

 

[Operating DB]

Thank you HH for this insightful thread. You have a marvelous way of putting things into perspective. I always look forward to any thread started by HH!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

HH you have a marvelous way of explaining this.

May we expect a postf happens when a McDonalds employee decided to leave vs ( a now we find out ) "volunteer" with a billion year contract to scientology?

 

[Gadfly]

HH you have a marvelous way of explaining this.

May we expect a postf happens when a McDonalds employee decided to leave vs ( a now we find out ) "volunteer" with a billion year contract to scientology?

This touches on another point about Scientology that always made it unacceptable to me. The constant, endless, chronic and intense DEMAND. The heavy-duty PUSH.

Scientology is inconsistent with an approach of "Let It Be", or "Live and Let Live". A philosophy of "non-resistance" is impossible with Scientology. That is Scientolgy's flaw and problem. It is deeply imbedded in the Scientology philosophy that "OTs make things go right", and along with the many various other notions, such as Tone 40, unreasonableness, hanlding situations, controlling the environment, being responsible, being pan-determined (responsible for ALL aspects of any game), well, the nutter Scientolgist NEVER takes "no" for an answer. They do come back, come back, and keep coming back - based on Hubbard's crazy ideas. They ARE "persistent". That is not necessarily a good thing when pushed too far (as over-indoctrinated Scientologists are prone to do). Of course, the absolute worse recipient of the pressure and force is a Scientologist, because he CAN'T SAY "NO" (or get sent to Ethics).

So, when any Scientologist wants to "leave", the endless "handlings", pressure, control and force begin in earnest.

Of course, if anyone wants to "leave" in the wog world, is is not considered as ONLY A MANIFESTATION OF OEVRTS AND WITHHOLDS, and you can do so.

I never at any point found anything admirable about Scientology's tendency to PUSH and DEMAND at every step along the way.

Note: The notion of "pan-determinsim" turns into MANIPULATION of all events and situations, as a way to contrive perceptions in accordance with their goals. NASTY!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

One of the lines I loved was
"If you are really an OT you could make this go right"
Me " But I never agreed to do that "
Them " It is a target on my BP so you HAVE to do it! "
Me " Did you get my agreement before you put me on your BP ?"
Them " Doesn't matter, if you really an OT you can make it go right ! "
Me " Next time you want me to do something you might want to try getting my agreement first rather than sitting there knowingly ARC breaking me "
Them....mutter...muttter

 

[lotus]

HH you have a marvelous way of explaining this.

I second
He is my favorite Hoax troll

One thing e-bay has is a claim system, if the item is not what it has been promote to be.
Aslo paypal offer a claiming procedure to get a refund.


I plan to buy my next introspection rundown with paypal - if it turns bad - I'll claim a refund

 

[Captain Koolaid]

HA HA! Apple is a cult as well. In Scn you buy something, it doesn't work and it's your fault. An Apple customer buys a phone, he doesn't get proper reception, and guess what! It's the customer's fault because he isn't holding the device correctly.

Scientologists are not supposed to use non-Scn solutions, Apple devices are locked to only use Apple software and apps. You want Flash? Forget it. Steve does not approve.

Apple is extremely litigious.

Apple makes insane profits by producing at Foxconn in China. This is a company where emplyees are now required to sign a waver promising that they won't kill themselves. The workers get more money than Sea Orgers (not much, though), but they don't get room and board.

When Apple launches a new product, all the fanatics storm the Orgs...er Stores and spend tons of money even if they could get a similar or better product for less money elsewhere.

If you criticise Apple the fanatics will try to convert you. If that doesn't work, they will ignore you or try to shatter your suppression. I know, my brother is one of them.

Apple wants all your money. Apple wants you to hate the competition. Apple knows where you are at all times. Apple knows what you think. Apple know what you want. Apple is always right. Apple knows what's best for you. Apple wants to rule the world.

But at least they don't promise that using their products will give you unlimited super human powers. And they don't have reeducation gulags for truant customers. Yet.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Thank you HH for this insightful thread. You have a marvelous way of putting things into perspective. I always look forward to any thread started by HH!

HH you have a marvelous way of explaining this.

May we expect a postf happens when a McDonalds employee decided to leave vs ( a now we find out ) "volunteer" with a billion year contract to scientology?

Thanks much! This eBay-tBay paradigm surprises me too in offering a disarmingly simple way to view the chaotic, predatory monstrosity known as Scientology.

Here's an interesting note on the eBay and Scientology. A set of 18 brand new Scientology Basics books offered on eBay today at $ 74.95 (no buyers yet).

Well, assuming that someone did buy it, they get free shipping. With those heavy cartons, that has to cost the seller at least $30.00, meaning they would net appx. $45.00 on the sale. That renders an effective price of $2.50 per book.

Why is this interesting? Because, eBay is an uncompromisingly accurate view of the actual demand/value for a product--as opposed to the hysterically hyperbolic numbers Scientology assigns to it.

Let's shop and compare! Today, Scientology offers the Basic Books for $ 4,500 and there is a special discounted price of $ 3,500 for which you get 18 books and some dvd lectures. Assuming the DVD discs cost Pubs Org no more than $125.00 maximum to print and insert in those glossy binders, the effective cost per book (discounted) is $187.50 each.

SCIENTOLOGY ASSERTED VALUE (PER BOOK): $ 187.50

ACTUAL MARKET VALUE (PER BOOK):................ $ 2.50

HHIVI (Hubbard Hyperbolic Inflated Value Index):.....75​

Hmmmmmmmm. 75 times overhyped & overvalued. That number 75 reminds me of something else that is crazily overhyped in Scientology but I just can't quite put my finger on it.....

"Once Upon a Time, 75 million years ago................."​

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Thanks much! This eBay-tBay paradigm surprises me too in offering a disarmingly simple way to view the chaotic, predatory monstrosity known as Scientology.

Here's an interesting note on the eBay and Scientology. A set of 18 brand new Scientology Basics books offered on eBay today at $ 74.95 (no buyers yet).

Well, assuming that someone did buy it, they get free shipping. With those heavy cartons, that has to cost the seller at least $30.00, meaning they would net appx. $45.00 on the sale. That renders an effective price of $2.50 per book.

Why is this interesting? Because, eBay is an uncompromisingly accurate view of the actual demand/value for a product--as opposed to the hysterically hyperbolic numbers Scientology assigns to it.

Let's shop and compare! Today, Scientology offers the Basic Books for $ 4,500 and there is a special discounted price of $ 3,500 for which you get 18 books and some dvd lectures. Assuming the DVD discs cost Pubs Org no more than $125.00 maximum to print and insert in those glossy binders, the effective cost per book (discounted) is $187.50 each.

SCIENTOLOGY ASSERTED VALUE (PER BOOK): $ 187.50

ACTUAL MARKET VALUE (PER BOOK):................ $ 2.50

HHIVI (Hubbard Hyperbolic Inflated Value Index):.....75​

Hmmmmmmmm. 75 times overhyped & overvalued. That number 75 reminds me of something else that is overhyped in Scientology but I just can't quite put my finger on it.....

"Once Upon a Time, 75 million years ago................."​

 

[Good twin]

It has happened Gadfly. I guess you've never read my story. I suppose it would be hard to find at this point. But the mission I used to run was fire bombed. Twice. But of course we even had to cover that up as best we could.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I second
He is my favorite Hoax troll

One thing e-bay has is a claim system, if the item is not what it has benn promote to be.
Aslo paypal offer a claiming procedure to get a refund.


I plan to buy my next introspection rundown with paypal - if it turns bad - I'll claim a refund

Thanks!

Scieno-Scenario: If Scientology was an eBay seller and received a bad customer Review...

Message sent by Customer Billy Blowdown

Dear Scientology Seller,

I was the winner of one of your recent "buy-it-now" auctions for the item known as "THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM". I appreciate the free shipping and all but please recall that I sent you a PayPal payment of $ 360,000.

I have opened the package that you sent me and while I greatly admire the glossy pictures of waterfalls and rocket ships zooming thru eternity, all that you actually sent me was some words about Total Freedom. Perhaps there is a mistake of some kind and your shipping department forgot to include the actual Total Freedom.

In any case, I didn't get what I paid for and I have shipped the box back to you and respectfully request a prompt refund.

ML,

Billy Blowdown

Message sent by Scientology Seller

Dear Billy,

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We fully duplicate your origination.

We have noted that you posted a negative Feedback for your Total Freedom purchase. Unfortunately, we have a strict policy that we do not offer refunds to customers who post negative feedback.

Had you posted a win instead, we would have gladly given you a prompt and full refund.

Should you have any other issues or concerns, please feel free to let us know so that we might be able to provide you with another prompt response that uses business-like sounding words to request that you kindly fuck off.

ML,

Scientology Seller

Message sent by Customer Billy Blowdown

Dear Scientology Seller,

Thank you for returning the Total Freedom box to me.

While I was greatly disappointed in your response, I nonetheless once again tried to apply the Total Freedom tech that was in the box.

Unfortunately, I was not able to achieve any of results that Mr. Hubbard claimed. Please advise.

ML,

Billy Blowdown

Message sent by Scientology Seller

Dear Billy,

It is quite apparent that you are not applying the Total Freedom tech properly.

If you agree to stop posting negative feedback and, instead, post a highly favorable review with your wins, we will agree at our own expense to send a qualified Tech Support representative to your home.

They will give you a free de-bug so that you can get exactly the same results as Ron did which not only allowed him to achieve Total Freedom, but to journey to a world of joy and happiness that is beyond your imagination, called Target II.

We guarantee that when you complete your Tech Support you will join Ron at Target II or we will issue a prompt refund.

ML,

Scientology Seller

 

[guanoloco]

I second
He is my favorite Hoax troll

One thing e-bay has is a claim system, if the item is not what it has been promote to be.
Aslo paypal offer a claiming procedure to get a refund.


I plan to buy my next introspection rundown with paypal - if it turns bad - I'll claim a refund

This is great stuff.

I've used ebay since '99 or so and have done hundreds of transactions as a buyer.

In all that time I've only been openly defrauded once.

I always use paypal and was 100% reimbursed after a very short and painless invest to ensure I wasn't cheating the system.

I love ebay and paypal and consider to really have only gotten fair exchange all along. That is to say that it's not really exchange in abundance or anything and I still love it. It's always been a fair and equal engagement.

Contrast that with Scientology where virtually every engagement has been a let down, has left me diminished in capacity at some level and has always been negotiated with me purposefully held at effect with Scientology at cause, be that at any org level or what-have-you.

Scientology is manipulative and exploitative and leaves you with that greasy feeling of just having gotten slimed.

 

[guanoloco]

Thanks much! This eBay-tBay paradigm surprises me too in offering a disarmingly simple way to view the chaotic, predatory monstrosity known as Scientology.

Here's an interesting note on the eBay and Scientology. A set of 18 brand new Scientology Basics books offered on eBay today at $ 74.95 (no buyers yet).

Well, assuming that someone did buy it, they get free shipping. With those heavy cartons, that has to cost the seller at least $30.00, meaning they would net appx. $45.00 on the sale. That renders an effective price of $2.50 per book.

Why is this interesting? Because, eBay is an uncompromisingly accurate view of the actual demand/value for a product--as opposed to the hysterically hyperbolic numbers Scientology assigns to it.

Let's shop and compare! Today, Scientology offers the Basic Books for $ 4,500 and there is a special discounted price of $ 3,500 for which you get 18 books and some dvd lectures. Assuming the DVD discs cost Pubs Org no more than $125.00 maximum to print and insert in those glossy binders, the effective cost per book (discounted) is $187.50 each.

SCIENTOLOGY ASSERTED VALUE (PER BOOK): $ 187.50

ACTUAL MARKET VALUE (PER BOOK):................ $ 2.50

HHIVI (Hubbard Hyperbolic Inflated Value Index):.....75​

Hmmmmmmmm. 75 times overhyped & overvalued. That number 75 reminds me of something else that is crazily overhyped in Scientology but I just can't quite put my finger on it.....

"Once Upon a Time, 75 million years ago................."​

Hey, but wait a minute!

There are no buyers yet so that actual free market value of the basic books is $0!

 

[Bea Kiddo]

I remember the first job I had out of the Sea Org and wanting to leave it. I remember battling with myself trying to figure out if I had overts or withholds on the people at work or not. I had a very hard time getting up the strength to tell them I was out of there. I was braced for a long conversation and "handling" to stay. LOL!!!!

They told me "good luck on your journey!" They told me I was welcome back any time!

I left for more money, that was all. Neener.

 

[Gadfly]

It has happened Gadfly. I guess you've never read my story. I suppose it would be hard to find at this point. But the mission I used to run was fire bombed. Twice. But of course we even had to cover that up as best we could.

Were the people who did the firebombing disgruntled Scientology staff of public Scientologists?

 

[Good twin]

Were the people who did the firebombing disgruntled Scientology staff of public Scientologists?

It was never tried, so it is not official. The suspect was a person who had a free case analysis.