What Was Marty's Role in Trying to Stop the Australian Inquiry?

rhill

Patron with Honors
If you Google >>>site:forums.whyweprotest.net rathbun xenophon<<< that will bring up all the posts on WWP including the words "rathbun" AND "xenophon".

Might want to use "xenophobe" too...

martyrathbun09 // November 21, 2009 at 3:08 am

Mike B, I had the same impression. What is there to respond to – after three segments he had condemned the entire subject and LRH without having witnessed to any single specific act. Xenophobe is in a heap of trouble.

Mike B // November 21, 2009 at 3:18 am

Do you KNOW that he never witnessed anything? Can you confirm that he is or is not who he says he is (as far as CoS posts, etc.)?

martyrathbun09 // November 21, 2009 at 3:21 am

Mike B,
I’ll tell you how in the know he is – I never heard the name till this kangaroo court went in the news.

[http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...ll-ferrets-out-dms-spy-network/#comment-5424]
 

lurkanon

Patron with Honors
Motives

It boils down to what Marty's motives were in attempting to block the enquiry.

He is currently building an Independent movement, practicing true Scientology, but outside of the Church of Scientology. If that is all, then the enquiry would be no threat to him and his movement, since the scope of the enquiry would not include a bunch of Independents, it only would affect registered tax-exempt organizations.

The enquiry is a threat to The Church of Scientology. The enquiry is not a threat to independent practitioners.

Marty is claiming to be an Independent. Yet he tried to block an enquiry which is no threat to him and his movement.

Something indeed, does not add up.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
"........ people deserve to know what they are getting into, when they are interested in exploring Scientology."
^^^^^^^^
THIS!

Marty is claiming to be an Independent. Yet he tried to block an enquiry which is no threat to him and his movement.

Something indeed, does not add up.

Doesn't add up for me either. I like some of the things that Marty has done but he needs to publicly address this issue and explain his actions.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
^^^^^^^^
THIS!



Doesn't add up for me either. I like some of the things that Marty has done but he needs to publicly address this issue and explain his actions.

Oh God shoot me for doing this but
Could he have been afraid that something would happen like in Russia ?

Edit: It a sordid mess

Still makes it not right though
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
If that is all, then the enquiry would be no threat to him and his movement, since the scope of the enquiry would not include a bunch of Independents, it only would affect registered tax-exempt organizations.

The enquiry is a threat to The Church of Scientology. The enquiry is not a threat to independent practitioners.

Marty is claiming to be an Independent. Yet he tried to block an enquiry which is no threat to him and his movement.

Something indeed, does not add up.

If Marty is trying to get tax-exemption himself (or for his own movement) than he might be interested in getting the investigation out of the way.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/tom-martiniano-declaration-of-independence/

martyrathbun09 // May 11, 2010 at 9:19 pm | Reply

Michael, Thanks. There are some things in the works. I said from the outset function (which we have been doing naturally) will monitor structure. I’m working on some structure which I will be ready to announce soon (very carefully worked out to forward and realize our function).
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Okay Markus, My onley point was that he is not working FOR the C of $

Well in my opinion we should very seriously consider this possibility.

Nobody in our free world would believe that a father would lie to his family about crimes against his son in order to protect his crazy cult. So what do we know what else is possible in this fanatical organizaton - and it was Hubbard who installed this brainwashing machine on my father and this "independent Scientologists"!!
And I have to repeat - I know from first hand witnesses about crimes which were commited in the name of Scientology which are concealed by this two guys. If I would have commited crimes like this I would be very carefull and would not create a movement like the independent field - In my opinion they are still not aware of what they have done. They still believe it is ok to suppress people who are not believing in Hubbards Technology.
This is crazy and dangerous and the seed for more criminal actions. Hiding crimes is a crime in our society. I have no problem to work together with people who have another opinion than me. I have a big, big problem to work together with criminals or people who have no problem to deny crimes in order to protect a crazy criminal movement.
If they do not start to talk about this crimes soon it is very clear to me that this Marty movement is a planned secret action to save Hubbards Technology.
Best
Markus
 
If Marty is trying to get tax-exemption himself (or for his own movement) than he might be interested in getting the investigation out of the way.

Movements don't qualify for tax exemptions, only legally constituted institutions can. Even then there is a legal process involved to qualify which effectively requires time & money for each institution seeking the status.

Marty would have to create some sort of "umbrella church" as a corporation for his followers to join and then go through the appropriate legal processes needed to gain exempt status. It would all be costly and not necessarily to any great benefit. Much of MR's following is internationally based. The whole process has to be redone under each appropriate national jurisdiction to benefit such members.

MR creating a new church is not much of a real threat to other's well-being.


Mark A. Baker :)
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Could he have been afraid that something would happen like in Russia ?

Maybe so. But in my opinion he needs to publicly address this issue. Right now it doesn't make sense to me why he would be working to block the inquiry.
 

lurkanon

Patron with Honors
If Marty is trying to get tax-exemption himself (or for his own movement) than he might be interested in getting the investigation out of the way.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/tom-martiniano-declaration-of-independence/

Ah. That would make sense, yes. Thanks for this. So:

1) either he plans to remain an Independent (looking increasingly unlikely, but if so, blocking the enquiry does not add up),

2) or he would like to oust DM and replace him as Head of the Church of Scientology (in which case blocking the enquiry would make sense),

3) or he plans to register a new organization (which would be loaded with problems as he wants to use standard tech so that would open him up to trademark and copyright violation lawsuits, but again, would explain the attempt to block the enquiry), or,

4) he is as some have suggested, a deep cover agent working for DM (I personally think unlikely, but again, would explain the attempt to block)

Given that he attempted to block the enquiry, that elimates 1) and leaves us with 2) 3) and 4) as possibilities. None of which fit with his current shore story.......
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Well in my opinion we should very seriously consider this possibility.

Nobody in our free world would believe that a father would lie to his family about crimes against his son in order to protect his crazy cult. So what do we know what else is possible in this fanatical organizaton - and it was Hubbard who installed this brainwashing machine on my father and this "independent Scientologists"!!
And I have to repeat - I know from first hand witnesses about crimes which were commited in the name of Scientology which are concealed by this two guys. If I would have commited crimes like this I would be very carefull and would not create a movement like the independent field - In my opinion they are still not aware of what they have done. They still believe it is ok to suppress people who are not believing in Hubbards Technology.
This is crazy and dangerous and the seed for more criminal actions. Hiding crimes is a crime in our society. I have no problem to work together with people who have another opinion than me. I have a big, big problem to work together with criminals or people who have no problem to deny crimes in order to protect a crazy criminal movement.
If they do not start to talk about this crimes soon it is very clear to me that this Marty movement is a planned secret action to save Hubbards Technology.
Best
Markus

Than the witnesses need to get them in court.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Movements don't qualify for tax exemptions, only legally constituted institutions can. Even then there is a legal process involved to qualify which effectively requires time & money for each institution seeking the status.

Marty would have to create some sort of "umbrella church" as a corporation for his followers to join and then go through the appropriate legal processes needed to gain exempt status. It would all be costly and not necessarily to any great benefit. Much of MR's following is internationally based. The whole process has to be redone under each appropriate national jurisdiction to benefit such members.

MR creating a new church is not much of a real threat to other's well-being.


Mark A. Baker :)
I still believe that his goal is takeover of the CofS. I don't think he ever will, but I do think he WANTS it.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
It boils down to what Marty's motives were in attempting to block the enquiry.

He is currently building an Independent movement, practicing true Scientology, but outside of the Church of Scientology. If that is all, then the enquiry would be no threat to him and his movement, since the scope of the enquiry would not include a bunch of Independents, it only would affect registered tax-exempt organizations.

The enquiry is a threat to The Church of Scientology. The enquiry is not a threat to independent practitioners.

Marty is claiming to be an Independent. Yet he tried to block an enquiry which is no threat to him and his movement.

Something indeed, does not add up.

It is indeed an "outpoint" of magnitude.

The string needs to be pulled on this one.

All the way.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll elaborate.

Marty spoke with media and authorities in Oz. After they spoke with him, some took what he had to say on board, and/or decided it would be political suicide to run with Xenophon's story, cuz maybe it was only a change of leadership for the "Church" that was in order.

Marty's intervention hampered our efforts here in Oz. His works cost me for example, WEEKS of work to counter act. We have had lots of media here in Oz, but we lost some because of Marty's spin on the scene with Scn.

Marty pretty well shut things down in Oz, after Xenophon's address to Parliament in November. It took a shitload of time and effort to counter the crap he spun to those who we *did* have on side here.

In his blog, Marty slagged all of us for what we were doing here. In addition to that, he deceived aussie media and powers that be about the real scene. That set us back....Fuck Marty and the horse he rode in on for that.

That is what matters. This (the above) is real...it happened....it's documented. Speculation is just that. Facts are facts. Thank you, Carmel
and whomever else was helping you, for pushing through despite this
insane attempt to stop what you were doing. Marty: :duh:

Carmel and Sen Xenophon (ya gotta love that name!) :happydance:

ROCK ON!

Tory/Magoo
 

Anonycat

Crusader
And this is all 'indicating' to me that Mr.Rathbun is still working for Scientology proper! - He's on a goddamn mission.. A covert OP! - A grand scale PR caper that is designed to save the face of Scientology! - A magnifiscent Revolution to entertain and ameliate the stupid WOG's!

Well.. I'd like to see it proven anyway.. Coz' I ain't quite sure..

:unsure:

I see no other logical reason for squelching the truth, and holding such a vigorous campaign to save the face of the cult.

Even abandoning logic leads me to the same conclusion. Marty is holding court to anyone who'll listen, and trying to become top dog in influence on a global scale. Do we need (in great numbers) to contact those in OZ he has tried to BS?
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Than the witnesses need to get them in court.

Right - I hope this will happen very soon. And I hope that Mr. Sweeney will uncover some of this crimes of Rathburn and Rinder. By the way if anybody is able to get in direct contact with John Sweeney please let him know the facts. But I think he is a very clever person and Marty will not fool him.
Best
Markus
 
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alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'll elaborate.

Marty spoke with media and authorities in Oz. After they spoke with him, some took what he had to say on board, and/or decided it would be political suicide to run with Xenophon's story, cuz maybe it was only a change of leadership for the "Church" that was in order.

Marty's intervention hampered our efforts here in Oz. His works cost me for example, WEEKS of work to counter act. We have had lots of media here in Oz, but we lost some because of Marty's spin on the scene with Scn.

Marty pretty well shut things down in Oz, after Xenophon's address to Parliament in November. It took a shitload of time and effort to counter the crap he spun to those who we *did* have on side here.

In his blog, Marty slagged all of us for what we were doing here. In addition to that, he deceived aussie media and powers that be about the real scene. That set us back....Fuck Marty and the horse he rode in on for that.

It is interesting that he could so easily sway the people who you had to work so hard to convince of your position. Could it be that he had a more persuasive and rational position?

Your inquiry is an attempt to smear the church, and thus diminish its power by the harm to its reputation. It does nothing to address past abuse. Fair enough, but the methods you are supporting, putting tests into place for religions, will affect more than just scientology.

I predict that scientology will find many allies in fighting this, and more mainstream religions will be among them.

It would be one thing to look into the abuses of the church, and probably a great thing if the Senate would look into the lapses in local prosecutors and law enforcement that have allowed these abuses to go on un hindered.

But I agree with marty, a witch hunt against scientology using tax law is not the best course. It is bound to fail due to its affects on other denominations.

See my letter to Sen X for more of my thoughts on this...

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=416043#post416043
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Witchhunt? Rational position? Marty?!

It is interesting that he could so easily sway the people who you had to work so hard to convince of your position. Could it be that he had a more persuasive and rational position?

Your inquiry is an attempt to smear the church, and thus diminish its power by the harm to its reputation. It does nothing to address past abuse. Fair enough, but the methods you are supporting, putting tests into place for religions, will affect more than just scientology.

I predict that scientology will find many allies in fighting this, and more mainstream religions will be among them.

It would be one thing to look into the abuses of the church, and probably a great thing if the Senate would look into the lapses in local prosecutors and law enforcement that have allowed these abuses to go on un hindered.

But I agree with marty, a witch hunt against scientology using tax law is not the best course. It is bound to fail due to its affects on other denominations.

See my letter to Sen X for more of my thoughts on this...

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=416043#post416043

Well I know you Alex - you are not able to see what crimes were committed in the name of Mr. Hubbard and his criminal organization. You are blind to see that his so called "Technology" caused all this crimes.
And it is a blatancy to compare the important, fair and just fight against this criminal organization with the "witchhunts" of the Middle Ages.

Best
Markus
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Right - I hope this will happen very soon. And I hope that Mr. Sweeny will uncover some of this crimes of Rathburn and Rinder.
Best
Markus

Well in any case Mike and Marty are not hiding. If the law of the USA decides there is a case they know where to find the
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
That's an awful lot of chaff you're throwing out there Alex :)

Suffice to say that there's hardly a sentence in your post without some deliberate misdirection, spun interpretation or deliberate bit of distraction. When not outright obfuscation.

Zinj
 
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