Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
Relating to Alex' question as to why Marty might have initially had an easier time with convincing people than Carmel, et al., my first thought was that Marty was able to promote himself has having been at the TOP, therefore, in the know -- I just thought he may have started out with more perceived credibility just because of his former position. Clearly he was out-classed when it came to the merits of the discussion, however.
Clearly.