what was your job in scn and job out?

rebned

Patron
I started looking at this website and others like it a month ago while looking for my sister. I have been reading many many stories ever since and what really interests me is what are people doing to make a living when they get out? I can tell with a few of you but thought it would be nice for people who are just getting out or for families who are wondering what in the heck their loved ones will do after if they ever decide to leave.

So, I will start. My family joined the Delphian Foundation within the first few months of its conception (1974). When I started I was 14 and began as vegetable garden assistant. I spent my days off in the bakery and then at 15 became the baker for 100+ people. I was then made the Jr Communicator for the Deputy Executive director. (You know Hubbard said to pick the young ones to be the comms.) I did well there and was sent to full time training in Port and became a Class IV auditor and was traded to Port Mission to be an auditor at the age of 16. I left staff at around 19 with a 2 yr old daughter and 8 months pregnant with another child and a 9th grade education.

I guess it isn't a mystery to say the next few years were a struggle. I got my HS diploma at 25. I started a cleaning business as that allowed me the time to take care of my kids on my schedule and I didn't need an education. I started to go to community college around 30 as it was cheap.

To fast forward I am now a scientist and have papers published in respected scientific journals. I live in a very nice house and have wonderful successful grown children. I feel very lucky to have the life I do now. Anything is possible. I would love to hear your before and after stories.......
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Excellent story!

I have one question:

How long did you stop and ponder the damage that was done to you by your association with Scientology?
 

rebned

Patron
It took 1 yr of constant talking about it and then it slowly went away. I would say it took me 5+ years to be able to talk in non-scientologese. I remember one vivid thought during the last few months I was in. I was chatting with a neighbor who also had a baby and for being a wog and supposedly inferior to me she seemed awfully together.......
 

rebned

Patron
I am actually re-thinking my reply. I stand by what I said previously but I really feel there are certain maturation processes that are normal in any given society. I matured in ways as a teenager on staff that weren't on par with my wog peers. It probably took another 10 years to feel secure and that I fit in. But, I am trying to look at the bright side here and say that you can make something else of yourself.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great thread. And wonderful story.

I was an accountant before and after I left the CofS. I was never on staff in treasury, though. I'm now a housewife and I also wore that hat on and off while in the CofS.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome to the board Rebned! What an interesting topic. One thing I have to say about scientologists is that we were for the most part curious and hardworking folks.

Here are some posts I wrote 2 and 3 years ago regarding how to help people trying to get their lives together after scientology.

I hope it will be of some help to the many who are getting out now.



By: Ladybird
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 3883
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:07 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lulbelle wrote:
If you/ve spent your whole life being a Scientology auditor and you are now old and off staff and not able to audit any more, what do you do?

Ladybird wrote:
This is so true, Lulubelle. Unfortunately, "old" in scientology is actually pretty young. I would guess that Doug Long would have been in his late 40's now, he was much younger than me. He probably got in scientology in his late teens/ early 20's, like most of us, because that age group is scientology's main target and he was a dedicated and well respected Sea Org member for almost all of his adult life.

"What do you do?" is a very difficult question. Whether you are declared, provisionally declared, fitness boarded/offloaded, blow or you route out by the book, either way you are cut off abruptly from all your friends and family, and all the certificates and awards you thought meant so much are worthless in the real world.

Starting over is so hard, especially if you are alone. There is no where to go if you have burnt all your bridges to your non-scientology family and friends through disconnection and neglect, and your scientology family and friends are not allowed to talk to or help you. Your only potential friends who really understand are those who are in the same situation you find yourself, but you have been told over and over stories about them being squirrels and SPs and you are afraid to trust them, even though the same stories are being spread about you now that you have left. They are afraid to trust you, too.

It is not easy to jump back in to the job market when you are 50 or so years old, and all your peers have college degrees and decades of experience. It is humbling to realize you have to scramble for an entry level job. It can make everything you were told by the cult seem true...but in reality, if you can shove aside the black PRand invalidation, even working for McDonalds flipping burgers you will make more in a week than you made in a year on the RPF, you will have time for yourself to go to school or just have fun, and you will be treated fairly and with respect. You just have to get over Hubbard and DM whispering in your ear that you are a loser because you are not clearing the planet by kissing their asses anymore. They aren't clearing the planet either!!!!

The only "bank" they are clearing is the bank accounts of their deluded adherents (parishioners) and they are laughing behind our backs all the way to the cults bank in "Bulgravia".

Scientology is a scam, plain and simple.

In my experience, ex Sea Org are some of the most honest, hardworking and sincere people I ever met. We do well, even in the most menial jobs in the wog world, and our efforts do not go un-noticed. Even if you have to start out at the entry level, good workers and excellence are rewarded in the wog world, and you will move up quickly. Alot of what we learned in the dog-eat-dog world of the sea org is very useful in real life. We are graduates of the "Lord of the Flies" school of politics. If you just stop and look and listen you will see what is going on around you.

I wrote some posts on how to get back on your feet financially after scientology, and here is a thread with some good advice:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=13357&postorder=asc&highlight=jobs

Please read this thread! Here is one of my posts from it:

Ladybird wrote:
Programmer Guy, I am reviving this thread as you brought up a very good point about how Sea org who have been in for years can "get it together" so to speak. How do you go from nothing at age 40 after decades in a cult?

This thread has a LOT of good ideas for people in that situation.

(I want to note that my nick of "Ladybird" was defaulted to my user name of "Tammy" during the board update, so I am "Tammy" on this thread.)

Also, I will repost here some things I (Ladybird aka Tammy) wrote to Chuck anonymously when he first asked for help:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted March 6, 2005 by Chuck Beatty:

...<snip>...

Anonymous (Ladybird) answered me the following:

GOOD TIPS

Quote:
When I 1st left, I got jobs doing things I knew about, Call-In
translated to selling professional magazines on the phone, things like
"Agricultural Parts Trader", ""Airplane Exchange", Construction
Industry Magazine, etc. Telemarketers are always hiring, and it is not
a great job, but beats the hell out of selling a scam and there is no
Thursday at 2 to worry about! I also got my real estate license, takes
about 6 weeks and often the training is free through one of the large
brokers, and anything in sales kind of relates to regging. I also sold
Encyclopedias and learning materials to schools and churches, and
magazines door to door. Then I decided to go back to college, and found
there are many programs to help adults go back to college, whether for
a degree or certificate.

I STRONGLY recommend staying away from "Trade Schools", on-line
certificate programs, etc. Most are scams, and there was a recent "60
Minutes" show on CBS about this. I also read recently that some of the
largest, ( CEC, Smartcertify, etc.) are associated with WISE, and Jerry
DYAS (OT 8 from Clearwater) is one of the owners. Their certs are
essentially worthless in getting a job, all you end up with is a huge
student loan debt.

That said, the way to go is to enroll in your local community
college and apply for financial aide. After working for $scn for years,
you definitely qualify! I got Pell grants, State grants, and took out
student loans. While attending school full time, I got a part-time job
as a bartender/waiter in a nice supper club. I usually made 200 to 300
dollars a night working only Friday and Saturday. I doubled up on
classes and did summer school and winter breaks for extra credit, and
graduated in just less than 2 years. I saved money by living in a
really cheap mobile home, hell I was never there anyway, and it was
MUCH nicer than staff berthing!!! I started applying for jobs 6 months
before graduation, and landed a really good one that I started right
away while still a student. I continued part time in University even
after graduating Community College to get promoted at work.
Also, I used my knowledge of real estate to buy a crappy house in
a decent neighborhood using a government backed FHA loan. I lived there
for 2 years, fixed it up, and made enough to buy a better house, and
did the same thing. So in just a few years after leaving $cn, I was
making 70K a year salary, sold 2 houses and bought a third, paid off my
student loans and had enough money to pay off my "freeloader debt".
THANK GOD for the Internet!!!!! And A big Thanks to all the
critics who put the truth about $cn out there! I did not give one thin
dime to $cn for my "freeloader" debt, and never will, even though now I could buy the whole
"bridge" if I wanted to. (What bridge? There is no bridge!) The only
thing I have to thank the Sea Org for is teaching me to work like a dog
and live on almost nothing. Oh, and thank you very much for declaring
me an SP!
Anonymous(Ladybird)
------------------------
Another suggestion to ex-Sea Org from another ex-Sea Org member:

Coming out of the SO after years can be really scary. I remember
one of my juniors who had been in for decades, he was in tears because
his wife got pregnant and they were being sent to a Class V org. He was
a tough guy, had been a CO and held many exec positions since the days
when LRH was still around. But he was absolutely terrified of having to
go out in the wog world and pay rent and buy his own food, etc., as he
had been in the SO since he was a teen and had never had a "real" job.
I felt the same way after years of indoctrination. They came back to
the Sea Org years later, not looking happy or healthy at all.
When I finally left, I read about health care being one of the
fastest growing job markets due to the baby boom generation getting to
retirement age. There are a lot of great opportunities in geriatrics.
If I were coming out of the SO now, with my 500 dollars severance pay
and no work history, I would go to work at a Nursing Home. They are
ALWAYS hiring. They have on the job training so you can get a CNA.
(Certified Nurse Assistant Certificate.) Once you have that, you can go
to work at a hospital, they hire CNAs all the time. Check if a hospital
in your area has a tuition reimbursement program. You can start as a
CNA or a monitor technician or a unit clerk. Often training is
provided. Check with the Human Resources Dept., they usually have a job
board with the requirements listed. Once you are hired and have a few
months of good production, apply for training as an RN. Several
hospitals in my area have programs where you work 20 hours but get full
time pay and benefits to attend Nursing School. (There is a nationwide
shortage of Nurses.) You just have sign a contract promising to work
for them for a few years after you graduate. (usually 2 years). RNs
average over 25/hr, much more if you specialize. (ER, ICU, Surgery,
Life Flight, etc.)
Not every employee is chosen, you have to be special, but if you
were able to survive and move up the ranks in the insane world of the
SO, you ARE special. The real world is so much more sane than the SO,
especially if you were an exec. There are rules and laws and justice
that are actually applied. You get paid for your work, and you have
security and benefits. Plus, you can really help people, and isn't
that why we joined the Sea Org in the 1st Place?
An Ex-SO (Ladybird)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I am actually re-thinking my reply. I stand by what I said previously but I really feel there are certain maturation processes that are normal in any given society. I matured in ways as a teenager on staff that weren't on par with my wog peers. It probably took another 10 years to feel secure and that I fit in. But, I am trying to look at the bright side here and say that you can make something else of yourself.

I can totally see that.

I'm very much looking forward to more of what you have to say.
 

rebned

Patron
Thank you ladybird. That is useful information. I agree with what you are saying about us being hard workers. From the age of 8 I had it drillled into me "Production is the basis of morale" "The true test of a thetan is the ability to make things go right"

When you really apply those 2 things you are a dream employee and no matter what job I took I rose quickly up the ranks as I actually worked and enjoyed it.

But, I really would like to hear other people before, during and after stories! Please share.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
What I did in the org remains confidential for personal security, suffice to say that I had regular access to secure "confidential" areas and communications, and per my undertakings at that time, I have never disclosed what I have known to be confidential. If there had been illegal things contained within, yes I would be spilling those beans (and rice).

Yes, I had OSA connections (very strong).

Most staff hellp random cleaning jobs which I had to avoid because of allergies, so I had very little luck finding work that would actually pay the bills. However, within six weeks of blowing, I was in full-time clerical work, and went on to become an IT operator, Personal Assistant, Legal Assistant, Paralegal, Temp Computer operator for systems that no else could understand, did Security work, electronic sales, and back to legal. I was also a DJ for two years (not a turntablist, just a human juke box).

Then the Chronic Fatigue caught up with me so badly I was sleeping under the desk at work! In 99 I packed up and moved back to my father's house, where I have been fighting the medical bureaucracy on CFS ever since.

My whole work history (including in the org) had really happy and really miserable moments. About 18 months out of the org, I spent a week in inexplicable depression. There was nothing wrong. I was PA to head of the department and had free reign, my rent was paid, my food was paid, I wasn't saving anything but I was doing well, and for this one week, I just kept balling. I went over and sat in th epark and I jast balled my eyes out. Some guy came up and asked "What's wrong?" and all I could say "There's nothing wrong, I don't know why I feel like this." It was so bad that in the end I had to take bundles of work home and do them on my computer, then bring them back in for printing. The next week I was back to normal, and it "never" happened again. There was no point in trying to see a Psych about it because it would have been well and truly over by the time I got an appointment.

Having been beaten as a child, I have a big button on people touching me, and it was a big thing in the org, as part of misplaced 8C to hold someone's shoulder while talking in order to keep their attention. I hated this and often stated so. "I've done my TRs, I am paying attention. Your enforced contact is violating my personal space." I'm very much the same about hugs. Hugging my sister's kids is an effort, and yet I must acknowledge that there are times when I've really needed a hug, and the person upon whome it fell would have been equally reluctant. You can also imagine what a negative impact this has on my "sex life". There was a "gay ghetto" not far from my org, and there are times when I wish I had lived there instead. At least, I would know for sure...

In short summary: Legal and I.T..
 

Wisened One

Crusader
:omg: WOW, and :welcome: rebned! You went from being into the SO at 14, left at 19 with one child and another on the way,...got your diploma, and NOW you are a Scientist?!

Whoowee, my hat's OFF TO ya! I'd like to know what kind of Scientist you are?

I left Staff in mid 1995, and worked for Temp Agencies doing clerical work. Hubby also has his own business and I help out in that, too.

Glad you got out, look forward to hearing more of your stories!
 

BBERRY

Patron
I always had to work when I was on staff to make end meet. Can't live on $25a week! After I got off staff I got a job with non scientologists and realized that I am actually a very valuable employee and is well liked by all evil WOGS :)

P.S. whoever wrote about Doug Long, I don't know if you knew but he commited suicide a couple of years ago :( I didn't know if people knew that.
 

rebned

Patron
I wasn't in SO. I was in COSMOD (COS Mission of Davis) when it was run by Martin Samuels. I was at Delphi and then Portland Mission

I am a biological research scientist. I have been doing basic research on HIV for the past 15 yrs. I do sort of a blend of molecular biology, immunology and virology. It is challenging and loads of fun!

:omg: WOW, and :welcome: rebned! You went from being into the SO at 14, left at 19 with one child and another on the way,...got your diploma, and NOW you are a Scientist?!

Whoowee, my hat's OFF TO ya! I'd like to know what kind of Scientist you are?

I left Staff in mid 1995, and worked for Temp Agencies doing clerical work. Hubby also has his own business and I help out in that, too.

Glad you got out, look forward to hearing more of your stories!
 

rebned

Patron
THank you for sharing your story. I am sending you a mental hug:)

What I did in the org remains confidential for personal security, suffice to say that I had regular access to secure "confidential" areas and communications, and per my undertakings at that time, I have never disclosed what I have known to be confidential. If there had been illegal things contained within, yes I would be spilling those beans (and rice).

Yes, I had OSA connections (very strong).

Most staff hellp random cleaning jobs which I had to avoid because of allergies, so I had very little luck finding work that would actually pay the bills. However, within six weeks of blowing, I was in full-time clerical work, and went on to become an IT operator, Personal Assistant, Legal Assistant, Paralegal, Temp Computer operator for systems that no else could understand, did Security work, electronic sales, and back to legal. I was also a DJ for two years (not a turntablist, just a human juke box).

Then the Chronic Fatigue caught up with me so badly I was sleeping under the desk at work! In 99 I packed up and moved back to my father's house, where I have been fighting the medical bureaucracy on CFS ever since.

My whole work history (including in the org) had really happy and really miserable moments. About 18 months out of the org, I spent a week in inexplicable depression. There was nothing wrong. I was PA to head of the department and had free reign, my rent was paid, my food was paid, I wasn't saving anything but I was doing well, and for this one week, I just kept balling. I went over and sat in th epark and I jast balled my eyes out. Some guy came up and asked "What's wrong?" and all I could say "There's nothing wrong, I don't know why I feel like this." It was so bad that in the end I had to take bundles of work home and do them on my computer, then bring them back in for printing. The next week I was back to normal, and it "never" happened again. There was no point in trying to see a Psych about it because it would have been well and truly over by the time I got an appointment.

Having been beaten as a child, I have a big button on people touching me, and it was a big thing in the org, as part of misplaced 8C to hold someone's shoulder while talking in order to keep their attention. I hated this and often stated so. "I've done my TRs, I am paying attention. Your enforced contact is violating my personal space." I'm very much the same about hugs. Hugging my sister's kids is an effort, and yet I must acknowledge that there are times when I've really needed a hug, and the person upon whome it fell would have been equally reluctant. You can also imagine what a negative impact this has on my "sex life". There was a "gay ghetto" not far from my org, and there are times when I wish I had lived there instead. At least, I would know for sure...

In short summary: Legal and I.T..
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
rebned, I am pleased that you have done so well since leaving Scientology. At least I am assuming that you have left? Of course, not everyone does so well. Too many years on staff, particularly in the Sea Org, can leave some people very ill-equipped to survive in the ‘outside’ world.

I didn’t really have a job before I got into Scientology – I came straight from University. My background was predominately Science and Engineering, so I always had a bit of a problem with the lack of theory behind much of the ‘Tech’. Also, there was always the presumption that the ‘Tech’ was perfect, as was Elron, i.e. “Just do it and if you didn’t get the results either you or the PC was wrong.” In the end, I just couldn’t keep ignoring all the outpoints – things just didn’t add up.

When I left the SO, it was difficult to find a decent job as I didn’t have any proper employment record and of course no tax documents such as a P45. So, I just had to knuckle down and do menial jobs starting with a stint in a cake factory. Then, I progressed to working in the electrical section of a department store. After about a year of this, I got a break and got training as a computer programmer. I enjoyed this as I could understand computers – they were logical. Also, I found the degree of precision required stimulating and rewarding. You can’t scream and shout at a computer and say: “Make it go right or you are on a charge!”.

I’ve never looked back from then and have been able to make a good career out of this. Of course, being the glutton for punishment that I am, I then proceeded to give a large chunk of my earnings to the CoS, :duh: but thankfully not all.

For other people I know who have left the Sea Org it has been pretty tough. They may have a good worth ethic and plenty of confront, but the lack of relevant experience and up-to-date skills makes it difficult to get a decent job. One young woman I know was only able to get a job as a cleaner after 5 years in the SO, despite having a degree!

It is a bit of a running joke between me and my Scientology friends that when someone leaves the SO, they either drive minicabs or go into painting and decorating houses. I know of numerous people who have done this. I guess those are convenient things to do if you have very few marketable skills.

Axiom142
 

Pixie

Crusader
Well I've had quite a few jobs since leaving the cult, however now, I valet cars. :yes: One thing I have noticed though out here in the real world is that people do tend to judge you on 'what you do'. It's like, 'what's your name, and what do you do'. :confused2:

Does it make a difference I wonder, if I have a degree, or am a professor of sorts, or if I sweep the streets, is this going to make me a better person? No, it's not. However for anyone to survive the cult and come out and be able to cope with ANY kind of job after that level of mindfuck has my admiration in spades... no matter what they do! :yes:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I wasn't in SO. I was in COSMOD (COS Mission of Davis) when it was run by Martin Samuels. I was at Delphi and then Portland Mission

I am a biological research scientist. I have been doing basic research on HIV for the past 15 yrs. I do sort of a blend of molecular biology, immunology and virology. It is challenging and loads of fun!

Hi your name rings a bell. You been on Freezone forums?

I probably know one of your friends from COSMOD days. I recently visited Davis, a lovely town.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
Before scientology I was a farmer, both as a youth and as an adult. In between the two stints as a farmer, I attended college and did some travelling. Farmers work hard and need to know how to do lots of things, so when I encountered scientology as an adult, I already had a grounding in "common sense," a broad set of amateur-level skills, a small collection of tools, a pretty good "work ethic," and a wide variety of life experiences.

I was stunned by the insanity in the orgs, but as I was "between lives" I fell for the recruiters' line that it was my "duty" to do what I could about it rather than be a spectator and complain. I was recruited to be an auditor, then posted as a Test Evaluator at the newly-opened Hollywood Test Center; later, as "ethics bait," I worked at various "expeditor" jobs around the org.

It soon became obvious that despite my good intentions, I would not be able to "fix" the insanity inside the orgs. What a blow -- left me feeling powerless and unworthy, brought me face-to-face with the difference between "idealism" and "real life." Some years later I realized that insanity started at the very top, with LRH himself. Information now available on the internet confirms that.

I left Class IV org staff and slunk off and set about taking care of some pressing personal business and building a meaningful life for myself and my young child. Using my skills at typing, spelling, and writing, I got jobs doing clerical work in a city where such work was plentiful and paid well enough to cover a modest lifestyle, leaving time and energy to devote to raising my child and developing other my interests. Some of those other interests eventually paid off in money as well as meaning.

"Making money" beyond that needed for adequate basics was not my priority in life, then or now. I have my own business which I manage as a lifestyle first, a livelihood second -- sort of like farming is for small-scale "family" farmers. I got lucky financially with California real estate long after the temptation to "buy the Bridge" had passed.

For anyone fresh out of the cult or prison or a bad marriage or any other culturally isolated existence, I would say get an honest job, any job, doing anything you can, just to get started. Most cities have agencies that place office and "day labor" workers, and these are a way to begin that doesn't require much skill or work history. If you know the alphabet, you can do filing. If you show up with a willing attitude and do what's required, other doors will open.

Community colleges are wonderful places to explore your options, discover your talents and interests, and meet new and interesting people who share your interests. Keep your lifestyle simple and beware of the propaganda influencing you to buy-buy-buy and bury yourself with "stuff" you don't need. There are many facets of life other than work/ career, and the true beauty and joy of life is not sold in Macys or Target.

The single-most effective bit of "self-help tech" I've run across in all my life is the gratitude journal. If you find you just can't rise above your frustration, anger, sorrow, feelings of having been victimized, that "missed my chance" feeling, or a whole range of other torturous forms of emotional angst, start a gratitude journal. Every day, write down five things for which you are grateful. If you can't think of anything, start with breathing. It can be a life-changing exercise; it costs nothing (well, you might want to buy a notebook and pen or pencil, a nice new clean one that you like the look and feel of -- if you've got a few extra bucks...) and requires no ongoing advice, no counselor, no "twin," and you can do it wherever you happen to be.
 

rebned

Patron
No, I was on this site looking for Lindy Jansen which you replied to. That hunt has been what got me reading everyone's interesting stories and made me curious to see what people are doing now. I think about it terms of my sister because if she was ever to get out she would be in that tough category of having been in for 35 yrs with a 11th grade education. That is why I am wondering how people have coped. I admire you all!

Hi your name rings a bell. You been on Freezone forums?

I probably know one of your friends from COSMOD days. I recently visited Davis, a lovely town.
 

Pixie

Crusader
Excellent piece of advice olska! :thumbsup: It's nigh on impossible to even get the confidence up to do a job when you get out of the cult, and for me, I am still living a culturaly isolated existance, however I'm passed torturing myself at the twenty years of waste and failure and am now doing as you suggest with the gratitude journal and practically eating Eckhart Tolle CD's where he too advices attention on the breath. It is a longer journey for some for sure, I know I am very capable, but working in groups again still brings out the heeby jeebies in me, but all we can do is take each day as it comes in the now and move forward in baby steps for sure. Thanks again for that. :yes:
 
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