What's Hubbard to you?

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi. I'm attaching a poll here about what Hubbard is to the individuals posting here. I mean, how they think of him in relation to themselves.

I started this because it occurred to me that there are some people in the critic's scene who feel that anyone who likes Scn or any element of it, and says they do, has some kind of Hubbard worship going on. Frankly, I've been told quite a few times that he's my lord and master. Well, in my case, that's not true. He's not. To me, he's the founder of a series of methods and ideas I like and is someone who had a lot of flaws and a lot of fuckups to answer for. Period.

 

[uncle sam]

I have a serious question???????

Lots and lots of you who took this poll, consider hubbard to have been brillant. How is that true for you?
Please respond.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Lots and lots of you who took this poll, consider hubbard to have been brillant. How is that true for you?
Please respond.

Read all the tech vols (particularly 1 and 2) and listen to the BC tapes, PDCs and Phoenix lectures.
Then we can talk.

 

[Alanzo]

Read all the tech vols (particularly 1 and 2) and listen to the BC tapes, PDCs and Phoenix lectures.
Then we can talk.

I've done that.

Start.

 

[Wisened One]

btw: how does one start/make a poll?

 

[Zinjifar]

btw: how does one start/make a poll?

First you decide what conclusions you want your poll to reach, then you decide on questions that will support those conclusions.

Then you start a new thread (in the appropriate category) and, check the 'create a poll' check box near the bottom and the number of tendentious questions you intend to display

Zinj

 

[uncle sam]

not that it really matters

TO-Transtaafl-My credentials as far as that goes;Interned Class 6, Honors Dianectics, OT7,OT review auditor-fully hatted staff- and I don't think I implied how I answered the poll question. The word "brilliant" is one heck of a word and I want to know what it means to those who think hubbard is brilliant. I hope I qualify to ask this of those.. Peace be with you.

 

[Tanstaafl]

TO-Transtaafl-My credentials as far as that goes;Interned Class 6, Honors Dianectics, OT7,OT review auditor-fully hatted staff- and I don't think I implied how I answered the poll question. The word "brilliant" is one heck of a word and I want to know what it means to those who think hubbard is brilliant. I hope I qualify to ask this of those.. Peace be with you.

Hey Uncle Sam,

Well you put me in my place!
I've audited about 250 hours of Book One, Route 1, SOP3 and 5, and assorted processes - and that was over 15 years ago. I'm certainly not comparing that experience with yours. And, BTW, I wasn't having a pop at you.

I would have gone Option #2 because it's always been data and tech that interested me. But I went for the other option, although if I were wording it myself I would have said "very flawed", because I thought I might be copping out by not recognising his talent.

Now I truly have no idea how much data and tech Hubbard filched from others, but looking at what tech exists that is attributed to him I have to say that it has had a profound influence on me.

I ran Book One before I had ever met a Scn or even heard of the subject. I got good results on more than one person. Impressive results I think it's fair to say. Mrs T has just finished her Ls in the FZ and is totally blown out. I'm not looking to find the differences in her - I don't need to believe the tech works; never have.

I think Hubbard has taken psychotherapy way beyond what anyone I'm aware of has done. If it wasn't for the foolish promises of OT and the cult mentality I think Scn would have made great headway into society, even if it had fractured and been squirreled along the way.

If there's anything specific you'd like me to answer then please feel free to ask.

Alanzo - please note I answered Uncle Sam and not you - cos he's polite and well-mannered.

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[gomorrhan]

I answered that I thought he was brilliant. I do. It seems he collected information from a huge variety of sources, and had the ingenuity to put it together and create a very organized approach to getting a wide range of people to experience enlightenment, no matter what it was that seemed to be standing in their way. That he turned this into a money machine shows that he, himself, had a long way to go towards being enlightened, himself, but that he was brilliant seems hard to question.

 

[uncle sam]

Tanstaafl-Thank you for your response- I've always held book one auditors in very high regard- doing it the hard way holds great appeal to me- for life generally for most of us is doing it the hard way. I'm looking forward to hearing others define how hubbard was brilliant.

 

[Vinaire]

I voted "flawed but brilliant" because of the following:

(1) My assessment is a response to what has flowed from Hubbard to me.

(2) My response is a function of my basic viewpoint.

(3) My basic viewpoint has to do with learning.

(4) I continue to learn a great deal from both positive and negative stuff that has flowed from Hubbard.

(5) Hence my assessment of the man and my vote.

.

 

[uncle sam]

To Vinaire; not that I agree or disagree with you, but for the first time - I think I understood what you have to say- that scares me just a little. However-with that being said- I really liked how you stated your position and to such an extent - I salute thee for stating your thoughts clearly and distinctly- I admire that and hence you.

 

[Alanzo]

I voted "flawed but brilliant" because of the following:

(1) My assessment is a response to what has flowed from Hubbard to me.

(2) My response is a function of my basic viewpoint.

(3) My basic viewpoint has to do with learning.

(4) I continue to learn a great deal from both positive and negative stuff that has flowed from Hubbard.

(5) Hence my assessment of the man and my vote.

.

Yes, thanks for taking the time to give us the reasoning that supports your conclusions, Vinaire.

 

[sp declared]

Hi Uncle Sam,

In my opinion Hubbard was brilliant but flawed. Very capable, bright, keen observer, very capable at identifying basic principles and explain them in a very simple and understandable way.

Things went astray, in my opinion, because (using scn lingo) he didn't keep his ethics in and went PTS himself.

However he was brilliant.

Sp Declared

 

[Escalus]

Intelligent, smart, flawed... doesn't matter. As I sit here right now he's nothing to me.

When people have been gung-ho and then turn themselves out over 30 years and make a success out of their life without Scientology, then you can talk to me.

 

[gomorrhan]

How could they "make a success out of their life", according to you? I feel very much that my life has been successful: I breathe in and out, I eat, I poop, I pee, I sleep, I have sex, I've had children, I communicate with others, I start projects, I sometimes complete them, sometimes decide they were a bad idea and stop them, or I change them in the light of new information... I feel that I'm successful except in one regard: I'm not a published author, which was a childhood goal. Oh, that, and I'm not an astronaut, which was also a childhood goal. I failed at those things.

 

[sp declared]

Escalus,

Of course I agree with you that the final product, if we look at scn as it is now, it has not been that great...

In my opinion one of the problem of scn is that it overpromises and it underdelivers. If you take out the false promises about clear, OT, and all the added unapplicable Sea Org and IAS craziness, you are left with a body of principles that has some kind of validity. I had a huge success even after scn because I kept using some of the principles (not all of them though).

Sp Declared

 

[Zinjifar]

What would be the list of 'applicable principles'?

Would they be recognized as such by anyone not *trained* to accept them?

Zinj

 

[sp declared]

ARC, the concept of theta and entheta, cause and effect, data series, the concept of tone scale, the importance of personal ethics for success in life, the concept of exchange and the four conditions of exchange, just to name a few.

These, of course, were also taken from other sources, but LRH was able to convey them in an easy and applicable way. I mean, he was good at explaining things.

Sp Declared

 

[Escalus]

How could they "make a success out of their life", according to you? I feel very much that my life has been successful: I breathe in and out, I eat, I poop, I pee, I sleep, I have sex, I've had children, I communicate with others, I start projects, I sometimes complete them, sometimes decide they were a bad idea and stop them, or I change them in the light of new information... I feel that I'm successful except in one regard: I'm not a published author, which was a childhood goal. Oh, that, and I'm not an astronaut, which was also a childhood goal. I failed at those things.

My comment was in reference to Tansy's posting about "read this that and blah blah and we'll talk."

That's the context.

Both statements are equally ridiculous. But I didn't see anybody challenge the abject stupidity of his conditions, so I elbowed.