What's 'really' wrong with this cult?

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
The recent discussion on what is wrong with the cult (talk about a convoluted question!) is typical of what I've seen on this board for the past few years. It seems that the same possibilities, the same 'whys' (as the still cult indoctrinated say) get gone over again and again. Except for one.

The core tech of this cult- the real meat of the matter- is the BT doctrines. Both the 'why' and the solution to all of man's problems to those who believe and know the secret doctrines of the 'upper levels'.

There seem to be two prevailing views on this:

1. Either Laffy was stark staring, a lying conman, or some combo thereof,

2. or someone somewhere, maybe the old bastard himself, got something wrong, which is the real reason there is so much trouble for those who practice this 'religion'.

No one (hardly) ever suggests that Scientology was 'sourced' from beyond Hubbard, and that's why it is what it is.

I suspect that Hubbard was influenced by 'thetans' other than 'body thetans'. They are mentioned in every religion I've ever studied, by all kinds of names, and they feature prominently in the origin stories of all of those religions. They are usually not very nice, and seem to have your worst interests at heart, although they might not necessarily appear to be malevolent at first contact. They always seem to enjoy a superior situation in various aspects. They can travel in ways that seem miraculous, they know stuff before it happens, and they have very reliable intel sources on stuff you wouldn't think anyone would know.

According to these accounts, they can engage in combat. They can directly influence individuals. They can manipulate world events.

Thinking that you can just pull out your electronic Ouija board, and 'audit' them, and get them to go off and get new bodies is rather stupid, if you ask me. This comes from the traditions of 'magic' (or 'magick' ) that had the sorcerer conjuring up spirits, binding them, and getting them to go off and do things for you. Intel, for instance. Hub himself admits to knowing about this stuff. Have you ever studied up on it?

But -according to the legends- this only encompasses the lower elementals, qlippoths, and such. It doesn't rule out more advanced beings.

The ol' man himself talked about beings that had an advantage going for them, as they were outside our space/time universe. (MEST, to you culties). He seemed to have a disparaging opinion of them, as shown in his teachings.

Although I have experienced it, I know I can't just 'go exterior' anytime I want. If anyone could, they would have it over me, that's for sure. So I question Laffy's ability to do this as he claimed, and I question his assessment of all of these beings.

There's a rumor that he died in a motor home, screaming about 'clusters!' I'm sure you true believers in the cult don't want to acknowledge this, but what if it's true?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I suspect that Hubbard was influenced by 'thetans' other than 'body thetans'. They are mentioned in every religion I've ever studied, by all kinds of names, and they feature prominently in the origin stories of all of those religions.

And, they can be 'summoned', 'conjured', 'called', 'invoked' etc. And, the archtypical story is of the incompetent magician who 'raises the devil' and falls prey to his own hubris.

I've mentioned it before, but, I'll do it again; my theory:

In the late '40s Ron was hanging out with Jack Parsons and attempting to 'summon' an 'elemental'. As told in a number of the stories from that time, they had a visit by *something*, which Ron supposedly fought off.

My theory says that Ron was *successful* in summoning his demon and it *ate him*.

Ron is gone, but his demon lives on; it's embodied in Scientology itself.

Zinj
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Ron is gone, but his demon lives on; it's embodied in Scientology itself.

I'd go further - much further. If the microcosm does truly reflect the macrocosm, then Scientology is a reflection of what is happening in Western society as a whole. The easy-peasy 1-2-3, semi-conscious attainment of individual spiritual enlightenment infested with demonic forces so as to manifest the love of money (or MEST, if you will) and to bring about an Ahrimanic fall of mankind.

c.f.: http://www.skylarkbooks.co.uk/Shop/media/The_Inflences_of_Lucifer_and_Ahriman_Steiner.htm

. . . just saying.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

The ol' man himself talked about beings that had an advantage going for them, as they were outside our space/time universe. (MEST, to you culties). He seemed to have a disparaging opinion of them, as shown in his teachings.

-snip-

I hope you're not referring to the bogus Fishman "OT 8." The only other comment that comes to mind (re. beings outside the physical universe) is something from the 1952 'PDC' lectures, which was pretty ambiguous, as I recall.

In his (1946, Parson's era) 'Affirmations' (not necessarily earlier Affirmations) Hubbard wrote of his Guardian spirit. He also briefly mentioned the idea of a Guardian spirit briefly in the 'PDC' lectures, but I don't know of any references after that, unless one wishes to consider his naming of the "Guardian's" Office - and then there's the cover of an early edition of 'Scientology 8-8008' featuring a winged golden haired woman.

According to an affidavit of one Ann Bailey, then a Sea Org member, in late 1975, on the top floor of the Scientology Celebrity Center, in a plushly decorated private suite, a person, resembling L. Ron Hubbard, engaged in a kind of ritual rape of her. If this event occurred, it would be almost 30 years to the day after the 'Babalon Working' with Jack Parsons in Pasadena, California, during which a "non-human child" was conjured.

Was Hubbard ritually completing the circle, in recognition of his completion of his mission to loose this non-human child (Scientology) on the world?

Who knows? It's interesting but too speculative for me.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
I did 'hear' about mysterious powerful beings out of this universe..

Quoting myself from an old thread:
<snip> One day my OT5 friend and I was having a cup of coffee and a danish at a café in Copenhagen. We were talking about OT powers.. 'Walk in's', 'blanketing' and stuff. He explained about games conditions.. That once you were an OT you were a 'player', as opposed to merely being a pawn or a broken piece.. When you were a 'player' you were at risk from beings not of this universe, who was monitoring and controlling us all here on the Earth prison planet.. Actually we talked about the reasoning for the RPF.. I was inquiring about that. What I learned was that those people on the RPF was not themselves anymore. They were 'taken over' by someone else, their BT's or agents of these 'overseers' from a parallel universe. The RPF is voluntary you see.. And the thetan always knows.. So the 'real' people on the RPF were punishing and banishing the evil 'entities' that had 'taken over'. </snip>

<snip> According to an affidavit of one Ann Bailey, then a Sea Org member, in late 1975, on the top floor of the Scientology Celebrity Center, in a plushly decorated private suite, a person, resembling L. Ron Hubbard, engaged in a kind of ritual rape of her. If this event occurred, it would be almost 30 years to the day after the 'Babalon Working' with Jack Parsons in Pasadena, California, during which a "non-human child" was conjured.

Was Hubbard ritually completing the circle, in recognition of his completion of his mission to loose this non-human child (Scientology) on the world?

Who knows? It's interesting but too speculative for me.
The 'Moonchild' incident with Parsons had the 'magick' depending on the womans birthday as I recall.. And Hubbard and all his weird numbers..

Hmm.. I'd like to learn Ann Bailey's birthday?

:yes:
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Are you speaking of ?

Without going beyond the OP, are you speaking of EVIL?

Now I will continue on . . .
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I knew a person

And, they can be 'summoned', 'conjured', 'called', 'invoked' etc. And, the archtypical story is of the incompetent magician who 'raises the devil' and falls prey to his own hubris.

I've mentioned it before, but, I'll do it again; my theory:

In the late '40s Ron was hanging out with Jack Parsons and attempting to 'summon' an 'elemental'. As told in a number of the stories from that time, they had a visit by *something*, which Ron supposedly fought off.

My theory says that Ron was *successful* in summoning his demon and it *ate him*.

Ron is gone, but his demon lives on; it's embodied in Scientology itself.

Zinj

I knew a person who dabbled in satanism - and tried some of this stuff too. He was 'replaced' too, intermittantly, off and on. In between times, he always seemed bewildered and frightened. And much like Joran (pronounced -BTW - 'urine' lol) Van Der Sloot (slote not slute or slut), he would have fits of rage - and beat/strangled, or push onto tracks of oncoming train, any WOMAN in his immediate vicinity - or the 'one' (always female) who dared to affront or confront his (so-called) 'power'. And like Urine, he was/is pathetic - but entirely over-run by Evil and deserved of death penalty - or a Peruvian prison, general population.

And yet, like the Petersons, Scott and Drew (no relation) - and OJ, these poor excuses for human beings get away with it - at least once. Sometimes over and over.

I have SEEN it. More than once . . .

Some people sell themselves out/over (to Evil) for the illusion of some special kind of 'power'. So pathetic. They have no idea of what is of REAL value in life. No idea.

Losers. And yet, they do have a run of 'power' - for awhile . . . When it comes down, though - :omg:

I have looked into the abyss, and it looked into me - and I ran for my Life and Soul - I got the fuck out and way - as fast as I could go. Being 'curious' is sometimes fatal. But, by Grace, if one survives, one KNOWS the abyss, and what it looks like, smells like, FEELS like - and pays attention - to the hair standing up on the back of the neck - the next time - and the next, and the ones after that.

FEAR is there, for a reason. It makes us afraid - and BRAVE - in the face of Evil.
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Interesting theories

I suspect that Hubbard was influenced by 'thetans' other than 'body thetans'. They are mentioned in every religion I've ever studied, by all kinds of names, and they feature prominently in the origin stories of all of those religions. They are usually not very nice, and seem to have your worst interests at heart, although they might not necessarily appear to be malevolent at first contact. They always seem to enjoy a superior situation in various aspects. They can travel in ways that seem miraculous, they know stuff before it happens, and they have very reliable intel sources on stuff you wouldn't think anyone would know.

According to these accounts, they can engage in combat. They can directly influence individuals. They can manipulate world events.

Or they can "seed" new religions. There are several books that talk about this. When a charismatic seeker, such as an LRH or a Joseph Smith, or other culty types, is taken over by these beings, a new bizarro religion is formed and it seems the wierder the doctrine, the more people are drawn to it.

It does seem to be part of a pattern on this planet. It's as if these beings are looking down at us gullible humans and laughing, making bets with each other on what ridiculous stuff we'll believe next. What a hoot!

Joseph Smith and the magic underwear. LRH and his BT's. And millions flock to believe in this shit!

Gullible idiots who take themselves VERY seriously. "Deadly serious activity"
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
And, they can be 'summoned', 'conjured', 'called', 'invoked' etc. And, the archtypical story is of the incompetent magician who 'raises the devil' and falls prey to his own hubris.

I've mentioned it before, but, I'll do it again; my theory:

In the late '40s Ron was hanging out with Jack Parsons and attempting to 'summon' an 'elemental'. As told in a number of the stories from that time, they had a visit by *something*, which Ron supposedly fought off.

My theory says that Ron was *successful* in summoning his demon and it *ate him*.

Ron is gone, but his demon lives on; it's embodied in Scientology itself.

Zinj

Too true Zinj. I was going to say just about the same when I saw your post. I think that Laffy and Parsons were trying to go beyond Crowly and succeded.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Amazing!

And, they can be 'summoned', 'conjured', 'called', 'invoked' etc. And, the archtypical story is of the incompetent magician who 'raises the devil' and falls prey to his own hubris.

I've mentioned it before, but, I'll do it again; my theory:

In the late '40s Ron was hanging out with Jack Parsons and attempting to 'summon' an 'elemental'. As told in a number of the stories from that time, they had a visit by *something*, which Ron supposedly fought off.

My theory says that Ron was *successful* in summoning his demon and it *ate him*.

Ron is gone, but his demon lives on; it's embodied in Scientology itself.

Zinj

Amazing! We generally think of demons as shown in the Exorcist or various haloween costumes. Who would have thought of a demon in guise of some tangled upgaphugged bureaucracy with routing forms, KR's, redges, navy uniforms, various liason officers, and a dwarf that likes to run around slapping people.

Pete
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
I remember that L Ron Hubbard junior, who was in there with his old man at the blueprint phase, said Dianetics or Scientology was very slow black magic. He seemed to think this was obvious. So some of the above comments are on the right lines.

This doesn't mean that it is real in any sense. It works, as does Dianetics, to disturb subconscious levels which our conscious mind normally recognises as meaningless and disturbing and keeps in check.

The evil, imo, is made possible by this divorce between rationality and the lizard brain. Or whatever you want to call it.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Amazing! We generally think of demons as shown in the Exorcist or various haloween costumes. Who would have thought of a demon in guise of some tangled upgaphugged bureaucracy with routing forms, KR's, redges, navy uniforms, various liason officers, and a dwarf that likes to run around slapping people.

Pete

Don't see why a huge malicious bureaucracy couldn't be an 'entity' in its own right :) Makes sense even.

me902.jpg



Exorcism anyone?

Zinj
 
Don't see why a huge malicious bureaucracy couldn't be an 'entity' in its own right :) Makes sense even.

Possibly because it's true. :)

One popular name is "tribal culture". Can refer to the idiosyncrasies of a group of coworkers, coreligionists, family, political faction, etc.; anywhere that a "group" is formed and takes on a "common identity". :whistling:


Mark A. Baker
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
Possibly because it's true. :)

One popular name is "tribal culture". Can refer to the idiosyncrasies of a group of coworkers, coreligionists, family, political faction, etc.; anywhere that a "group" is formed and takes on a "common identity".

OK, but it only becomes serious and powerful if the group is cruel, evil and/or heavily into punishment - such as the military, catholic boarding schools, the SO etc.

The "engrams" of each member seem to add to the "group mind" and reinforce it, which in turn then takes control of the members, and especially the leaders. DM???

Ever wonder why someone young, friendly and innocent, who joined the SO could so totally change in a matter of months to a zero ARC dedicated glarer, who would severely punish at the drop of a hat?

This is the reason, IMO and IME.

I have successfully run out such group minds using multiple viewpoint dianetics.

Regards, Allen
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
According to an affidavit of one Ann Bailey, then a Sea Org member, in late 1975, on the top floor of the Scientology Celebrity Center, in a plushly decorated private suite, a person, resembling L. Ron Hubbard, engaged in a kind of ritual rape of her. If this event occurred, it would be almost 30 years to the day after the 'Babalon Working' with Jack Parsons in Pasadena, California, during which a "non-human child" was conjured.

Was Hubbard ritually completing the circle, in recognition of his completion of his mission to loose this non-human child (Scientology) on the world?

Who knows? It's interesting but too speculative for me.

Have you read my first post on this board about the one time I believe I spotted LRH?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=103111#post103111

The story you quote, and my personal experience tend to point me toward the 'psychic vampirism' theory. This doesn't necessarily establish that it's real, just that some people- possibly Laffy himself- believed in it.

edit; I should point out that the dude's 'suppressive personality' doctrines very closely parallel the description of the effects on the victims and perpetrators of 'psychic vampirism' in many of the books I've read on the occult. And I've read quite a few.
 
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Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
OK, but it only becomes serious and powerful if the group is cruel, evil and/or heavily into punishment - such as the military, catholic boarding schools, the SO etc.

The "engrams" of each member seem to add to the "group mind" and reinforce it, which in turn then takes control of the members, and especially the leaders. DM???

Ever wonder why someone young, friendly and innocent, who joined the SO could so totally change in a matter of months to a zero ARC dedicated glarer, who would severely punish at the drop of a hat?

This is the reason, IMO and IME.

I have successfully run out such group minds using multiple viewpoint dianetics.

Regards, Allen

I'm curious as to what you mean by 'successfully run out'. It's probably they went through the incident and had some cog, etc, right?

Does this mean they will never have those kind of problems again? Have you followed through to determine this one way or the other?

I think the biggest 'gain' from this cult is the realization of how easily we can be deceived and misled by an 'egregore' as the old grimoires called them. This means a group mind, sort of.

The main deception that this egregore engages in is making you believe you're doomed without the 'tech', thus perpetuating itself.

The Bible says 'as a man thinks, so he is' and many other sources acknowledge the power of 'placebos'. I'm fully convinced that every single 'win' that anyone ever had in $cientology was because they told themselves that they had a win. It's all in your mind, and it's your show.

And you don't need to perpetuate the ramblings of a deranged sci-fi writer to feel that good about yourself.
 
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lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for this important thread Rmack.:thumbsup:

I think most students of the occult would recognise scientology as a manifestation of occult practices. What is "really wrong with the cult" is that it is occultism gone "bad", due to misuse of occult practices by its founder.

I was going to post about Scientology being an "egregore" as a contribution to the thread but you have made the point in your last thread, so I'll expand upon it.

Here is a Wiki link that defines "egregore" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore for those interested in this.

Ron's history in AMORC and OTO will quite likely have meant that he came upon this occult idea. The Wikipedia article doesn't go into much occult theory, but it is still interesting to compare this article to scientology and its founder's history. Here are some key points from the wikipedia article:

  • The concept of the egregore as a group thoughtform was developed in works of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Rosicrucians
  • egregore - an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people
  • a kind of group mind which is created when people consciously come together for a common purpose
  • a group of people can make decisions that no individual would endorse on their own
  • compliance of individuals with the intentions of a group despite individual misgivings
  • trying to understand the group by understanding its members in isolation fails
  • see the group itself as having preferences for a certain outcome, regardless of its members' wishes

My thesis is that Ron deliberately created an egregore to immortalise himself as per his intentions stated in his Admissions. "That I burn high and bright and will last as a potent and brilliant force until well after this century has run." This psychic force is scientology - Ron's egregore.

Scientology is his deliberate egregore which covertly enforces and solidifies itself due to hidden occult practices disguised as the "tech". As long as the "tech" is practised, the egregore will continue and solidify. Ron wanted this to happen: "this hypnosis will not fade, but will increase in power as time advances." LRH Admissions.

How are egregores created? Some of the techniques occultists use to create an egregore (an autonomous psychic entity influencing the thoughts of a group of people) are fixation of attention, visualisation, creation of thought forms and the summoning and control of entities.

Hubbard was a relative expert at these occult techniques before he created scientology.

They comprise a significant part of the scn "tech", from TRs, to engram running. From creative processing to BTs. Ron got scientologists to fixate attention, visualise pain and suffering (engrams), create thought forms (past lives, implants, BTs, universes) and control entities.

He, like a vampire, used the followers energies to create his psychic entitity (egregore) called scientology.

It's an occult teaching that misuse of occult techniques rebounds negatively upon the practitioner. Nevertheless the history of the Occult is littered with individuals who believed they could defy this law.

I believe Hubbard was one such, who suffered the inevitable insanity, pain and degredation. His created egregore came back to bite him, if you like. He was tortured by feelings that his egregore followers (scientologists) were trying to destroy him. He would rage about entities possessing him. This was his occult self-created hell.

His egregore (scientology) manifests all the negative aspects of his occult techniques and pushes these negative effects upon its followers. Scientologists have fixated attention, they suffer and are in pain, often physically ill, and are plagued by endless entities. Scientology itself is fixated, surrounded by conflict, believes it has endless enemies trying to inflict pain and suffering upon scientology and that it is plagued by an intergalactic, inter-universe thought-control war.

This is inevitable due to the dark occult techniques that Ron implanted into the subject. His egregore is a self-defeating psychic force that is fuelled and stengthened solely by the processes its followers run on each other and themselves.

Ron would have known these risks, but his ego fooled him into thinking he could defy these effects (see his Admissions) and he certainly didn't care about the risk of these effects on his egregore creators/followers (scientologists).

  • "You can experience no evil or illness. You are wholly protected. You cannot guide yourself wrong for you are guided as a crown prince."
  • "You have no fears about working psychically for you are safe, always safe, protected by your Guardian as in a mighty fortress."
  • "Men are your slaves. Elemental spirits are your slaves."
LRH, Founder, Source.
 
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