When Good People Turn Bad....WHY?

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Mind Control is most definitely a part of any Cult
and/or abusive relationship. I just talked w/ a person who was helping
get a celeb out of $cientology (no, not a 'big one'--still great~)....and while having
her watch "What is a Cult" (A 10 part series I did on ToryMagoo44 on YouTube).

She told me: "I have been in 2 abusive relationships and in therapy for years.
Once I finally got how Cults work, your videos helped me greatly. It won't happen
again".

These are some scientific experiments that are famous for SHOWING when
good persons turn bad, and why.

The Stanford Experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZwfNs1pqG0

The Milgraim Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk&feature=related
((Part 2 and 3 are over on the right of this)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274wQJmdRQg

You can Google "Mind Control". I cannot say enough:
Please learn the essence of Mind Control, whether you're out,
or still in, "Lurking". These *are* tools and knowledge you can
use for the rest of your life. :omg:

Peace and Happy Holidays to ALL :cheers: :rose:

Tory/Magoo
PS: If you have any other good videos on Mind Control, please add
them here. Also, if you've experienced a/t like this, I think telling your story,
even IF you've told it before, is vital.

Mine was really the peer pressure, and even the one on Authority
(Milgram Experiment). Think of it: I was sent (while in the Sea Org at 22 years old)
to the
"Medical Liason Officer"
Sounded official to me.

This prolly 20 year old kid, looking VERY official, told me:
"In the Sea Org we are not on medications. So you're going to
need to get off of any medication you take for Epilsepsy. We'll put
you on a program to help you, and monitor you, too. Dianetics WILL
help you with why you have this problem".

He gave me the "Program" (vits and minerals and touch assists :eyeroll:)

I started having HUGE Grand Mal Seizures.
They helped me this much: 0

My Mother saved my life, insisting: "Tory, these people are going
to KILL YOU. Either you are back on my much needed medication
for a PHYSICAL CONDITION YOU HAVE..... THAT DAY,
or "I'm going to fly out there, and trust me, L Ron Hubbard and $cientology
will *never* forget YOUR MOTHER".
I knew she could kick serious ASS, plus I didn't want to have these stupid
seizures any more, nor were they helping me as promised. I called Dr Denk
who thankfully put me back on my medication.

10 years later the top Executives told me: "That was TOTALLY Out tech,
Tory, and we're sorry for that".

I mention this so ANYONE LURKING realize they DO NOT know what the F***
they are doing, medically, and they DO abuse people. I no longer have
a short term memory thanks to their medical abuse. Another person w/
Epilepsy is D E A D as he did follow their stupid, criminal program.

Do NOT blindly follow what 'Seems to be good or true".
LEARN THE FACTS, no matter how "nice" a person many be.

:rose:

Tory/Magoo
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
The first step on the road to evil begins with valuing 'things' more than people. It doesn't matter what that thing is - it could be an idea - patriotism, money, religion, power, or whatever it is, that distracts us from noticing the sacredness of the person.

No surprises there for you Tory. You've often inspired me with your loving actions.

Here's one of my favourite poems:

He drew a circle that shut me out —
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in.

-- Edwin Markham, "Outwitted", from The Shoes of Happiness, and Other Poems (1913)

I meditated on this quote for quite a while.

"Our search for such [moral] principles can start with . . . the unconditional imperative to acknowledge every person as a person. If we ask for the contents given by this absolute, we find, first, something negative—the command not to treat a person as a thing. This seems little, but it is much. It is the core of the principle of justice."

- Paul Tillich

Peace.


 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
well...

i suppose so

but i'm not sure why

CB:
You said ALL THINKING PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THIS

Well, why all others? Because people who (originally I said "don't think", but then
I realized that doesn't work, really, as we ALL think. So I changed it to....) aren't "thinking people" are also
effected by cults the same way "thinking people" are.

The more who know THE FACTS
the Less will be effected.

One lady called me last week. She's been helping a Scientology Celeb
wake up, and leave.

She finally did. AND the girl told me: "I can't thank you enough.
I've been in not one, but two abusive relationships. AND TONS
of "Therapy" to figure it all out.
While watching your 10 part series w/ my friend on "What is a Cult"...
I got it. I can't thank you enough. I'll never get trapped in that,
again"

That is why.

:rose:

Tory/Magoo
 
Last edited:

Smilla

Ordinary Human
CB:
You said ALL THINKING PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THIS

Well, why all others? Because people who don't think are also
effected by cults the same way "thinking people" are.

The more who know THE FACTS
the Less will be effected.

One lady called me last week. She's been helping a Scientology Celeb
wake up, and leave.

She finally did. AND the girl told me: "I can't thank you enough.
I've been in not one, but two abusive relationships. AND TONS
of "Therapy" to figure it all out.
While watching your 10 part series w/ my friend on "What is a Cult"...
I got it. I can't thank you enough. I'll never get trapped in that,
again"

That is why.

:rose:

Tory/Magoo

:heartflower:
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Tory,

I love your mother's strength and how she helped save your life. I had a mother like that, a real fighter, an ass-kicker. My mother stood up to everyone who threatened her, truck drivers, macho men, she didn't give a shit if something was unfair. I see where you get your courage from.

Sometimes I feel like all the mothers of disconnected children in the church should get together and have a conference - maybe led by Karen de la Carriere, or form an organization. There is something sacred and archetypal about a group of mothers. I don't know what I would do if I had to go up against the church as a parent, maybe they would wear me down eventually, but I know there is a part of me that, if my child was in danger, could rip them apart with my bare hands, and if I had to, I'd walk over David Miscavige's soul in hell to protect my kid. Your mother would have fucked LRH up.

:boxing:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Sometimes I feel like all the mothers of disconnected children in the church should get together and have a conference - maybe led by Karen de la Carriere, for an organization.

Great idea XB! :thumbsup:

Make sure that there's lots and lots of media there. :yes:

MAD = Mothers Against Disconnection
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
........Sometimes I feel like all the mothers of disconnected children in the church should get together and have a conference - maybe led by Karen de la Carriere, or form an organization. There is something sacred and archetypal about a group of mothers.............

Such a gathering is exactly what some of us are working on. Something along the lines of mothers who have lost children to scientology through death or disconnection.

IMO the really important underlying story of scientology is what it has done to love and loved ones.

For example look at all the hoopla about goings on in Florida with Ken Dandar and his legal action there. The truly important story is not about who was a witness, Marty's depo, them trying to go after Ken for $1 million +, what judges/prosecutors were under scientology's influence and the like. Those might be important and they ought to be covered but they are not THE most important part of the story there.

What is the really important human interest story here and who can tell it? Is it any of the above things? Are people involved (Ken, Marty, any of us EXes, etc.) the real heros here or the ones who have really suffered or the ones whose stories are truly important to the world?

Not hardly in my opinion, yet those are the stories that get the most discussion, coverage on blogs, press and elsewhere.

The real story, IMO, is what lies underneath all the above in the example of the Dandar legal action. And that are the two people over which Dandar was suing: Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson.

These are two young people who lost their lives and everything the future could have brought them at least in part because of scientology.

And the heros to me who have somehow survived to this point are their loved ones who must bear with the loss of these two.

The real story is what scientology takes from you when it takes a family member.

The real story is what it is like for a mother to wake up every single day to the horror of realizing their child is gone. It is like the child dies every single day the parent wakes up to the realization they they will not see, or hold, or kiss or laugh with their child that day because their child is gone, taken because scientology existed.

And the real story are all the birthdays, holidays, family gatherings and even grandchildren that will never exist or be shared because that future was stolen through scientology's greed, ignorance and dangerous practices.

And that real story affects all the sisters, brothers or any other loved ones of those lost who all have been deprived of what they would have experienced had the likes of Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson not been lost to scientology.

And who can tell that story better than a mother?

Yet very few press, bloggers and other media people seem to "see the story" there as they focus on the matters trival in comparison like the depos, Ken's fight with scientology, etc.

It's not that those things should not be covered as they should. But they are hardly THE story that can best be told by mother.

Where was the the press and the postings and the widespread outrage when scientology went after Kyle mother Victoria for a million? Where is her voice heard? Where are those in the media who are willing to help give her voice wings? Yet she is one of the only people who can tell the really important story behind all this noise in Florida.

Stay tuned. For that time is coming.

And, as per this thread, any of us can easily help if only by keeping Kyle's and Lisa's name alive so their stories can be told and retold:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28424-Kyle-Brennan-Anybody-s-Child

When Kyle died almost 6 years ago did his mother have a support group that included parents of those lost to scientology where one can get information and any real help at all? No, it did not exist. And for almost six years living a nightmare that will not end she fights on.

We WILL ensure her voice is heard so she can let mothers everywhere know the real story down there in Florida.

What you have stated about trying to unite mothers to help them do that is so very important. I so very much appreciate your saying that.

The world needs to know the real story of scientology and what is lost through death or disconnection.

And who better than mothers to tell it.

Again, stay turned.

IMO.
 
Last edited:

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Often enough I've seen people turn bad when their hero's turn out to be shits. In other words, people they'd thought were good turn out to be bad which results in their getting the concepts confused. To be good turns out to be bad so it must be good to be bad, kind of like the street cred of turning "gangsta". The concepts of good and evil lose their value.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Tory,

I love your mother's strength and how she helped save your life. I had a mother like that, a real fighter, an ass-kicker. My mother stood up to everyone who threatened her, truck drivers, macho men, she didn't give a shit if something was unfair. I see where you get your courage from.

Sometimes I feel like all the mothers of disconnected children in the church should get together and have a conference - maybe led by Karen de la Carriere, or form an organization. There is something sacred and archetypal about a group of mothers. I don't know what I would do if I had to go up against the church as a parent, maybe they would wear me down eventually, but I know there is a part of me that, if my child was in danger, could rip them apart with my bare hands, and if I had to, I'd walk over David Miscavige's soul in hell to protect my kid. Your mother would have fucked LRH up.

:boxing:

If there were such a foundation formed, I would suggest calling it: The Ida Camburn Foundation... Her story is one of a mother who lost her son to $cientology. The nickname she chose to use on IRC chat:

WASMOM
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Often enough I've seen people turn bad when their hero's turn out to be shits. In other words, people they'd thought were good turn out to be bad which results in their getting the concepts confused. To be good turns out to be bad so it must be good to be bad, kind of like the street cred of turning "gangsta". The concepts of good and evil lose their value.

This is a terrific observation.

Ever read The Hero With a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell? Campbell was an expert on mythology and its interrelation with history, philosophy, and culture.

We need our modern day heroes just as much as ancient peoples did. When we choose poor heroes or our heroes go bad, it has terrible negative impact on our youth.

Sports stars are often heroes to adolescents, so when they read about them drinking and gambling, they can (and often do) emulate them.
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great idea XB! :thumbsup:

Make sure that there's lots and lots of media there. :yes:

MAD = Mothers Against Disconnection

WOW...I love it.

or STOP Scientology's Tech Oppresses People

H-MODS Heartbroken Mothers of Disconnected Scientologists or just MODS

I think the H-MODS should be a guerrilla group that storms the RPF.

:footbullet::scnsucks:
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Such a gathering is exactly what some of us are working on. Something along the lines of mothers who have lost children to scientology through death or disconnection.

IMO the really important underlying story of scientology is what it has done to love and loved ones.

For example look at all the hoopla about goings on in Florida with Ken Dandar and his legal action there. The truly important story is not about who was a witness, Marty's depo, them trying to go after Ken for $1 million +, what judges/prosecutors were under scientology's influence and the like. Those might be important and they ought to be covered but they are not THE most important part of the story there.

What is the really important human interest story here and who can tell it? Is it any of the above things? Are people involved (Ken, Marty, any of us EXes, etc.) the real heros here or the ones who have really suffered or the ones whose stories are truly important to the world?

Not hardly in my opinion, yet those are the stories that get the most discussion, coverage on blogs, press and elsewhere.

The real story, IMO, is what lies underneath all the above in the example of the Dandar legal action. And that are the two people over which Dandar was suing: Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson.

These are two young people who lost their lives and everything the future could have brought them at least in part because of scientology.

And the heros to me who have somehow survived to this point are their loved ones who must bear with the loss of these two.

The real story is what scientology takes from you when it takes a family member.

The real story is what it is like for a mother to wake up every single day to the horror of realizing their child is gone. It is like the child dies every single day the parent wakes up to the realization they they will not see, or hold, or kiss or laugh with their child that day because their child is gone, taken because scientology existed.

And the real story are all the birthdays, holidays, family gatherings and even grandchildren that will never exist or be shared because that future was stolen through scientology's greed, ignorance and dangerous practices.

And that real story affects all the sisters, brothers or any other loved ones of those lost who all have been deprived of what they would have experienced had the likes of Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson not been lost to scientology.

And who can tell that story better than a mother?

Yet very few press, bloggers and other media people seem to "see the story" there as they focus on the matters trival in comparison like the depos, Ken's fight with scientology, etc.

It's not that those things should not be covered as they should. But they are hardly THE story that can best be told by mother.

Where was the the press and the postings and the widespread outrage when scientology went after Kyle mother Victoria for a million? Where is her voice heard? Where are those in the media who are willing to help give her voice wings? Yet she is one of the only people who can tell the really important story behind all this noise in Florida.

Stay tuned. For that time is coming.

And, as per this thread, any of us can easily help if only by keeping Kyle's and Lisa's name alive so their stories can be told and retold:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28424-Kyle-
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Such a gathering is exactly what some of us are working on. Something along the lines of mothers who have lost children to scientology through death or disconnection.

IMO the really important underlying story of scientology is what it has done to love and loved ones.

For example look at all the hoopla about goings on in Florida with Ken Dandar and his legal action there. The truly important story is not about who was a witness, Marty's depo, them trying to go after Ken for $1 million +, what judges/prosecutors were under scientology's influence and the like. Those might be important and they ought to be covered but they are not THE most important part of the story there.

What is the really important human interest story here and who can tell it? Is it any of the above things? Are people involved (Ken, Marty, any of us EXes, etc.) the real heros here or the ones who have really suffered or the ones whose stories are truly important to the world?

Not hardly in my opinion, yet those are the stories that get the most discussion, coverage on blogs, press and elsewhere.

The real story, IMO, is what lies underneath all the above in the example of the Dandar legal action. And that are the two people over which Dandar was suing: Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson.

These are two young people who lost their lives and everything the future could have brought them at least in part because of scientology.

And the heros to me who have somehow survived to this point are their loved ones who must bear with the loss of these two.

The real story is what scientology takes from you when it takes a family member.

The real story is what it is like for a mother to wake up every single day to the horror of realizing their child is gone. It is like the child dies every single day the parent wakes up to the realization they they will not see, or hold, or kiss or laugh with their child that day because their child is gone, taken because scientology existed.

And the real story are all the birthdays, holidays, family gatherings and even grandchildren that will never exist or be shared because that future was stolen through scientology's greed, ignorance and dangerous practices.

And that real story affects all the sisters, brothers or any other loved ones of those lost who all have been deprived of what they would have experienced had the likes of Kyle Brennan and Lisa McPherson not been lost to scientology.

And who can tell that story better than a mother?

Yet very few press, bloggers and other media people seem to "see the story" there as they focus on the matters trival in comparison like the depos, Ken's fight with scientology, etc.

It's not that those things should not be covered as they should. But they are hardly THE story that can best be told by mother.

Where was the the press and the postings and the widespread outrage when scientology went after Kyle mother Victoria for a million? Where is her voice heard? Where are those in the media who are willing to help give her voice wings? Yet she is one of the only people who can tell the really important story behind all this noise in Florida.

Stay tuned. For that time is coming.

And, as per this thread, any of us can easily help if only by keeping Kyle's and Lisa's name alive so their stories can be told and retold:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?28424-Kyle-Brennan-Anybody-s-Child

When Kyle died almost 6 years ago did his mother have a support group that included parents of those lost to scientology where one can get information and any real help at all? No, it did not exist. And for almost six years living a nightmare that will not end she fights on.

We WILL ensure her voice is heard so she can let mothers everywhere know the real story down there in Florida.

What you have stated about trying to unite mothers to help them do that is so very important. I so very much appreciate your saying that.

The world needs to know the real story of scientology and what is lost through death or disconnection.

And who better than mothers to tell it.

Again, stay turned.

IMO.

I wish you all the best with this. I share your anger and conviction. I've said here before, one of the reasons Lisa's story (I don't know Kyle's very well but I'll educate myself) is so threatening is because it is almost impossible to spin it and make it Lisa's fault (although they still try.) If you read her full story, as Janet Reitman so compassionately wrote it in Inside Scientology, your heart breaks because Lisa needed help she was never going to get from the people around her, but she trusted, trusted, trusted, and she was let down by everyone, from DM, who I hold mostly responsible, down to her friend Bennetta Slaughter, to the people who sat outside the door every day and watched her die. She didn't have a chance with that lot.

A group of mothers is very sympathetic as far as the public is concerned. I still think there are so many people who just don't know. What we need is a TV movie about Lisa. I'm serious, actually.

To the mothers who continue to suffer to this day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_P5ZaiLbdY
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..

Tory, wouldn't a better name for this thread be: "When Good People F/N?"

This is per Ron, and so forth.

Just trying to keep this thread upTone, upStat and upBridge, per Ron.

Oh yeah, I have a special message for Ron. upYours.
 
Top