When Good People Turn Bad....WHY?

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a terrific observation.

Ever read The Hero With a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell? Campbell was an expert on mythology and its interrelation with history, philosophy, and culture.

We need our modern day heroes just as much as ancient peoples did. When we choose poor heroes or our heroes go bad, it has terrible negative impact on our youth.

Sports stars are often heroes to adolescents, so when they read about them drinking and gambling, they can (and often do) emulate them.

You make a good point here. I think about politics. I definitely think there is a connection between (specifically) men in power, a certain type of narcissism, the kind of energy that politicians have, charisma, sex addiction -whatever, but it is strange, the number of scandals involving sexual impropriety:

Bill Clinton for those who believe (d) in him, Jesse Jackson and his love child, Anthony Wiener, John Edwards

John Edwards was really strange because if you read Andrew Young, "The Politician" (he was the one who lied and said the baby was his) you get a view of the man as a complete narcissist, and you think about him lying in the interviews, saying the baby wasn't his child, humiliating Elizabeth, continuing to run knowing that if he got the nomination and the story came out later, the democratic party would have been screwed (Thank God for the National Enquirer who were nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for their reporting.)

My point is, I remember believing and campaigning for a Kerry/Edwards ticket, believing in his "Two Americas". Now he makes me sick.

Something does happen when the people who come forward as leaders seem hopelessly flawed. But maybe the message today is: be your own damn hero.
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
Asch Conformity Experiments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
During the 1950s, Solomon Asch conducted and published a series of laboratory experiments that demonstrated the degree to which an individuals own opinions are influenced by those of a majority group.[1][2][3][4] Together, these experiments are recognized as the Asch conformity experiments or the Asch Paradigm. Subsequent to the release of these experiments, several scientists attempted to replicate them through various lenses. In the present day, Asch conformity experiments continue to be conducted.

[video=youtube;NyDDyT1lDhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyDDyT1lDhA[/video]​
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lori ....
(and ALL Parents who have lost their kids to the CULT of $cientology:::

:bighug:

Crying..............:hug:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I love you ALL,

I'm soooooooooooooooooo sorry. This should not be.

THIS IS WHY. :rose:

Tory/Magoo
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You make a good point here. I think about politics. I definitely think there is a connection between (specifically) men in power, a certain type of narcissism, the kind of energy that politicians have, charisma, sex addiction -whatever, but it is strange, the number of scandals involving sexual impropriety:

Bill Clinton for those who believe (d) in him, Jesse Jackson and his love child, Anthony Wiener, John Edwards

John Edwards was really strange because if you read Andrew Young, "The Politician" (he was the one who lied and said the baby was his) you get a view of the man as a complete narcissist, and you think about him lying in the interviews, saying the baby wasn't his child, humiliating Elizabeth, continuing to run knowing that if he got the nomination and the story came out later, the democratic party would have been screwed (Thank God for the National Enquirer who were nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for their reporting.)

My point is, I remember believing and campaigning for a Kerry/Edwards ticket, believing in his "Two Americas". Now he makes me sick.

Something does happen when the people who come forward as leaders seem hopelessly flawed. But maybe the message today is: be your own damn hero.


You seem focused on John Edwards out-points.

Can't you just have that he is obviously upstat, uptone, winning and VVGIs?

ML,

Billy Blowdown

Clear #1984
Indie #499
Tone Level 8.0
TA range 2.0 - 3.0



John-edwards-460_788155c.jpg
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
You seem focused on John Edwards out-points.

Can't you just have that he is obviously upstat, uptone, winning and VVGIs?

ML,

Billy Blowdown

Clear #1984
Indie #499
Tone Level 8.0
TA range 2.0 - 3.0



John-edwards-460_788155c.jpg

Actually that's a great photo of him. You just made me fall in love with him again.

:biglove:
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Mind Control is most definitely a part of any Cult
and/or abusive relationship. I just talked w/ a person who was helping
get a celeb out of $cientology (no, not a 'big one'--still great~)....and while having
her watch "What is a Cult" (A 10 part series I did on ToryMagoo44 on YouTube).

She told me: "I have been in 2 abusive relationships and in therapy for years.
Once I finally got how Cults work, your videos helped me greatly. It won't happen
again".

These are some scientific experiments that are famous for SHOWING when
good persons turn bad, and why.

The Stanford Experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZwfNs1pqG0

The Milgraim Experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk&feature=related
((Part 2 and 3 are over on the right of this)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274wQJmdRQg

You can Google "Mind Control". I cannot say enough:
Please learn the essence of Mind Control, whether you're out,
or still in, "Lurking". These *are* tools and knowledge you can
use for the rest of your life. :omg:

Peace and Happy Holidays to ALL :cheers: :rose:

Tory/Magoo
PS: If you have any other good videos on Mind Control, please add
them here. Also, if you've experienced a/t like this, I think telling your story,
even IF you've told it before, is vital.

Mine was really the peer pressure, and even the one on Authority
(Milgram Experiment). Think of it: I was sent (while in the Sea Org at 22 years old)
to the
"Medical Liason Officer"
Sounded official to me.

This prolly 20 year old kid, looking VERY official, told me:
"In the Sea Org we are not on medications. So you're going to
need to get off of any medication you take for Epilsepsy. We'll put
you on a program to help you, and monitor you, too. Dianetics WILL
help you with why you have this problem".

He gave me the "Program" (vits and minerals and touch assists :eyeroll:)

I started having HUGE Grand Mal Seizures.
They helped me this much: 0

My Mother saved my life, insisting: "Tory, these people are going
to KILL YOU. Either you are back on my much needed medication
for a PHYSICAL CONDITION YOU HAVE..... THAT DAY,
or "I'm going to fly out there, and trust me, L Ron Hubbard and $cientology
will *never* forget YOUR MOTHER".
I knew she could kick serious ASS, plus I didn't want to have these stupid
seizures any more, nor were they helping me as promised. I called Dr Denk
who thankfully put me back on my medication.

10 years later the top Executives told me: "That was TOTALLY Out tech,
Tory, and we're sorry for that".

I mention this so ANYONE LURKING realize they DO NOT know what the F***
they are doing, medically, and they DO abuse people. I no longer have
a short term memory thanks to their medical abuse. Another person w/
Epilepsy is D E A D as he did follow their stupid, criminal program.

Do NOT blindly follow what 'Seems to be good or true".
LEARN THE FACTS, no matter how "nice" a person many be.

:rose:

Tory/Magoo

In addition to cults, these human group dynamics (negative behavior influence from those who are "in-charge") also happens in non-cult settings (watch that old movie "Lord of the Flies").

(One good look at "Work Place Bullying" behaviors was a recent item for me.)

The subject of human group dynamics is very interesting reading... even beyond the subject of cults.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
The Business Insider has a good article entitled:
27 Psychological Reasons Why Good People Do Bad Things

Here's the first of 27 Reasons:

Tunnel Vision
Setting and achieving goals is important, but single-minded focus on them can blind people to ethical concerns.
When Enron offered large bonuses to employees for bringing in sales, they became so focused on that goal that they forgot to make sure they were profitable or moral. We all know how that ended.

Full list is located here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/27-psychological-reasons-why-good-people-do-bad-things-2012-8?op=1
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
You seem focused on John Edwards out-points.

Can't you just have that he is obviously upstat, uptone, winning and VVGIs?

ML,

Billy Blowdown

Clear #1984
Indie #499
Tone Level 8.0
TA range 2.0 - 3.0



John-edwards-460_788155c.jpg

Note the middle finger, subtle, but flipping everybody off . . .
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Note the middle finger, subtle, but flipping everybody off . . .

Lurker 5....

I love this, too, that you have below your name:

Cautious as one crossing thin ice . . .
(LaoTze-TaoDeJing, Chapter 15. 2nd verse . . . )

For Ray - I have not forgotten you, my friend
Or you Scott, this is for you too. I hope you are out.

And to our friends who may or may not still be 'in"...yes I feel the
same re most of my old "friends". Don't give $cienotology your life.
Don't die in there! :omg:

Take back your *life*
:happydance:

Love to all :rose:

Tory/Magoo

 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
People like to control other people. And when overwhelmed and intimidated, the recipients sometimes let them.

I just watched a documentary show called Locked up Abroad. This particular episode centered around religious police in Saudi Arabia. It's about control.

You get that with cults. You get that with harsher political systems. In some countries, both are wedded together.

When you have people trying to control others into doing things that those others would not ordinarily want to do, you get moral compromise. The way the controllers are successful is in their use of intimidation. Either their familes are threatened, or they are or both.

If you watch the movie (based on true events) Hanoi Hilton, you'll see a depiction of POWs being tortured and at first trying to resist, then under torture, saying whatever they're told to say.

Sometimes it's subtler than torture.

It's pressure and it's fear and it's intimidation. Those things will cause people to do things they may have once believed to be wrong or to lose complete sight of what's right and wrong.

Even peer pressure could be an example of that.
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you watch the movie (based on true events) Hanoi Hilton, you'll see a depiction of POWs being tortured and at first trying to resist, then under torture, saying whatever they're told to say.

Sometimes it's subtler than torture.

It's pressure and it's fear and it's intimidation. Those things will cause people to do things they may have once believed to be wrong or to lose complete sight of what's right and wrong.

Even peer pressure could be an example of that.

We saw a movie Sat night called:

THE CENTRAL PARK 5

Based on *exactly* that, and a bit more (racism)

These 5 black kids just happened to be in Central Park (true story)
when a lady was raped.

They were picked up, interrogated (w/out attorneys or ANY representation).
The "officials" put words in the 14--16 year old's mouths, after so many hours of grilling, they said "yeah--sure we did it".

Media insanity all over the place (which is why I'm posting this---the story was ON the news...from start to end).

Finally, one guy in prison sees one of the kids he'd beat up in prison some years ago. That "guy" Happened to be a serial killer.

The man he was talking to was one of the Central Park 5.
The man said to the kid: "Hey sorry I beat you up some years ago"
The kid? "Ahhh don't worry, my life is ruined, anyways".

The serial killer then admitted HE was the killer in all of this.
As my friend said: "What did he have to lose? He was serving
a life sentence as is".

The saddest part was the ending and how much :woohoo: There was
in the beginning
and how at the end, barely a mention.

Ok, we were wrong. BYE.

Sad, and true.

One day---one day---true Justice WILL prevail.

And that day.........is comin :cheers:

Tory/Magoo
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
People like to control other people. And when overwhelmed and intimidated, the recipients sometimes let them.

I just watched a documentary show called Locked up Abroad. This particular episode centered around religious police in Saudi Arabia. It's about control.

You get that with cults. You get that with harsher political systems. In some countries, both are wedded together.

When you have people trying to control others into doing things that those others would not ordinarily want to do, you get moral compromise. The way the controllers are successful is in their use of intimidation. Either their familes are threatened, or they are or both.

If you watch the movie (based on true events) Hanoi Hilton, you'll see a depiction of POWs being tortured and at first trying to resist, then under torture, saying whatever they're told to say.

Sometimes it's subtler than torture.

It's pressure and it's fear and it's intimidation. Those things will cause people to do things they may have once believed to be wrong or to lose complete sight of what's right and wrong.

Even peer pressure could be an example of that.

Claire, I LIVE for Locked Up Abroad (called Banged Up Abroad in U.K.) Love that show. Finally something you and I can agree on! :happydance:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I don't and hate having to do so. In an emergency I have done so.

You're right. I really should have said that it's some people or at least something that occasionally happens in the human condition.

I'm glad you said this.:)
 
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