where was mary sue hubbard?

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
When Hubbard died, DM, reportedly, got her in a room, wouldn't let her leave, and browbeat her into handing over the estate in exchange for
50K USD and what amounted to house arrest.

So how could she have had much in the way of chances to hold hands or stroke fevered brows just before that? It sounds to me like DM and his cult had things pretty well locked down and that MSH's mobility and freedom had been limited for quite some time.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
When Hubbard died, DM, reportedly, got her in a room, wouldn't let her leave, and browbeat her into handing over the estate in exchange for
50K USD and what amounted to house arrest.

So how could she have had much in the way of chances to hold hands or stroke fevered brows just before that? It sounds to me like DM and his cult had things pretty well locked down and that MSH's mobility and freedom had been limited for quite some time.

That man's going down in my estimation. Actually both men. And they weren't very high to start with.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
MSH died several years ago. From what I heard- and I think that was mostly here on ESMB- she had been kept in her house (admittedly a nice one but a prison's still a prison) under guard til the end of her days.

Nobody announced her death to the general cult membership, AFAIK.
 

Veda

Sponsor
When Hubbard died, DM, reportedly, got her in a room, wouldn't let her leave, and browbeat her into handing over the estate in exchange for
50K USD and what amounted to house arrest.

So how could she have had much in the way of chances to hold hands or stroke fevered brows just before that? It sounds to me like DM and his cult had things pretty well locked down and that MSH's mobility and freedom had been limited for quite some time.

Her husband didn't want anything to do with her.

And the story emanating from the kooky Scientology FreeZone, for years, was that her husband, also, was held under house arrest/imprisoned, or frozen on ice, etc.

A more realistic view is that Mary Sue realized that she was dealing with her co-conspirator husband, the same person who had taught her the tricks that led her to serve time in federal prison, and that she was going to be compliant with his wishes, and then with the wishes of his main henchman, Miscavige. This, to protect herself, and for her own comfort, and also to protect her children, and for their comfort.
 

Leland

Crusader
Her husband didn't want anything to do with her.

And the story emanating from the kooky Scientology FreeZone, for years, was that her husband, also, was held under house arrest/imprisoned, or frozen on ice, etc.

A more realistic view is that Mary Sue realized that she was dealing with her co-conspirator husband, the same person who had taught her the tricks that led her to serve time in federal prison, and that she was going to be compliant with his wishes, and then with the wishes of his main henchman, Miscavige. This, to protect herself, and for her own comfort, and also to protect her children, and for their comfort.

This is the usual story I hear....that MSH was "brow beaten."

Perhaps she was.....I don't know......

Here are a few of my thoughts....

MSH was a college educated woman with a degree.

She went to Wichita in 1951....to take a Dianetics Course. She married LRH in 1952. Dianna Hubbard was born in 1952....and she kept on bearing him children.....

It has always been my opinion that MSH was a force behind the growth, founding and establishment of Scientology.....

When I listened to those 447 SHSBC tapes......you don't hear MSH....but I was aware that she was there......

MSH was a behind the scene factor in the establishment of Saint Hill.....IMO

Then the Apollo...and the start of the Sea ORg....MSH was in on and part of the whole show. There is really nothing in the "Tech" about this..but she was....IMO

All I'm saying is that upon LRH's death....under California Law. MSH would have owned all the rights to LRH's writings. All his money too.....All his Real Estate holdings......

Sure, I get the "pressure" that one can be subjected to by C of $ structure of thought......instilled in one....but MSH had been a part of creating that structure IMO.

I don't know what happened....after LRH died....or even their relationship prior to that....

But, basically IMO she didn't HAVE to do anything......everything would have just fallen into her lap. Everything (ownership wise) did fall into her lap....

I don't buy "protecting" her children...by giving it all away....or settling for some structured payout ....to her children.

Another behind closed doors, C of $, .....situation, that is hard to get to the truth about
 

DeeAnna

Patron Meritorious
"I don't know what happened....after LRH died....or even their relationship prior to that....

But, basically IMO she didn't HAVE to do anything......everything would have just fallen into her lap. Everything (ownership wise) did fall into her lap...."

No, everything would not have fallen into her lap. Here's why: Shortly after Mary Sue Hubbard was indicted, LRH began setting up the "corporate shields" that protect Cof$ to this day. Denise Brennan (Larry Brennan at the time this took place) was very much involved in this. The earlier portion of Denise's very long thread here called "Just Another Chat" went into detail about this and lots, lots more.

Hubbard would have nothing to do with Mary Sue after she went to jail. Per Denise, she would write to him and her letters were diverted and censored before they ever made their way to LRH. Also, per Denise LRH never saw his wife again after she was released from jail. He was already "on the road", hiding from possible indictment himself, since he had been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in MSH's case. And he specifically did NOT want to see her.

That LRH! Always such a fine fellow!
 

petal

Patron Meritorious
"I don't know what happened....after LRH died....or even their relationship prior to that....

But, basically IMO she didn't HAVE to do anything......everything would have just fallen into her lap. Everything (ownership wise) did fall into her lap...."

No, everything would not have fallen into her lap. Here's why: Shortly after Mary Sue Hubbard was indicted, LRH began setting up the "corporate shields" that protect Cof$ to this day. Denise Brennan (Larry Brennan at the time this took place) was very much involved in this. The earlier portion of Denise's very long thread here called "Just Another Chat" went into detail about this and lots, lots more.

Hubbard would have nothing to do with Mary Sue after she went to jail. Per Denise, she would write to him and her letters were diverted and censored before they ever made their way to LRH. Also, per Denise LRH never saw his wife again after she was released from jail. He was already "on the road", hiding from possible indictment himself, since he had been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in MSH's case. And he specifically did NOT want to see her.

That LRH! Always such a fine fellow!

So, ron competely trashed her like his two previous wives.
 
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Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Her husband didn't want anything to do with her.

And the story emanating from the kooky Scientology FreeZone, for years, was that her husband, also, was held under house arrest/imprisoned, or frozen on ice, etc.

A more realistic view is that Mary Sue realized that she was dealing with her co-conspirator husband, the same person who had taught her the tricks that led her to serve time in federal prison, and that she was going to be compliant with his wishes, and then with the wishes of his main henchman, Miscavige. This, to protect herself, and for her own comfort, and also to protect her children, and for their comfort.

You think it's a kooky theory that Elron was under a sort of house arrest? According to RVY, he may well have been. Possibly murdered, butt full of vistaril, odd timing of his will...
 

Veda

Sponsor
You think it's a kooky theory that Elron was under a sort of house arrest? According to RVY, he may well have been. Possibly murdered, butt full of vistaril, odd timing of his will...

He was a paranoid in hiding. There was no need for illegal imprisonment.
 

Leland

Crusader
"I don't know what happened....after LRH died....or even their relationship prior to that....

But, basically IMO she didn't HAVE to do anything......everything would have just fallen into her lap. Everything (ownership wise) did fall into her lap...."

No, everything would not have fallen into her lap. Here's why: Shortly after Mary Sue Hubbard was indicted, LRH began setting up the "corporate shields" that protect Cof$ to this day. Denise Brennan (Larry Brennan at the time this took place) was very much involved in this. The earlier portion of Denise's very long thread here called "Just Another Chat" went into detail about this and lots, lots more.

Hubbard would have nothing to do with Mary Sue after she went to jail. Per Denise, she would write to him and her letters were diverted and censored before they ever made their way to LRH. Also, per Denise LRH never saw his wife again after she was released from jail. He was already "on the road", hiding from possible indictment himself, since he had been named as an unindicted co-conspirator in MSH's case. And he specifically did NOT want to see her.

That LRH! Always such a fine fellow!

Yes, perhaps you are right. But I was under the impression that in a 50/50 State...as California...any of la Fattie's literary works would have belonged 50% to MSH....No matter what. Perhaps that would only have applied to his fiction works. But even just that would have put a crimp on Author Services Org.....

I'm just speculating....don't have docs...
 

Veda

Sponsor
During the early 1980s, L. Ron Hubbard placed the CMO (his child servants: the only people he trusted) over the Guardians office. Mary Sue knew the jig was up at that time.

After L. Ron Hubbard's death, it was no longer necessary to protect Hubbard, the co-conspirator with his wife.

From various sources including former Executive Director International of Scientology, Bill Franks, Hubbard wanted blackmail collected on Mary Sue.

That is very much in accordance with confidential Fair Game tech, and with the "Pink Legs" Bolivar doctrine.

In 1986, the person with that blackmail which - conceivably - could have sent Mary Sue back to prison, was Miscavige.

By that time, Mary Sue had already become a non-person in Scientology.

The same threat, of holding prior crimes committed while working directly with Hubbard, over the person's head, was and is used on Pat Broeker who remains silent.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
MSH died several years ago. From what I heard- and I think that was mostly here on ESMB- she had been kept in her house (admittedly a nice one but a prison's still a prison) under guard til the end of her days.

I recall reading on one of the blogs a critic running into MSH with her handler at a women's store in the mall.. and there's this:

"I left Scientology on October 31, 1992. From the time Mary Sue Hubbard got out of jail, which I believe was 1981, until the time that I left my post at RTC, Mary Sue Hubbard was cared for around the clock by two Scientologists, Neville and Leslie Potter. The Potter’s provided a detailed report to Norman Starkey, a Trustee of RTC, and David Miscavige, also a Trustee, every day on Mrs. Hubbard’s activities, even including trips to go shopping."

http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel/aff_jp990317.html
 
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