Auditor's Toad
Clear as Mud
What I know of Gerry Armstrong is that he is a fine gentleman of extreme honesty and very well repected by those who know him, and, unfortunately I can't say any of the same about you " Sneaks ".
Who actually saw Hubbard take drugs ?
- Thread starter AnonKat
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What I know of Gerry Armstrong is that he is a fine gentleman of extreme honesty and very well repected by those who know him, and, unfortunately I can't say any of the same about you " Sneaks ".
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
AT said:
He is indeed an indelible and forthright entity of great honor imho. That this converstion should bring impingement upon his good character only speaks of the mind-set of the Hubbard apologists and the like.
Bleh.
Veda
Sponsor
From 'Terra Incognita: The Mind':
"The best stimulant is Benzedrine...."
From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):
"Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."
I recall listening to a tape from around 1950, where Hubbard comments that when he attends parties people don't offer him drinks, and are surprised when he drinks. This, because of his warnings about the use of alcohol in 'DMSMH'.
His response, which I remember well, was that "It's a non sequitur," in other words, it doesn't follow that, because he told others that alcohol was bad that, he himself, did not use alcohol.
This same thinking, obviously, carried over to drugs.
Maybe it's time for Scientologists, both inside and outside the CofS, to face that.
"The best stimulant is Benzedrine...."
From 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' (1950):
"Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less physically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic producing, phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and produces less after effect..."
I recall listening to a tape from around 1950, where Hubbard comments that when he attends parties people don't offer him drinks, and are surprised when he drinks. This, because of his warnings about the use of alcohol in 'DMSMH'.
His response, which I remember well, was that "It's a non sequitur," in other words, it doesn't follow that, because he told others that alcohol was bad that, he himself, did not use alcohol.
This same thinking, obviously, carried over to drugs.
Maybe it's time for Scientologists, both inside and outside the CofS, to face that.
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cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
That sounds right. "Pinks" is or was slang for methamphetamines (cf. http://www.noslang.com/drugs/dictionary/p/ for example). Dexedrine is a methamphetamine.
cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
And maybe greys referred to speed / methamphetamines too:
base speed (n)
(Law / Recreational Drugs) Slang a pure pinkish-grey form of the drug amphetamine with a putty-like consistency (from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/base+speed)
Of course, it would be good to see the whole letter in which LRH said he was popping pinks and greys -- but -- it is hard to imagine any context that would convert the clay feet of the idol to gold.
From one view, let's play devil's advocate. He was flawed and tarnished. Does that mean his ideas did not have value? Of course not, if they are valid, they will all stand up to careful scientific and logical scrutiny.
base speed (n)
(Law / Recreational Drugs) Slang a pure pinkish-grey form of the drug amphetamine with a putty-like consistency (from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/base+speed)
Of course, it would be good to see the whole letter in which LRH said he was popping pinks and greys -- but -- it is hard to imagine any context that would convert the clay feet of the idol to gold.
From one view, let's play devil's advocate. He was flawed and tarnished. Does that mean his ideas did not have value? Of course not, if they are valid, they will all stand up to careful scientific and logical scrutiny.
cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
I fear someone may have passed a misunderstood word. The search function at the site (http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?action=search&imprint=&color=39&shape=) is just searching for the colors of pills, not what they are called. (Someone else pointed this out earlier too.)
Yes, pills are color coded. Sometimes it is to distinguish dosages (like for coumadin) or for different drugs altogether. Shape and size are also used to distinguish medicines as are letters and lines imprinted on some tablets.
Yet you would never hear anyone say they were popping rounds or ovals or whatever. You do not hear doctors or patients describing meds by color. Doctors will refer to generic or specific name, and patients usually refer to general category or function (pain killer, antibiotic, etc.) (I speak from years of medical volunteer work.)
So sorry, but that link to pill color coding does not get LRH off the hook. Pinks and greys, with high probability, referred to methamphetamines. And that use is corroborated by multiple other sources.
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
Cyan said:
No.
I myself recall seeing a scan of the origional letter somewhere a few years ago, hm, maybe I am in error of memory tho (was it the court testimony PDF? don't recall), and it was just Hubbard's lying commie ex's tellings at the hearings after the old windbag tried to get her committed to an insanasylum.
(the sick fuck din't beat her well enough?)Not an issue, and I wouldn't give the satisfaction of digging around for it to appease the whinings of the apologists, let them go do their own research and wind their ways through the labyrinths of damning information on 'the demented one'.
Meanwhile I frikken laughtering that anyone with an ounce of brains and a bit of street smarts can't see that alot of Hubbard's gibberish is fueled by raging drug usage. Stay blind and stay blindered
Opinion, you are allowed.
iya.
cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
As to drug-fueled fantasies, I think back to the earlier post on gorilla goals:
"The Gorilla Goals were a series of implants created by invaders from Helatrobus "between about 319 trillion[1] years ago to about 256 trillion trillion[8] years ago". They were given in an amusement park with a single tunnel, a roller coaster and a Ferris wheel ... The symbol of a Gorilla was always present in the place the goal was given."
So gorillas existed far before the age of this universe? Before earth or any other star or planet existed? (Apologist position -- there were other universes; counter-point: space-time is not objective; it is dependent on view point; even the time it takes earth to orbit the sun has changed over time, as has the length of earth days -- by what conceivable measure could something have happened 319 trillion years ago, which is about 318,681,000,000,000 "years" before an earth year even existed. Apologist position: thetans can convert any time scale into any other. Sigh.)
And so ... gorillas evolved independently on multiple planets in different universes separated by trillions of years? What the heck are the odds on that?
And so ... words like Marcab and Helatrobus and Xenu just happen to fit the orthography and phonetic patterns of ... English!?! And to have words that just happen to be pronounceable by the human vocal tract. Geeze, even Star Trek had the sense to develop a somewhat alien language in Klingon. Even HP Lovecraft came up with names that might signal some alien race had "spoken" them (like Cthulhu). Even current human languages show more diversity than the supposed names of alien cultures in far off and long ago places. (Apologist position: LRH translated to make the words easier for his students; counter-point -- what about the importance of the exact time, place, form and event? Exact duplication to achieve as-is-ness? The fact that alter-is creates a lie and persistence?)
So yes, there does seem to be a lot of drug-fueled imagination coupled with was a probably monoglot English speakers rather unimaginative "alien" names that were so typical of the 1940s and 1950s sci fi literature.
"The Gorilla Goals were a series of implants created by invaders from Helatrobus "between about 319 trillion[1] years ago to about 256 trillion trillion[8] years ago". They were given in an amusement park with a single tunnel, a roller coaster and a Ferris wheel ... The symbol of a Gorilla was always present in the place the goal was given."
So gorillas existed far before the age of this universe? Before earth or any other star or planet existed? (Apologist position -- there were other universes; counter-point: space-time is not objective; it is dependent on view point; even the time it takes earth to orbit the sun has changed over time, as has the length of earth days -- by what conceivable measure could something have happened 319 trillion years ago, which is about 318,681,000,000,000 "years" before an earth year even existed. Apologist position: thetans can convert any time scale into any other. Sigh.)
And so ... gorillas evolved independently on multiple planets in different universes separated by trillions of years? What the heck are the odds on that?
And so ... words like Marcab and Helatrobus and Xenu just happen to fit the orthography and phonetic patterns of ... English!?! And to have words that just happen to be pronounceable by the human vocal tract. Geeze, even Star Trek had the sense to develop a somewhat alien language in Klingon. Even HP Lovecraft came up with names that might signal some alien race had "spoken" them (like Cthulhu). Even current human languages show more diversity than the supposed names of alien cultures in far off and long ago places. (Apologist position: LRH translated to make the words easier for his students; counter-point -- what about the importance of the exact time, place, form and event? Exact duplication to achieve as-is-ness? The fact that alter-is creates a lie and persistence?)
So yes, there does seem to be a lot of drug-fueled imagination coupled with was a probably monoglot English speakers rather unimaginative "alien" names that were so typical of the 1940s and 1950s sci fi literature.
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
Maybe you meant 'mongoloid Engrish'? 
Edit> No no no, 'mangle-oid'!
(I crack me up, but I am simply amused)
..........
Edit> No no no, 'mangle-oid'!
(I crack me up, but I am simply amused)..........
This is NOT OK !!!!
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for the tip Gaddy!
cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
By the way, the gorilla implant idea is also reflective of the 1940s and 1950s. Gorillas were treated as very scary, terrifying animals in movies and early TV, with perhaps the biggest villain of the era being ... King Kong.
So it would be natural for that era to treat gorillas so shabbily as to impugn their image by using it as part of an implant.
But today, with much better understanding of gorillas, a very different image has emerged. Gorillas are by and large peaceful, reclusive creatures. Some of them have learned a fair amount of sign language -- they are intelligent, not monsters. And it broke my heart to watch a YouTube video where you could hear a gorilla grieving in the night, alone in her "room," after her beloved kitten had been killed.
So today, I don't think gorilla implants would get any cultural resonance. Back then, they did and were very much a reflection of the poor understanding of these animals at the time, in my opinion.
So it would be natural for that era to treat gorillas so shabbily as to impugn their image by using it as part of an implant.
But today, with much better understanding of gorillas, a very different image has emerged. Gorillas are by and large peaceful, reclusive creatures. Some of them have learned a fair amount of sign language -- they are intelligent, not monsters. And it broke my heart to watch a YouTube video where you could hear a gorilla grieving in the night, alone in her "room," after her beloved kitten had been killed.
So today, I don't think gorilla implants would get any cultural resonance. Back then, they did and were very much a reflection of the poor understanding of these animals at the time, in my opinion.
Smilla
Ordinary Human
I have been lucky enough to spend a little time with gorillas, and they are amazing, beautiful creatures. I will never forget an incident where I unintentionally offended a large older male, and they way he reacted with obvious sadness and disappointment. That's not one of my favourite memories. In all my interactions with gorillas, I've felt that I was in the presence of a person, and I'd dearly love to see the higher primates treated with much more respect, and some of the rights that Human Beings have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8NneR8ilc
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cayce-case-um
Patron with Honors
Smilla -- thanks for sharing that video -- it was great. How awesome that you got to experience these creatures first hand!
Here is a link to that video in which Koko reacts to the death of her pet kitten, All Ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdACUfI6nA0
Here is a link to that video in which Koko reacts to the death of her pet kitten, All Ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdACUfI6nA0
Jquepublic
Silver Meritorious Patron
Honestly? I think those docs are long gone. Look at the huge flap and handling to get them back. No way they would risk that happening twice.
Still looking into whether or not copies exist. If I find them, I'll share.
AnonKat
Crusader
So in fact he is an Anon who managed to escape his basement to own a fleet in the end and than return to a semi basement trailer.
from basement we come to basement we will return
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Veda
Sponsor
From the A.R.S. archives. This is one of a couple of comments on Hubbard and pot by Ladayla, a.k.a. Challenge. (She has made this prior Internet identity known so no confidence is being broken.)
"Hub smoked pot on occasions. He said that what it did for him was give him bad breath. The pot extant at the time was from East Texas. Grown by Jack Norwood. Happily called 'black mojo'. Hub was much more into hallucinogens and chemicals, and chemical moisture of drugs."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....fa21a/23b4fa5195af5802?lnk=gst&q=ladayla,+pot
"Hub smoked pot on occasions. He said that what it did for him was give him bad breath. The pot extant at the time was from East Texas. Grown by Jack Norwood. Happily called 'black mojo'. Hub was much more into hallucinogens and chemicals, and chemical moisture of drugs."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....fa21a/23b4fa5195af5802?lnk=gst&q=ladayla,+pot
Ogsonofgroo
Crusader
GreyWolf
Gold Meritorious Patron
Seconal was called reds. By Lilly Co. They came in 40mg and 100mg.
AnonKat
Crusader
Amarican pot around that time was less potent than a pixistick.
Canabis isn't a big deal. Wel it makes Hunbbard one of the "dudes"
Canabis isn't a big deal. Wel it makes Hunbbard one of the "dudes"
Veda
Sponsor
My, my, this is certainly an emotional topic.
At some point, maybe I'll consolidate the various pertinent posts on this and other threads, plus links to interviews such as the Russell Miller interview of Richard DeMille, and other items.
Hubbard's drug and alcohol habits changed over the years as he grew older and he had health problems.
Possibly the "drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and grays" of the mid/late 1960s was his last big booze&drug indulgence.
Of course, as Scientologists are taught that ingesting one drug is enough to destroy one's future for eternity - unless one has the necessary Scientology drug handlings - it's unlikely that they'd consider the possibility that L. Ron Hubbard was ever a pill popper.
At some point, maybe I'll consolidate the various pertinent posts on this and other threads, plus links to interviews such as the Russell Miller interview of Richard DeMille, and other items.
Hubbard's drug and alcohol habits changed over the years as he grew older and he had health problems.
Possibly the "drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and grays" of the mid/late 1960s was his last big booze&drug indulgence.
Of course, as Scientologists are taught that ingesting one drug is enough to destroy one's future for eternity - unless one has the necessary Scientology drug handlings - it's unlikely that they'd consider the possibility that L. Ron Hubbard was ever a pill popper.
