WHO is Donating These Huge Sums to IAS? Info Needed

G

Gottabrain

Guest
and here's the property connection to Bob Duggan and thus perhaps the connection to the Ideal Morgues, thanks to WWP (thanks, Anon!!):

"Scientologist and Pharmacyclics CEO, Bob Duggan was Reed Slatkins mentor

Scientologist Operating Thetan VIII Rainer Ramses Erdtmann is vice president of Pharmacyclics."

"Rainer M. Erdtmann is Secretary, VP-Finance & Administration at Pharmacyclics, Inc. and Co-Founder at United Properties Immobilien & Anlagen GmbH.

He received his undergraduate degree from the University of Münster.

OT8 Rainer Erdtmann owns UNITED PROPERTIES Immobilien & Anlagen GmbH with his OT8 brother Stefan Erdtmann.

http://stefanerdtmann.businesscard2.com/

http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/s/stefan-erdtmann.html"

WWP link here: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/thre...lion-deal-with-johnson-johnson-janssen.97466/
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Kashoggi's sister was the mother of Dodi Fayed and people wonder why there are conspiracy theorists.

I don't think of an cursory accounting audit as a conspiracy theory. These things go on all the time but aren't ever caught until someone takes a close look and has a reason to do so.

It would be far more shocking to believe that COS is making so much more money honestly with less than 75% of its former membership, a dictator with sole signatory on accounts and no outside accountability for over two decades.

Especially the dictator of a cult that practices and teaches the art of deception, lying and cheating, breaking laws and uses others for his own benefit.

I wouldn't expect anything less than a herd of elephants in their accounts. Would you?
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I think you missed my point.

I wasn't talking about the audit, but one should be done as there are more than elephants in the maze of mirrors.
I don't think of an cursory accounting audit as a conspiracy theory. These things go on all the time but aren't ever caught until someone takes a close look and has a reason to do so.

It would be far more shocking to believe that COS is making so much more money honestly with less than 75% of its former membership, a dictator with sole signatory on accounts and no outside accountability for over two decades.

Especially the dictator of a cult that practices and teaches the art of deception, lying and cheating, breaking laws and uses others for his own benefit.

I wouldn't expect anything less than a herd of elephants in their accounts. Would you?
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I think you missed my point.

I wasn't talking about the audit, but one should be done as there are more than elephants in the maze of mirrors.

You're right. DM would make great friends with all kinds of crims, wouldn't he? Sorry I didn't give it enough attention just yet. The arms thing is a very big deal.

I'm just trying to get together enough evidence to justify a full audit and seizure of accounts. It's actually much easier than I thought it would be, too.... there's no direction I can even look toward that doesn't have an elephant. Crikey, I'm only on the FIRST NAME on the IAS list! :omg:
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I applaud your enthusiasm.:thumbsup:
You're right. DM would make great friends with all kinds of crims, wouldn't he? Sorry I didn't give it enough attention just yet. The arms thing is a very big deal.

I'm just trying to get together enough evidence to justify a full audit and seizure of accounts. It's actually much easier than I thought it would be, too.... there's no direction I can even look toward that doesn't have an elephant. Crikey, I'm only on the FIRST NAME on the IAS list! :omg:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I applaud your enthusiasm.:thumbsup:

Thanks, Freethinker. It's all in the evil purps. :devil:

Oh WAIT, those are GOOD purps, I'm the GOOD guy now! :angel:

Then again...Maybe I'm just a geek ... I always thought solving puzzles was FUN. :geekon:
 

Intelligence

Silver Meritorious Patron
WOW! Just checked out Duggan's Stock. It went from a low in 2011 of $4.75 to a current price of $15.02. The high for 52 weeks was $15.82.

There are over 68 million shares, with a market value of over one Billion dollars!

Incredible:omg:

I found the following to be interesting. This is not your typical "Psych" phamacutical company, but rather one who is avoiding the psych drug realm? Perhaps this is why this is accepted in the COS?

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/pcyc
We are a clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company focused on developing and commercializing innovative small-molecule drugs for the treatment of cancer and immune mediated diseases. Our mission and goal is to build a viable biopharmaceutical company that designs, develops and commercializes novel therapies intended to improve quality of life, increase duration of life and resolve serious unmet medial healthcare needs

.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
WOW! Just checked out Duggan's Stock. It went from a low in 2011 of $4.75 to a current price of $15.02. The high for 52 weeks was $15.82.

There are over 68 million shares, with a market value of over one Billion dollars!

Incredible:omg:

I found the following to be interesting. This is not your typical "Psych" phamacutical company, but rather one who is avoiding the psych drug realm? Perhaps this is why this is accepted in the COS?

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/pcyc


.

Yah, but look at the 5 year graph and you'll see the highs and lows.

But what you say about Duggan - I thought the same thing. The more I read about him and his company, the more I thought he might be okay. Now his company has partnered up with that monster pharmaceutical company, Janssen Biotech, and they actually MAKE psych drugs - it is part of Johnson & Johnson (link: http://seekingalpha.com/article/313249-pharmacyclics-scores-big-with-janssen-biotech-deal) so that excuse doesn't hold up any more. They are CO-OWNERS. PARTNERS.

And Duggan still has outpoints:
1) The $20 mil he's apparently donated to IAS, apparently more than once? Where did it come from?
2) He still has no tangible product for his pharma company.
3) He was intricately involved with the Reed Slatkin scandal - where investors were defrauded out of $254 mil over 15 years http://www.skeptictank.org/slatkin/rslat085.htm
4) The direct real estate contacts with an Scn RE company that COS/Scn has used.

Duggan partnered up with Janssen, selling what appears to be over half his company (the controlling percent) in exchange for only $150 mil upfront to cover his responsibilities in their agreement - which is 40% of expenses and sales advertising, etc. Unless Duggan makes his milestones (targets) for completion of stages of the drug purported to help with cancer (and this is how he gets more money from Janssen, too), Janssen is not going to be sweet & understanding when Duggan runs out of money and Janssen will end up owning his company and his hide. Because that's the ruthless way it's done - and Janssen will run up those advertising bills beyond Duggan's ability to pay his 40%. But maybe that's the plan, maybe Duggan misrepresented his initial results and he plans to just sell his stock to Janssen when he can't make his milestones and hike out of there. :run: He's an investor, not an inventor. If he's never been anything but a scammer, what happens next will tell. But he's in a tight spot now, whether he fully realizes it or not. Results or GTFO basically.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Intelligence

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yah, but look at the 5 year graph and you'll see the highs and lows.

But what you say about Duggan - I thought the same thing. The more I read about him and his company, the more I thought he might be okay. Now his company has partnered up with that monster pharmaceutical company, Janssen Biotech, and they actually MAKE psych drugs - it is part of Johnson & Johnson (link: http://seekingalpha.com/article/313249-pharmacyclics-scores-big-with-janssen-biotech-deal) so that excuse doesn't hold up any more. They are CO-OWNERS. PARTNERS.

And Duggan still has outpoints:
1) The $20 mil he's apparently donated to IAS, apparently more than once? Where did it come from?
2) He still has no tangible product for his pharma company.
3) He was intricately involved with the Reed Slatkin scandal - where investors were defrauded out of $254 mil over 15 years http://www.skeptictank.org/slatkin/rslat085.htm
4) The direct real estate contacts with an Scn RE company that COS/Scn has used.

Duggan partnered up with Janssen, selling what appears to be over half his company (the controlling percent) in exchange for only $150 mil upfront to cover his responsibilities in their agreement - which is 40% of expenses and sales advertising, etc. Unless Duggan makes his milestones (targets) for completion of stages of the drug purported to help with cancer (and this is how he gets more money from Janssen, too), Janssen is not going to be sweet & understanding when Duggan runs out of money and Janssen will end up owning his company and his hide. Because that's the ruthless way it's done - and Janssen will run up those advertising bills beyond Duggan's ability to pay his 40%. But maybe that's the plan, maybe Duggan misrepresented his initial results and he plans to just sell his stock to Janssen when he can't make his milestones and hike out of there. :run: He's an investor, not an inventor. If he's never been anything but a scammer, what happens next will tell. But he's in a tight spot now, whether he fully realizes it or not. Results or GTFO basically.

Tx, now I see how much potential trouble he's in.
 

Intelligence

Silver Meritorious Patron
Few people can achieve keeping me up all night following information trails, but indeed you have done it:thumbsup: - - usually I can accomplish this tired task all
by my foolish self,..., LOL.

But WOW!!! - - what a trail I had to follow to convince and prove to myself that
this is what it is. Amazing!

I'm still having a chore wrapping my mind around how the COS can support Duggan as a member, when It's obvious that he is part and parcel of a Psych Drug Company?

And he definately is. (as ALL the Links lead to the evidence).

.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
There's nothing unusual about Pharmacyclics’ current financial scene. You'll find its story replicated scores, if not hundreds, of times throughout the pharmaceutical industry.

Big pharma hasn't created new drugs for a long time. For many years, big pharma companies have been investment, marketing, sales and distribution companies.

Big pharma buys / finds new drugs created by small, start-up companies run by scientists, venture capitalists and other financial "angels," which often include investors and owners that are big pharma or owned by big pharma.

Even before the Great Recession, life sciences start-ups have been shaky investments. They’re long shots. Right now, stock prices for many public life sciences companies are low. Life sciences companies that want to go public now are having an especially hard go of it. These days, when they do manage to go public, their stock is often purchased by investors who already own big pieces of the company, who are just doubling down on their investment. In other words, the VCs who are issuing the IPO are buying their own stock, buying low and gambling again.

The money men always demand the most favorable deal terms. Always has been that way, always will be that way.

The only unusual aspects of this story are:

1. An owner of a pharmaceutical company (of any ilk) is a Scientologist (of any ilk).

2. This particular Scientologist does very little Scientology himself (his wife is the one who seems to be the committed Scientologist).

3. This particular Scientologist is not an idiot. He's a hard-nosed, highly experienced investor, businessman and negotiator. He has an investment company and employs a full-time broker who runs his funds. He would recognize a con game from the get-go. Yet, he's still involved in a con game and on record as having donated $20M to the Church of Scientology.

4. $20M donations are not donations -- they're transactions.


What could be going on here? Perhaps …

1. This particular Scientologist was jacked up for baksheesh by the CoS because his wife wanted to keep doing her addiction, and this is the price of her addiction? (Admittedly, $20M is one helluva lotta family love, even if the husband and wife did do a marriage course together several years ago.)

2. The hard-nosed, highly experienced investor / businessman / negotiator received something else (financially speaking or otherwise) in exchange for his $20M.

3. The parties to whom he gave the $20M also got something else out of the transaction.

4. He didn't really donate $20M.

5. Other?

If, on the face of it, it doesn’t make sense, then the face of it isn’t all there is to it.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
There's nothing unusual about Pharmacyclics’ current financial scene. You'll find its story replicated scores, if not hundreds, of times throughout the pharmaceutical industry.

Big pharma hasn't created new drugs for a long time. For many years, big pharma companies have been investment, marketing, sales and distribution companies.

Big pharma buys / finds new drugs created by small, start-up companies run by scientists, venture capitalists and other financial "angels," which often include investors and owners that are big pharma or owned by big pharma.

Even before the Great Recession, life sciences start-ups have been shaky investments. They’re long shots. Right now, stock prices for many public life sciences companies are low. Life sciences companies that want to go public now are having an especially hard go of it. These days, when they do manage to go public, their stock is often purchased by investors who already own big pieces of the company, who are just doubling down on their investment. In other words, the VCs who are issuing the IPO are buying their own stock, buying low and gambling again.

The money men always demand the most favorable deal terms. Always has been that way, always will be that way.

The only unusual aspects of this story are:

1. An owner of a pharmaceutical company (of any ilk) is a Scientologist (of any ilk).

2. This particular Scientologist does very little Scientology himself (his wife is the one who seems to be the committed Scientologist).

3. This particular Scientologist is not an idiot. He's a hard-nosed, highly experienced investor, businessman and negotiator. He has an investment company and employs a full-time broker who runs his funds. He would recognize a con game from the get-go. Yet, he's still involved in a con game and on record as having donated $20M to the Church of Scientology.

4. $20M donations are not donations -- they're transactions.


What could be going on here? Perhaps …

1. This particular Scientologist was jacked up for baksheesh by the CoS because his wife wanted to keep doing her addiction, and this is the price of her addiction? (Admittedly, $20M is one helluva lotta family love, even if the husband and wife did do a marriage course together several years ago.)

2. The hard-nosed, highly experienced investor / businessman / negotiator received something else (financially speaking or otherwise) in exchange for his $20M.

3. The parties to whom he gave the $20M also got something else out of the transaction.

4. He didn't really donate $20M.

5. Other?

If, on the face of it, it doesn’t make sense, then the face of it isn’t all there is to it.

Thanks, TG1, for your helpful summary and info.

1. You have the wrong concept of Duggan. I wouldn't trust old records for his current involvement in Scn. He's personally been an active, dedicated Scientologist for ages. That's how Slatkin knew him:

"Then, in 1983, their second son was born. They agreed that they needed more money: "And my wife and I were looking at each other and we said, well, we've been volunteering this stuff here for, you know, 20 years between us and it might be a good idea to see if, while we're doing all this volunteer work, that we have enough money to raise our family."

That's what led Mr. Slatkin to fellow Scientologist Mr. Duggan, a successful investor, to learn about investing, according to Mr. Slatkin's deposition."

http://www.skeptictank.org/slatkin/rslat048.htm (you really should read this)

2. Yes, he did pay it. The $20 million is only from ONE year's list of IAS donors. I haven't added up all the years yet, but believe his total contributions are more like $30 to $40 million in total. He seems to be donating huge amounts to the IAS every year. His donation is at LEAST $20 million if just ONE of those issues is true. So that is conservatively low - no reason to believe every year is fabricated and his name and donations a falsehood. That makes less sense than the donations.

3. There is no reason to believe all investors are level-headed and wouldn't have personal interest in Scn. There are about a dozen investors who are Scientologists who have been involved in scams or schemes in years past and several are currently on the IAS donors list as well (i.e., Michael Baybak). Your premise is incorrect. Duggan is very experienced as an investor, but success? Not so much since Scn. Just Google him and read his history for yourself.

4. The reason he took on a partner is the reason that is obvious - he was short of cash. The articles tell exactly why his deal wasn't so favorable - it was his history - so there was no need for conjecture there. It's understandable he might be short of cash after some $30-40 billion in IAS donations. So he compromised about it being a big pharm company - and took on a partner he might not have taken on otherwise. Or, maybe he didn't personally care. Not everyone in Scn is crazily anti-drug and he obviously is not.

People make compromises all the time when they run short of funds.

5. Other - Extremely heavy coercion tactics, perhaps even threatened blackmail by the IAS thugs. There are horror stories about this, Synthia started writing a few of her own experiences here. Scn doesn't make 3X as much with only 25% of its former membership without some monstrous donations from a select, small number.

Or, to use the business word, it was "leveraged" out of these people.

I still think there's some connection to the real estate though. Haven't finished with that yet, but the rest makes sense to me.

Oh, and Duggan had some high priced professionals put together his financials, accounting and other things for him, too. Pricewaterhouse Coopers, for one, and his research team are all top of the line, too. This may make him appear much more acceptable, professional and level-headed than he actually is.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Terril park

Sponsor
Thanks, TG1, for your helpful summary and info.

1. You have the wrong concept of Duggan. I wouldn't trust old records for his current involvement in Scn. He's personally been an active, dedicated Scientologist for ages. That's how Slatkin knew him:

"Then, in 1983, their second son was born. They agreed that they needed more money: "And my wife and I were looking at each other and we said, well, we've been volunteering this stuff here for, you know, 20 years between us and it might be a good idea to see if, while we're doing all this volunteer work, that we have enough money to raise our family."

That's what led Mr. Slatkin to fellow Scientologist Mr. Duggan, a successful investor, to learn about investing, according to Mr. Slatkin's deposition."

http://www.skeptictank.org/slatkin/rslat048.htm (you really should read this)

2. Yes, he did pay it. The $20 million is only from ONE year's list of IAS donors. I haven't added up all the years yet, but believe his total contributions are more like $30 to $40 million in total. He seems to be donating huge amounts to the IAS every year. His donation is at LEAST $20 million if just ONE of those issues is true. So that is conservatively low - no reason to believe every year is fabricated and his name and donations a falsehood. That makes less sense than the donations.

3. There is no reason to believe all investors are level-headed and wouldn't have personal interest in Scn. There are about a dozen investors who are Scientologists who have been involved in scams or schemes in years past and several are currently on the IAS donors list as well (i.e., Michael Baybak). Your premise is incorrect. Duggan is very experienced as an investor, but success? Not so much since Scn. Just Google him and read his history for yourself.

4. The reason he took on a partner is the reason that is obvious - he was short of cash. The articles tell exactly why his deal wasn't so favorable - it was his history - so there was no need for conjecture there. It's understandable he might be short of cash after some $30-40 billion in IAS donations. So he compromised about it being a big pharm company - and took on a partner he might not have taken on otherwise. Or, maybe he didn't personally care. Not everyone in Scn is crazily anti-drug and he obviously is not.

People make compromises all the time when they run short of funds.

5. Other - Extremely heavy coercion tactics, perhaps even threatened blackmail by the IAS thugs. There are horror stories about this, Synthia started writing a few of her own experiences here. Scn doesn't make 3X as much with only 25% of its former membership without some monstrous donations from a select, small number.

Or, to use the business word, it was "leveraged" out of these people.

I still think there's some connection to the real estate though. Haven't finished with that yet, but the rest makes sense to me.

Oh, and Duggan had some high priced professionals put together his financials, accounting and other things for him, too. Pricewaterhouse Coopers, for one, and his research team are all top of the line, too. This may make him appear much more acceptable, professional and level-headed than he actually is.




Very interesting thread. However I'll play devils advocate for a bit here.

You said:-

"Connections matter. The fact that Scientology spends millions on its Narconons, ACHRs and other anti-drug and anti-medical groups ...."

As far as I know CO$ uses these areas as revenue. Excuses to screw more money out of the parishioners. For example Narconons charge $25,000 per patient and skimp on
paying out for proper medical treatment, nursing facilities and housing facilities. Also
in general most scientology activists usually fund themselves.

Mr Duggan has not until now been involved in Psyche drugs. The tie up with Janson
may give CO$ some PR worries. In fact his company Pharmacyclics is researching cancer cures. I'd say a good product. Pharmacyclics had not brought a product to market prior to Duggan's involvement. Looks like it was just an investment opportunity to him as they seem to have a promising product which they clearly couldn't fund themselves.

"Mr. Duggan is the Founder of the investment firm Robert W. Duggan & Associates. Mr. Duggan has been a private venture investor for more than 30 years and has participated as a director of, investor in and advisor to numerous small and large businesses in the medical equipment, computer local and wide area network, PC hardware and software distribution, digital encryption, consumer retail goods and outdoor media communication industries. Mr. Duggan has also assisted in corporate planning, capital formation and management for his various investments. He received the Congressman’s Medal of Merit and in 2000 he was named a Knight of the Legion of Honor by President Jacques Chirac. Mr. Duggan is currently also a director of Intuitive Surgical, Inc. He is a member of the University of California at Santa Barbara Foundation Board of Trustees."

http://www.pharmacyclics.com/pharmacyclics_management.html

It seems that Pharmacyclics may not even be his main interest, finance seems to be. Not sure how accurate the above clip from the website is. He has recieved two awards, one from the president of a country. I have no idea what for and a brief seach hasn't helped.. The Legion of Honour is Frances highest decoration, and the congressmans award was initiated by Ron Paul.

Some critics have commented that the only celebrities CO$ has are movie and pop stars.
Bob Duggan is from a different cut of cloth.



The website for our internet Org.
http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs/
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Very interesting thread. However I'll play devils advocate for a bit here.

You said:-

"Connections matter. The fact that Scientology spends millions on its Narconons, ACHRs and other anti-drug and anti-medical groups ....

Terril, forgodsakes, I know you know how to quote someone on ESMB. This is a misquote. Quote me correctly.

And you are taking a birdseye view. I am not going to niggle over whether NNs and ACHRs take more than they give or give more than they take. They are both a PR machine of front line, publicly accepted arms of Scientology and they also earn income (not so much CCHR)

The last person I wrote back hadn't even read the refs I gave. I did a heap of research today and everything of importance is fully documented.

Pharmacyclics has no product yet, so you can't say it is a "good product". It seems to be researching in a good area and it appears to be getting somewhere based on the promotion and there are good, reputable researchers in it. That's about all anyone can say at this point. It may not be any of that. Nobody knows at this point but a lot of people are investing money in it. We will see.

I don't have any qualms with Bob Duggan on a personal basis at all except I wonder why the heck anyone would give $20 mil to the IAS - and it seems he is giving $10 mil every year with the way the IAS reports it.

But COS and the IAS should not consider someone's value as a church member based on their financial donations. Bob has been considering this partnership for 18 months, so I am sure it was no secret to the IAS, either.

Regardless, when he is THE SINGLE largest financial supporter of the IAS, if this "Church of Scientology" actually believes in its own stated principles as completely as it endlessly promotes it does, this connection should be very, very worrisome to them. This, I see, is something you agree with me about.

It's not a hit on Bob. It's a hit on the hypocrisy of a church for which a surprising number of current, active members show a complete disregard for the policies written by its Founder in the name of making money.

Our views may differ, but yours is well taken, Terril. (Except the silly point of whether the NNs take or give more... hard to say. They get a LOT of government grant money, too, and a lot of advertising)

Sheila
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Just a side note to this excellent thread.

What bothers me most about these 'donations' to the IAS is what could be done if the money was put to good use. It could save many lives, restore eyesight to many blind people, educate many thousands, and much more. Just a few dollars given to the right people, can change lives.

These people don't matter to Scientology, of course.
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
In this thread (linked to the St Pete Times article on the Super Power building), it mentions that Duggan donated $12 million to that project.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/thre...lion-deal-with-johnson-johnson-janssen.97466/

If he's donated at least $20 million to the IAS and $12 to SP, that makes $32 million in direct donations.

Who knows what else he's donated for (aside from services), not to mention lending money to "friends" - cycles set up by registrars.
 
Top