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Who is the most dangerous person to Scientology?

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Maybe we should pass the hat, raise a million bux (10,000 exes and anons willing to kick 100 bux will do it) and simply buy one off? As you said, they are mercinaries. A merc generally goes to the highest bidder.

Pete

What makes you think it would be worth a million bucks? Even if you could find one saying he had been commissioned to murder someone there wouldn't be any incontrovertible proof of that. For the rest of it, what value is there in a "tell-all" article about trailing Marty around all day?

Paul
 

Carmel

Crusader
HH, in answer to your op (which I didn't really answer before), *potentially*, Heber would be the *most* dangerous, IMO. He has history with LRH, DM, and the so called "Church".

He was in the loop and knows *all* the scoop on the entire farce, from early on. Except for one other, I don't know of others who would know what he knows. In saying this though, I have little to no hope of him ever telling the story.

I think that the only other one, who could be put in this category, is Norman Starkey - Same goes for him though......I can't see him *ever* divulging what he knows.
 

Carmel

Crusader
PS.......

In my early days in Scn, when I was the most naive about the "Church", I respected Heber and Norman. I soon after considered them and all the others "PR'y" and I didn't like what they said or forwarded at events.

I listened to so many International Mgt Speakers for years. I ended up sitting at those events, *listening and looking* for the "out-points" in their speels, and usually found quite a few. There was one man though, who didn't spew any out, when he came to ANZO. He was the *only* one of many who I agreed with with, and the *only* Int Exec or "management terminal" who I respected and trusted for years while I was still in (buggar the bastard, he gave me hope :coolwink: ).

He was Greg Hughes. "Exec Int WISE" or something like that. I've googled to try and find what happened to him, but haven't been successful.

I don't know what became of the guy, but he was a good'n when I met him, and if he is still the man he was when I had discussion with him, then the potential for his effect would be awesome - I'd love to see him hook up with Xenophon......that'd be a wild combo, and indeed "dangerous". :)
 

anonkatie

Patron with Honors
My intial thought was tiny Davey.

But then I realized we are all forgetting about what started this shit storm to get us where we are today.

Anonymous, with an assist from TC.

While I certainly agree with most of the other listings for revelation of interesting info, the emergence of anonymous, the greater internet and the media has resulted in giving Sci a continual non stop ass kicking.

That attitude has permeated all levels of culture.

So for shear cutting him down to size(so to speak), I doff my chapeau to Anon.:happydance:
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
I have to go with Kirstie Alley, simply because she has the most media exposure right now on prime time television. I watch her 'Kirstie Alley's Big Life' and she is funny. She won't affect potential spenders probably. Mostly she relates to couch potatoes at this point. But she has a really BIG mouth!!! :D
 

anonkatie

Patron with Honors
Hatshepsut,

I don't think we can be anticipating anything from Kirstie any time soon.

She wouldn't be talking; her mouth is always full.
 

DCAnon

Silver Meritorious Patron
I really believe that the celebs are the most dangerous to Scientology. I understand their goal to recruit celebs to "validate" Scientology and try to get others to emulate the celeb's actions....but celebrities are notoriously unstable. They are constantly doing odd, shocking, inappropriate things to get attention and with all the tabloids, there's endless stories and gossip. The celebs who are Scientologists aren't even towards the normal or popular end of the spectrum, they're people who are basically laughingstocks to everyone worldwide.

Tom Cruise, Travolta, Kirstie, these are people that harm Scientology because they believe in it. The more they promote Scientology and the more the end up in the Inquirer for doing something stupid or shocking or cult-ish, the more people joke about Scientology.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Why Mike Rinder is #1:

Because he a wildcard JOKER in the deck that beats Queens, Kings and Aces and any other card Scientology can show.

The-Joker-726801.jpg

The entirety of Scientology's success, money and power come from one thing only. The ability to tell lies.

Small lies, huge lies.

Clever lies, crazy lies.

Beginning with DMSMH and the heady founding days when Hubbard boldly posted a box at reception instructing his followers to place their prescription glasses inside--because they would no longer be needed after coming in and applying Ron’s miraculous new tech.

The great body of Hubbard's work and even his autobiographical information was the stuff of pure myth-ed withholds.

Hubbard raised his vast fortunes thru the perfected art of lying about clear, operating thetan and total freedom. COB, likewise, has fashioned his own billion dollar deceitful niche by repackaging tech and selling indulgences in the form of Ideal Orgs, IAS and other spiritual statuses.

Historically, the slow but systematic dismantling of the CoS has been achieved these last few years by critics and anon and media by exposing the truth about Scientology.

But it is not the truth that most damages Scientology.

It's not showing that Hubbard wasn't a war hero. It's not showing that Scientologists have wacky beliefs about supreme galactic rulahs that enslaved the universe with space ghosts. It's not about exposing Scientology's psychological abuse, brutal corporal punishment and fair game policies. It's not about revealing that disconnections are systemic.It's not about shining the light on Scientology's criminality.

All these things, harmful as they are to Scientology, have not derailed that billion dollar religious train. That locomotive's still chugging down the track with adoring fans lined up along the route, throwing money at it and trying to jump on. Less people, admittedly, but the trains are still running on time.

Media runs stories about SP declares, Family disconnections, RPF prisons, Scientologists being sentenced to prison for multi-faceted, felonious conspiracies and the Fair Gaming of innocent people like Paulette Cooper. But those supposed “kill shot” bullets just kinda bounced off and Scientology didn’t stop.

One would have thought that after ‘Madman or Messiah’ or ‘A Piece of Blue Sky’ or Lisa McPherson or South Park’s revealing on international media the secrets of Xeun and OT III would have done it. The church should have crumbled, no? What about the revelation that top Operating Thetan David Miscavige physically assaults, imprisons and brutalizes church members—that should have sunk at least the Freewinds shouldn’t it?

But, these things just don’t kill the beast of Scientology.

Then what does damage it?

Not attacking their bizarre and delusional religious beliefs.

Not in showing that Hubbard and his cult followers are nuts.

It's about sparking in others the undeniably compelling realization that Scientology LIES.

That Scientology's Founder lies. That Scientology's senior management lies. That Scientology's priests lie. That Scientology parishioners, Clear and OT alike, lie.

That lies are policy. That lies are greatest good. That lies are an "acceptable truth". That lies are drilled to a pass.

That the lie will set you free.

Anything less than “Scientology LIES!” is dismissed by most because of things like the following:

• Well, it sure looks like they beat their people but those wives said absolutely not, so it’s one of those he-said, she-said deals….
• Yeah, Hubbard sure sounded wacky, but if he was so demented, how come so many millions of people and famous celebrities say such great things about it?
• Gee, those disconnections and Fair Game things sound bad, but…I am really wondering more about what is on TV later tonight.

It’s only when people are hit with the thunderbolt that “Scientology LIES!” do they begin to discount and ignore everything that comes from a Scientologist.

That is why Rinder represents the most formidable weapon. Because he was the personification of the church’s lying. He was trained to lie. Instructed to lie. Ordered to lie. Threatened and terrorized if he did not lie. Punished, imprisoned and beaten if he did not lie.

Rinder can explain and enlighten the world that when Scientology, Scientologists or their celebrity spokesmen are talking, that they are LYING.

Lying is the foundational piers and girders that support the entire “Bridge”.

Revealing something bad about the Church is not the same as revealing that they lie.

Reveal a wacky belief and people think, “hey, what about the virgin birth and Noah and….”

Reveal the crimes of the church and people can write if off as an anomaly, the act of a “lone-gunman” within the corpus of the Church acting against scripture.

However, reveal that Scientology practices deception, encourages and, in fact, demands lying—and Scientology’s power instantly begins to crumble. Their credibility is shot. Their ability to spin and misdirect is immobilized. Their delusional propaganda becomes laughable.

Lying is their only weapon. When they are exposed as liars, they are defenseless.

Rinder can tell in simple, credible stories how he, as spokesman for the Church lied to the world on a consistent basis. He can look in the camera and explain the shocking practice of Scientologist lying as a holy and sacred ritual that will bring their eternal bliss.

Rinder can document with policy and narratives how Ron Hubbard demanded that parishioners “Tell Lies. Tell more Lies. Get other people to produce as to tell more lies.”

Rinder can show how the magic trick is done. Once you see it, it is powerless to fool you.

Imagine, for example, if Rinder explained the techniques of lying that Scientology trained him in. Then they ran archived footage of Scientologists lying such as Heber, Miscavige, Tommy Davis and even Rinder himself with his expert commentary to freeze-frame and blow the whistle each time a lie is told.

This is the explosive story that expose journalists have been so desperately seaching for on Scientology. The bombshell is inches away if they can get Rinder talking about institutionalized lying and LieTech...

The public outside of Scientology really can never understand the depths of depravity Scientologists will sink to in order to sell their lies.

Rinder is more likely to break the magician’s code than is Heber or Tommy Davis, which is why he is ranked higher.

But they all three have the magic bullet.

Wanna fantasize? How about Anderson Cooper interviewing a blown Tommy Davis AND a blown Heber on the same show as Rinder, with all three (3) damning the CoS to hell with their own weapon of choice--lies. The world would not forget that the next time they heard Scientolgy's newest rookie spokesman take the mike and began to speak...

It is lies that built the Bridge. Just exposing the truth slows traffic on the bridge but bridges can be repaired.

However, exposing the lie-generating machine that builds and repairs bridges puts an end to the game for Scientology.

That’s where the rifles and bullets and tanks and ships and fighter-jets of Scientology’s armed forces get manufactured. Bomb the factory so they cannot make more and the war is over.

As long as Scientology can get away with lying they can rebuild.

Rinder has vital strategic and sensitive knowledge about the lie factory. He knows its fabric, techniques and vulnerabilities--enough to take it out.

That’s why he is #1 on Scientology's Most Dangerous Person list.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by Type4_PTS
I think that the #1 dangerous person is L. Ron Hubbard when he comes back attempting to claw his way back into a leadership position.

:hysterical:

That would be one helluva cool press conference with the Commodore--- especially if they ambushed him when the reincarnated Buddha was brought onstage, angrily claiming identity theft-- and Jerry Springer was the moderator.
 
I think the most dangerouse person to Scientology would be a person who is honest with himself about Scientology. T

hat would exclude any of the people that Hoax mentioned.

That person is probably unseen and unknown at this time.

He may be an expeditor somewhere right now, or a CF I/C somewhere. Who knows?

But it will only be someone who deals with the truth that brings the Church to its knees.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I think the most dangerouse person to Scientology would be a person who is honest with himself about Scientology. T

hat would exclude any of the people that Hoax mentioned.

That person is probably unseen and unknown at this time.

He may be an expeditor somewhere right now, or a CF I/C somewhere. Who knows?

But it will only be someone who deals with the truth that brings the Church to its knees.

The Anabaptist Jacques

AJ, sure...could be!

That's why this "Top Ten" list is a flexible, ever-changing index. Kinda like the stock market or the FBI's "Most Wanted" list.

It's a fascinating possibility you paint. I had toyed with the idea of putting a "Black Swan" (*) on the list too as another wild card.

It makes some very intriguing scenarios!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
 

AlphOhm

Traveler of time/space
In my early days in Scn, when I was the most naive about the "Church", I respected Heber and Norman. I soon after considered them and all the others "PR'y" and I didn't like what they said or forwarded at events.

I listened to so many International Mgt Speakers for years. I ended up sitting at those events, *listening and looking* for the "out-points" in their speels, and usually found quite a few. There was one man though, who didn't spew any out, when he came to ANZO. He was the *only* one of many who I agreed with with, and the *only* Int Exec or "management terminal" who I respected and trusted for years while I was still in (buggar the bastard, he gave me hope :coolwink: ).

He was Greg Hughes. "Exec Int WISE" or something like that. I've googled to try and find what happened to him, but haven't been successful.

I don't know what became of the guy, but he was a good'n when I met him, and if he is still the man he was when I had discussion with him, then the potential for his effect would be awesome - I'd love to see him hook up with Xenophon......that'd be a wild combo, and indeed "dangerous". :)


He was WDC WISE. Great guy. I have not seen any data about him or Debbie for a while. There have been rumblings about Davey having disassembled WDC--hopefully he is not in "SP Hall".

I had actually hoped to see him hop over that Gold fence a few months ago.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
In my opinion if she wakes up and is telling her and Uwes story and all the observations she made all over the years at the side of David Miscavige:

Laurisse Henley Smith (the former wife of Uwe Stuckenbrock)

P.S. I'm quite sure she even could tell us where to find Shelly Miscavige or what happened to her.
Love
Markus



Hi Markus,

Certainly! That would be one hell of a big domino to fall!

Best!
HH

dominos.jpg

 

AnonSunshine

Patron with Honors
1. Pat Broecker :omg:
2. Shelly Miscavige :melodramatic:
3. Rinder (former OSA) :confused2:
4. Ben Shaw (OSA) :grouch:
5. Kurt Weiland (OSA) :nervous:
 
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Carmel

Crusader
Hoaxee, I liked ya post regarding Rinder being the "joker", and the lies.

I think you made a good point. I know that one of the key factors which got Xenophon's attention and willingness to leap in the first place, was "proof" of lies and cover-ups by the Church........He got that info though, from honest people.

I'd agree that it's the exposure of the lies and the fact that it is built on lies, that will be it's downfall. But I think that the credibility of those who made a living out of lying, will always be in question.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Hoaxee, I liked ya post regarding Rinder being the "joker", and the lies. I think you made a good point. I know that one of the key factors which got Xenophon's attention and willingness to leap in the first place, was "proof" of lies and cover-ups by the Church........He got that info though, from honest people. I'd agree that it's the exposure of the lies and the fact that it is built on lies, that will be it's downfall. But I think that the credibility of those who made a living out of lying, will always be in question.


Thx C!

That is the power of all you and the Awesome Aussies in providing Xenophon with bullets. And why the Enquiry is an inestimably formidable weapon--because it showcases the lies of Scientology.

But not just the lies, themselves, that's been done before.

It is only when those lies are articulated and framed within a larger THEME that they have cumulative weight. Like a great courtroom attorney who has exhaustively prepared their case for months-long trial, everything is documented and done to build towards the Final Closing Argument which ties it all together under one binding that has the name of the book stamped on the cover.

That is the illuminating moment that the jury "gets it".

In literature, film and theatre it is what is commonly called the third act's "crisis climax". All of the known and not really understandable expositional material leading up to that moment is singularly defined in a moment of blinding clarity. And all of the vague, fuzzy pieces are aligned with a "flood of insight" about what it all means and how it fits together like a perfectly solved puzzle. ("OH! So that explains why.........")

That's what provides the traction and momentum to hit critical speed. The individual facts are, otherwise, like shooting a million bb's at an elephant. Each one bounces off. Doesn't matter how many are shot.

By the way, I received a personal message from Aaron informing me that he and he alone was the most dangerous person for Scientology. He added that, although not yet completed, his scientific research also indicates that he is the only person that even exists, period. :D
 
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