Who still uses any parts or ideas from Hubbard at all ?

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Simple question : who here uses ANYTHING at all they got from Hub ?

If so what and why ?


And do you believe in any concepts he offered like tone scale , reactive mind , past lives - ANYTHING at all .


I will admit - begrudgingly - that I still will look up words with a dictionary BUT I do not use study tech - i just spot a word i do not know and find and read a definition that makes sense for the context and read it !

That was something I was told to do in grammar school ! ( and ignored )


So - what do you guys do - and what benefits do you see coming from it ?


This is not a hammer 'em over the head thread - it is a find out what is going on AND how people feel one for me . :p
 
I still look up the meanings of words I don't know because that is just common sense, but like you I don't sit around making 100 fucking sentences and clearing every definition and the derivation and, and , and...

I believe in past lives because I think everyone needs some kind of "what happens when I die" story, and this is the one I have for now. I plan to study Buddhism and will hopefully adopt that. I have been in many sessions, but have never recalled any past life incidents, so I have no basis for my belief other than it makes death easier to swallow. But like I said, hoping to swap it out for Buddha.

I don't believe auditing works, but I do believe communication solves a bunch of stuff. Not sure I would go as far as believing it is "the universal solvent", but I truly believe it helps to talk shit out instead of bottle it up.

Really not a fan of his ethics tech. I do usually feel better when get shit off my chest, and the danger formula always made some sense to me, but a whole (conditions, o/ws, sec checks) I think it got taken way too far.

To summarize, I guess little bits here and there make sense, but for the most part I have no use for it.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Since you, on Arnie's advice, put people on ignore who have opinions re tech contrary to yours (You described this as trolling, having blinders on, and gaslighting), how would you be able to see the posts and, more significantly, why would you even be asking something you don't want to hear about?
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Why, are you police, CIA, NSA? Who are you working for?

Neither. He's a rather enthused ex who is asking questions of the sort of people hr disdains snf for whom he holds little if any brief.

Given that, I'm not sure how many frank answers he'll get, or be able to see.

This may just be a deprogramming thing, but if so, it'd lack efficacy on several counts. (He doesn't want to know.)
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Okay , Balthasar I am not a cop or NSA or CIA ...although I have been accused of being MI-5 and am still waiting on my back pay from SMERSH .


And Claire , it would be really cool if you let ME answer questions directed at me without answering FOR me AND using ad hominem .

You are free to answer or stay away from me .

I am asking as I got SOME info on who is here and what they believe BUT felt investigatng by directly asking was warranted .



I was honest about my beliefs and would appreciate if you let ME ask people about theirs .

You and I disagree about certain things and if you are ...communicating without attacking or disrupting me it is much more likely I will read your posts AND respond .


I can refer YOU to another post I wrote on just this type of thing :The Neuroscience of How Personal Attacks Shut Down Critical Thinking
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-Personal-Attacks-Shut-Down-Critical-Thinking


But I really am looking for ANSWERS from others here and would greatly benefit from the info .

I will of course report this all to my superiors at SMERSH .:coolwink:
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
Neither. He's a rather enthused ex who is asking questions of the sort of people hr disdains snf for whom he holds little if any brief.

Given that, I'm not sure how many frank answers he'll get, or be able to see.

This may just be a deprogramming thing, but if so, it'd lack efficacy on several counts. (He doesn't want to know.)

And Mrs mockingbird also does remind me a bit of my middle aged schoolmistress with her demanding demeanor questioning her pupils:).
 
yes

of course, loads of things MB

i'm an auditor. the auditor's code is essentially a noble code. i live and breathe the auditor's code and anyone who does so will "disenturbulate theta in their environment" and "raise people on the tone scale" just be their awakened, aware, nonevaluative, noninvalidatory presence. same goes for the creed. the creed might be window dressing to Co$$$ but for those who love it's principles it is a trellis the vine may climb to raise the blossoms of morning glories to the sun

i don't use a meter or model session or fill out any paperwork and shift silently into auditor gear when i go there using only 2WC but that 2WC is entirely informed by all the CLIV materials.

and...

N.B.! note bene; note well...

i always, always, always finish up with some sort of Hav; "look at those trees, check out those kids playing ball" etc...

and he lrh/csi imprimatur came up with some interesting nomenclature for the phenomena of the ethereal esoteric realm of soul. i do independent research there some of which i have written up on this board

maybe l ron hubbard was a wicked, wicked man; there is a brimstone whiff to many passages in his writings. maybe i'm a wicked man myself. but i adhere (despite my several petty vices) to the principles of "the right hand path" and the results seem to accord well with the usual considerations of what is godly...

i recommend those former students who renounce the scamming, the prevarication and the tyrrannies of CoS to give the materials themselves a second reading
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
yes

of course, loads of things MB

i'm an auditor. the auditor's code is essentially a noble code. i live and breathe the auditor's code and anyone who does so will "disenturbulate theta in their environment" and "raise people on the tone scale" just be their awakened, aware, nonevaluative, noninvalidatory presence. same goes for the creed. the creed might be window dressing to Co$$$ but for those who love it's principles it is a trellis the vine may climb to raise the blossoms of morning glories to the sun

i don't use a meter or model session or fill out any paperwork and shift silently into auditor gear when i go there using only 2WC but that 2WC is entirely informed by all the CLIV materials.

and...

N.B.! note bene; note well...

i always, always, always finish up with some sort of Hav; "look at those trees, check out those kids playing ball" etc...

and he lrh/csi imprimatur came up with some interesting nomenclature for the phenomena of the ethereal esoteric realm of soul. i do independent research there some of which i have written up on this board

maybe l ron hubbard was a wicked, wicked man; there is a brimstone whiff to many passages in his writings. maybe i'm a wicked man myself. but i adhere (despite my several petty vices) to the principles of "the right hand path" and the results seem to accord well with the usual considerations of what is godly...

i recommend those former students who renounce the scamming, the prevarication and the tyrrannies of CoS to give the materials themselves a second reading


I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve.

You have stated that you are a practicing christian. That means that not only are you abandoning the auditors code by using other practices but that you are also going against your christian beliefs, thou shalt not worship false idols.
 

Ral Z

Patron
I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve.

You have stated that you are a practicing christian. That means that not only are you abandoning the auditors code by using other practices but that you are also going against your christian beliefs, thou shalt not worship false idols.

I think mixing auditing with faith healing, for example, would be what that code is referring to. Believing in Christianity while at the same time practicing auditing as prescribed by L. Ron Hubbard might require some cognitive dissonance (might), but I don't see how that would qualify as mixing the processes of Scientology with other practices.

Not that I give a shit either way, but here I am posting on ESMB again. (Fuck.)
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just today I was doing some M-1 in German.

Sometimes I'll apply the danger formula when I'm just not making any progress in an area.

I did some Excalibur a few weeks ago (okay, that's not really LRH) and made a major long-standing emotional problem simply go away.

I'm trying to apply "attack, never defend" more.

And I applied the Doubt Formula to the Church of Scientology and they lost.


Believing in Christianity while at the same time practicing auditing as prescribed by L. Ron Hubbard

IMHO Upper Level Scientology and most mainstream religions are incompatible. "Praying to God to get up the Bridge" is a prime example. Someone (I don't remember who) even said LRH was the Antichrist. :)

Helena
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...

This is the only solitary part of Hubbard's tech that I use.

AXIOM 38. 1: STUPIDITY IS THE UNKNOWNNESS OF CONSIDERATION. 2:MECHANICAL DEFINITION: STUPIDITY IS UNKNOWNESS OF TIME, PLACE,FORM AND EVENT. 1: TRUTH IS THE EXACT CONSIDERATION. 2: TRUTH IS THEEXACT TIME, PLACE, FORM AND EVENT.Thus we see that failure to discover Truth brings about stupidity.


If one applies Axiom 38 to Scientology & Scientologists, the tech actually works.

Example: "Failure to discover truth brings about stupidity". Yet, Scientologists are not allowed to look at the internet, read whistleblowing articles by ex-Scientologists or even talk amongst themselves about Hubbard's lies, the fact that the tech doesn't produce Clears/OTs or the many fraudulent "donation" schemes whereby Scientology rips them off.

Scientologists, the self-proclaimed authorities on "knowing how to know" are reliably some of the stupidest people "on this planet".
 
I have NEVER seen any evidence that ANY bit of Scientology works. No so-called OT can move so much as a matchstick by willpower, let alone levitate, create visible mock-ups or use theta-perception. Hubbard tested none of his imaginary theories. He knew nothing about scientific method or controlled experiments.

Maybe a touch-assist works a bit, but Hubbard stole that anyway, and it is not based on Scientology theory.

The Axioms of Scientology are meaningless bullshit. The one thing they prove is that Hubbard knew zilch about science and logic.

After I broke away, I studied science, philosophy, psychology and religion to sort out my ideas. The result is that I am an atheist and skeptic.

So Scientology played plays an important part in my life. Thinking about it reminds me never to fall for esoteric bullshit again. A lesson well learned.

Mike
 

qylnquetl

Patron
I dunnow!

After breathing, reading and thinking in terms of engrams and axioms for about 40 years...

I don't use scio tech in any formal sense, no variation either. And then, what is really scio?

Using communication? Hm. I guess people have been using that for a very long time.

Training Routines?

I have been doing Qi Gong a lot. Surprise! Some yrs ago our group was introduced to a exercise that was exactly...tada! TR 0. I asked the leader afterwards about it - it was just another Qi Gong drill. Relief to me - I love to do TR 0. It is not a "scientology trademark hubbardian copyrighted go fuck yourself" drill. I doubt there really is any original hubbardian idea. Some are good some are bad nothing is original.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Mixing Practices

I found out that not just Scn has a probition against mixing practices. Some other disciplines also have it. The idea is that it obscures results/effects.

Of course now, I personally think one may be able to mix practices and have it work out ok. And if it didn't, well, then it was just another experiment.

A work-around for those concerned re mixing practices is to just do the things you want to try sequentially, if that's a worry.
 
I promise not to mix the processes of Scientology with other practices except when the preclear is physically ill and only medical means will serve.

You have stated that you are a practicing christian. That means that not only are you abandoning the auditors code by using other practices but that you are also going against your christian beliefs, thou shalt not worship false idols.

where do you see the worship of false idols in this?

it is the spirit, not the letter of the auditor's code which i abide fairly well. i find some of the apostle paul's writings problematic but his "the letter of the law klleth but the spirit of the law giveth life" is among the greatest aphorisms ever

also, to be precise, i have stated i am a professing christian. this certainly influences what i practice but since "practicing christian" means so many different things to so many...
 
I have NEVER seen any evidence that ANY bit of Scientology works. No so-called OT can move so much as a matchstick by willpower, let alone levitate, create visible mock-ups or use theta-perception. Hubbard tested none of his imaginary theories. He knew nothing about scientific method or controlled experiments.

Maybe a touch-assist works a bit, but Hubbard stole that anyway, and it is not based on Scientology theory.

The Axioms of Scientology are meaningless bullshit. The one thing they prove is that Hubbard knew zilch about science and logic.

After I broke away, I studied science, philosophy, psychology and religion to sort out my ideas. The result is that I am an atheist and skeptic.

So Scientology played plays an important part in my life. Thinking about it reminds me never to fall for esoteric bullshit again. A lesson well learned.

Mike

you ain't the lone ranger mikey, this post echoes the experience and opinion of many

my own experience is different
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
Well, for me. I'd have to have some way of knowing what it was that Hubbard came up with on his own.

So much of what the old boy claimed to be " Source " of has been shown to be the work of some one else either entirely or in large part. What was his & what was not ?

Anyway, after having moved away from Hubbards's teaching I've seen other things that make his stuff seem way slower than a slow boat to nowhere, but, more importantly it certainly seems the deeper one gets into his teaching the farther they get away from their own true self. Hubbard's seems to teach more entrapment than any true path to freedom.... but....hey to each his own.

Those who want to follow Hubbard are certainly free to do so yet should also be aware they do so at their own peril.
 

Miss Pert

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think mixing auditing with faith healing, for example, would be what that code is referring to. Believing in Christianity while at the same time practicing auditing as prescribed by L. Ron Hubbard might require some cognitive dissonance (might), but I don't see how that would qualify as mixing the processes of Scientology with other practices.

Not that I give a shit either way, but here I am posting on ESMB again. (Fuck.)

Not necessarily Ral. I know people that were told to stop going to yoga classes and if you required chiropractic assistance or physio treatment you needed permission as you should really being getting touch or nerve assists.
 
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