Whole Track Question.

[teadreamer]

Slightly off thread in that it is information not from Scientology or auditing, and I haven't googled or checked it on Wikipedia but I remember once hearing that a young child of about seven who lived in India, kept telling his parents that he use to have a different name, remembered dying and said that his real family lived in another village.
The parents at first brushed it off as imagination, but eventually followed up the data and upon taking the child to the village he mentioned, it became obvious that the child had been telling the truth all the time. The previous mother and the child recognized each other immediately if I remember rightly.

 

[uniquemand]

Which people? You quoted me but I'm certainly not amongst them.

Hmm... You got me. *Some people*. Often people who want to discredit the gains people have from Scientology sessions. I think this makes them feel right while making others wrong.

That's probably one of the more useful approaches.

Huzzah for agreement.

Everything?

Yes. :rolls eyes:

 

[uniquemand]

I learned from this thread and I thank EVERYONE who commented so far.

I hope more people will share their insights. They are so much better then
"Churches" PR!

I did have some "whole track" in my "auditing experience" (answering to Mr. Div6)

To elaborate:

1. I had a Cog of sorts, F/N, VGI's during one of my first metered rudiments (thanks to E/S, of course), something about me being a bad-ass brick-head, Marine-type, Space Soldier/Captain. Some amazing shit.

2. I F/Ned on being in Qual (as an SO terminal) on Apollo and being an OT III at least then, which I think is Bullshit. Supposedly, I died on Apollo last life time. I really don't think so.

3. F/N may be "comfort", yet not truth.

P.S. I also delivered thousands hours of auditing.
But nothing too advanced. Just NED and everything below.

IMO, F/N represents detachment. Needle reactions, IMO, represent introverted attention for whatever reasons (all that really matters is that attention went "in", and is kinda stuck there, doing stuff to the person that doesn't relate analytically to "out").

 

[uniquemand]

Kinda, but that's sort of contrary to the whole "Imaginary Incidents" handling that is applied in scientology to those imagining things or "dubbing in" incidents.

It's an interesting conundrum, no? :confused2:

Another interesting thing to consider (at least to me) is that the present is an imaginary incident (what people are calling "reality"). After all, we do not track every particle in the universe around us, we cannot track all the interactions, we cannot compute all of the relationships between every entity within our perception, and yet we construct a memory, and present perception, IMO, is essentially a memory instantly after it's formation that we seem to accept as what is real.

I put it to you that all incidents are imaginary, though some have more obvious referents in "public space".

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Okay. This is where we disagree. I think Hubbard makes a lot of unnecessary contradictions and confusions about this when it's just a function of the brain. ...

Well one of my general rules is that on matters relating to the sciences hubbard didn't know what he was talking about.

... This indicates that as we age, our memories become encoded according to language. Those that aren't encoded by language are lost.

Corollary: Memories earlier than infanthood could not be coded according to senses not yet used, i.e., sight, so would be lost. ...

Since the exact manner in which memory information is stored is uncertain, the precise function of specific brain structures in accessing memory is therefore also not completely understood. What is clear is the apparent ability to access & retain memory is affected by the physical function of the brain and that that alters with age.

One model, one which you apparently accept as true, is that the brain has the primary functions of coding, decoding, & storage of information as memory. An alternate model might be that the brain serves as an interface to an as yet not understood 'memory storage' capacity, i.e. a form of input/output device rather than the actual locus of data storage. Ideas of reincarnation, morphic resonance, the universe as holographic data, and the Buddhist conception of skandharas might be said to be consistent with something like the latter model.

... "Ambiguous subjective mental phenomena" is much more accurate than the term "whole track memories". Let's call them Amsubmepha, then. They aren't memories such as the brain produces so I prefer not confusing the two terms or referring to ambiguous subjective mental phenomena as something as accurate or concise as a memory. ...

And that is a reasonable approach to take. It does require acceptance of a specific type of memory model. It is a plausible model, but not the only possible one.


Mark A. Baker

 

[uniquemand]

Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. I had a PC on R3R who kept ending up in the same "basic" on every chain. It was OT III, period.

The ED was OT III, as was the CS, another auditor & me. Did this very perceptive person pick it up from us? I don't know.

Later that PC routed onto OTIII and came to me and said " Now I know what I was running on R3R and baffled about

So, yeah, I have had what I consider an honest-to-God prolonged experience with a lower level PC running OT III and no plausible explanation.

Plausible explanation ? I had another PC that got in his wife's OT III material and tried to run it in R3R with me. That came a cropper.

Back to other PC, who many years later ( also ) left the " church ". Best explaination given to me " Maybe I picked it up from you guys from hanging around with ya'll ".

Oh, same PC ( here is where you get to label me crazy ) on R3R I could damn near every time see the chain the PC was going to run before the PC started down it.

Was I putting it there and the PC picking it up or was the PC putting it there and I picking it up?

And that, by far, was NOT the only PC that ever happened with...just the most.

It's quite likely that many of us have assembled our views of the dim past from our movies and pop culture, whether science fiction, fantasy, religion, history, etc. Jung speculated about a preconscious world of symbols and archetypes, but even without that, we have a literary, video, audio and other recorded senses library that we acquire as we master language and the symbol systems that record that data. To the extent that we are all part of the same system (we couldn't communicate if we were not), we should all have access to common myths and memes. That we copy them is not in question. The questions seems to be whether the recorded event has or had reality at any point. My answer is NO. The relevant question is whether or not the event is pertinent in the story that we are telling ourselves and each other, rather than whether it was real.

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_blackmore_on_memes_and_temes.html

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... The questions seems to be whether the recorded event has or had reality at any point. My answer is NO. ...

Not an unreasonable approach but an answer that is ultimately the result of a personal belief.

... The relevant question is whether or not the event is pertinent in the story that we are telling ourselves and each other, rather than whether it was real. ...

And I'd agree the answer to that, for the most part, is no. Yet that doesn't mean that at least some such events may have a basis in truth.


Mark A. Baker

 

[paradox]

....

One model, one which you apparently accept as true, is that the brain has the primary functions of coding, decoding, & storage of information as memory. An alternate model might be that the brain serves as an interface to an as yet not understood 'memory storage' capacity, i.e. a form of input/output device rather than the actual locus of data storage. Ideas of reincarnation, morphic resonance, the universe as holographic data, and the Buddhist conception of skandharas might be said to be consistent with something like the latter model.

....

Mark A. Baker

 

[Caliwog]

One model, one which you apparently accept as true, is that the brain has the primary functions of coding, decoding, & storage of information as memory. An alternate model might be that the brain serves as an interface to an as yet not understood 'memory storage' capacity, i.e. a form of input/output device rather than the actual locus of data storage

A Scientologist I know once told me the mind is not the computer; rather, it is the keyboard and monitor.

An elegant way to put it, even if he was wrong.

 

[Rmack]

Mimsey,

Here's a great link The Forgotten Technology.

This is W. T. Wallington, a contractor, who is building stone henge all by himself - several of these blocks weigh tons+. You can see him moving garage-sized sheds, etc.

This is how the pyramids and other structures were built, IMHO. No spaceships, no "beams", no advanced races and aliens and technologies.

Very cool stuff on that site.

Guanoloco, did you see my post about this?

How do you link your own post? Oh well, here's a cut and paste;



'I listened to a lecture from a scientist that did a study on the Great Pyramid's interior stones. According to this scientist, several experts in geology confirmed her hypothesis that the stones were actually a sophisticated concrete mixture.

There are hieroglyphs that depict workers heading up and down a pyramid with basket backpacks. For a long time, Egyptologists assumed that was just a record of the mortar being brought up, and they just haven't found the images showing how they raised huge, heavy stones. But, what if that was it? All they would have needed was portable, reusable molds, and an army of workers bringing up the makings one basket at a time. Doable with bronze age tech, no aliens or magic required.

In support of this theory is a site in Florida called the Coral Castle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle

The guy who built these strange structures claimed to have discovered the secret of the Great Pyramid. He reportedly wouldn't allow anyone to watch him work, and took the 'secret' to his grave. Of course, the woo-woos gathered, starting rumors of levitation devices or magic powers. However, he left behind nothing but standard masonry equipment that is used in making concrete.

I suspect that he was telling the truth, and his secret was a very effective concrete formula similar to what was used to make the stones of the Pyramids. So effective that it takes an expert and microscopic examination to tell the difference."



Using the techniques you linked to would have been good enough for Stonehenge, but would have been extremely time consuming using them to raise the huge blocks of the pyramids up hundreds of feet.

However, It's certain that the pyramid builders didn't mold the blocks in place. They probably made them close to where they would be set, either on the level they were building, or the one just below, then after removing the molds to be used again, and fine tuning them to remove any mold marks or imperfections, they used the techniques from that site to move them to their final positions.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

It's quite likely that many of us have assembled our views of the dim past from our movies and pop culture, whether science fiction, fantasy, religion, history, etc. Jung speculated about a preconscious world of symbols and archetypes, but even without that, we have a literary, video, audio and other recorded senses library that we acquire as we master language and the symbol systems that record that data. To the extent that we are all part of the same system (we couldn't communicate if we were not), we should all have access to common myths and memes. That we copy them is not in question. The questions seems to be whether the recorded event has or had reality at any point. My answer is NO. The relevant question is whether or not the event is pertinent in the story that we are telling ourselves and each other, rather than whether it was real.

http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_blackmore_on_memes_and_temes.html

Funny. My first wedding was a recorded event by both me and her. Guess what ?
It was real. You say it lacks reality or had reality? Really?

I had thought better og you than that. Oh well.

The point I was making is that what I am sitting here thinking and about to say to another particular person is that person will say to me " Why don't we go do ( whatever )". And that particular " whatever " is not something that has been part of the conversation previously or that we have done together.

Doesn't happen with everybody but it happens with one particular person often enough that I certainly notice it.

Sort of like knowing I am seeing a PC pictures in seesion before they do and then later on the way to the examiner having the PC say to me in a normal conversational way " I know when you are looking at my pictures.. and it's OK ".

This is NOT something I'm at all attributing to 'scn tek'. Just I've met some people with some abilities that are more than hard to explain in any terms.

There are things that happened in the past they are real ( like most people do not wonder where the scars on their body came from ) ( Nor do women have any doubt which children are theirs or where they came from!) and there are things that will happen in the future that are real ( either I'll croak one day or be the immortal man, eh?) Body death really is a pretty darn certain event most of us are headed for one day.

 

[DagwoodGum]

A severely brain damaged person cannot recall memories anymore than a blinded person can see, no matter what OT level they are. What's that tell you?
People can spin whatever else they want into the mix but still can't get past this as the bottom line.

 

[Lure Rob & Hyde]

Slightly off thread in that it is information not from Scientology or auditing, and I haven't googled or checked it on Wikipedia but I remember once hearing that a young child of about seven who lived in India, kept telling his parents that he use to have a different name, remembered dying and said that his real family lived in another village.
The parents at first brushed it off as imagination, but eventually followed up the data and upon taking the child to the village he mentioned, it became obvious that the child had been telling the truth all the time. The previous mother and the child recognized each other immediately if I remember rightly.

You can also check out the reincarnation Story of Bridy Murphy that came out 1n 1952.Her account was actualy verified precisely as opposed Elwrong's "mission into time" where he failed miserably at proving anything as usual.
Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy

 

[RolandRB]

I never achieved The State of Clear or OT.
I did become a Class V Auditor.
Also, I was declared an SP.

However, I have some friend/s who are Indies
and every time we touch the subject of my disaffection
with the whole thing, sooner or later, I hear "but people
run into the same incidents on the whole track!" supposedly
with no "indoctrination" from Hubbard.

My question is - do they really?

I think it's a good topic.

Please, share/contribute/discuss.

I've been frozen in alcohol and glycol so many times that I dramatize it every evening.

I've been bapped so many times from a coffee grinder that I wear horn-rimmed glasses and have an automatic coffee machine.

I am afraid of birds because I think they will fly me up to a height and drop me on the rocks.

I keep reaching for my pirate's blaster in times of trouble.

I think racecars have names like one-one.

I'm back guys - WWP is going through a troubled spot so I am back here to troll you all!

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I've been frozen in alcohol and glycol so many times that I dramatize it every evening.

I've been bapped so many times from a coffee grinder that I wear horn-rimmed glasses and have an automatic coffee machine.

I am afraid of birds because I think they will fly me up to a height and drop me on the rocks.

I keep reaching for my pirate's blaster in times of trouble.

I think racecars have names like one-one.

I'm back guys - WWP is going through a troubled spot so I am back here to troll you all!

He's baaaaaack!!!!


Noice to see ya ... to see ya, noice.​

 

[Mick Wenlock]

He's baaaaaack!!!!


Noice to see ya ... to see ya, noice.​

Brucie!!

 

[programmer_guy]

You can also check out the reincarnation Story of Bridy Murphy that came out 1n 1952.Her account was actualy verified precisely as opposed Elwrong's "mission into time" where he failed miserably at proving anything as usual.
Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy

http://www.skepdic.com/bridey.html - bold emphasis mine

Newspapers sent reporters to Ireland to investigate. Was there a red-headed Bridey Murphy who lived in Ireland in the nineteenth century? No records were found that matched Tighe's claims for Bridey's birth, upbringing, marriage, or death. (One supporter of the story, Bill Barker, did find a record of a clerk named John M'Carthy working in Belfast between 1858-1862.)

One newspaper, however, the Chicago American, found Bridie Murphey Corkell in Wisconsin in the 20th century. She lived in the house across the street from where Virginia Tighe grew up. What Virginia reported while hypnotized were not memories of a previous life but memories from her early childhood. Whatever else the hypnotic state is, it is a state where one's fantasies are energetically displayed. Many people were impressed with the details of Tighe's hypnotic memories, but the details were not evidence of past life regression, reincarnation, or channeling. They were evidence of a vivid imagination, a confused memory, fraud, or a combination of the three.

As much as I would luv to believe in "whole track" I have to come to the conclusion that this is just a whole lot of bunk.
We are organic creatures that have come about as a result of Abiogenesis and evolution. And I know that this is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

You can also check out the reincarnation Story of Bridy Murphy that came out 1n 1952.Her account was actualy verified precisely as opposed Elwrong's "mission into time" where he failed miserably at proving anything as usual.
Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy

actually it wasn't "verified precisely" - you may want to check out the story.

 

[Caliwog]

I've been frozen in alcohol and glycol so many times that I dramatize it every evening.

In that case, you'd better watch out for Venusian locomotives.

 

[Ladybird]

There was a comic in todays paper that had a little kid sitting next to his grandpa saying: "Don't worry gramps, I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either".