Why are SO members so stupid? they can just leave!

[Flag-2005]

SO members so stupid? they can just leave!

This seems to be the big OUT-R for many people looking at our plight.

I only started to research and looking at anti-scio stuff three days ago, while having many years as staff in a Class V Org, then 3 years SO, and then three years hiding in a loss.

So I can only dwell on this issue but closing the gap in the deference in R would be helpful.

But I would summerize like this.

Scientology and especially the SO is not a place of peace or tranquility.

Many expect a religion to be that.

Scientology is a place of war and randomity and action and the largest danger to mankind is brought to light and fought.

Only a coward leaves the battlefield during a combat, leaving his friends, mum, dad or wife behind.

So being Declared is a nightmare for SO members. Their eternity has been taken and they are forced to desert their loved ones. And now their loved ones are living with a stigma due to their past relationship with you.

"why did you pull in an SP as a son?" is probably a common listing question given to SO members by other staff. If not in words then only in looks.

I wonder.....

Did the single fact of issuing so many SP declares bring down the show?

Would some of these top SO execs be outside if they were not Declared?

If David Mayo or others never left due to being thrown out would there be this current situation?

Perhaps David had planned Rons last days and even made them happen. You would have to cave your self in if thats true..

Declaring the Snr C/S I would have thought would end the show for him back then.

Maybe he did too..
He has been trying to do himself in for a long time...

 

[Zander]

It's a mental prison rather than a physical one, although there are some physical elements (security, cameras etc).

This must be the hardest type of prison to escape from I would have thought. Even when you've gone physically you're still there to some extent.

Zander

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Flag 2005.

Read up some material on Domestic Violence, and read the WHYs that prevent an abused person from leaving.

The methods that keep people on staff, on public and in the SO are the perfect model of the psychological aspects of domestic violence.

SO members in particular really believe they are the planet's frontline defences, and that this is the biggest game they can "play". I remember a couple of high-ranking CLO staff who were being investigated from something, and they were facing expulsion and DECLARE. The one who told me, was devastated. "What am I going to do? Go back to making pottery for the local markets?"

It's the same as battered house-wife syndrome--"If he does this when he loves me, what he might do if I ran away could be worse." The fear of loss of a roof over your head, and protection of any children is what compels many women to put up with this, and SO members are in a similar situation. Many of them are disconnected from their families and the only roof over their head they can see is the underside of the triple bunk above them. These people are not readily equipped to get a "normal" job, Many of them couldn't even sell movie tickets without a proper Hat Write-up.

 

[sandygirl]

Flag 2005

They are convinced that if they don't succeed in the SO they are DEGRADED BEINGS!!!!!!

It may sound stupid to someone in the outside, but it's a biggie inside. It directly affect your perception of your self worth. It also affects the perception of your loved ones.

How can the Christians control with the threat of an eternity in hell? Exact Same Principle.

Note one of the questions thrown at protesters -What about your eternity?

 

[poppy]

When I tried to leave the SO I was put under 24hr watch for 3 months. I had a security guard with me during the day while I did 'MEST' work and another security guard kept watch outside my dorm while I slept at night. This went on for three months until I changed my mind and decided to stay. After doing 'conditions' etc I was put back on post (demoted though!) and I blew afew months later when I was sure they weren't watching me anymore!

 

[Dulloldfart]

When I tried to leave the SO I was put under 24hr watch for 3 months. I had a security guard with me during the day while I did 'MEST' work and another security guard kept watch outside my dorm while I slept at night. This went on for three months until I changed my mind and decided to stay.

At least they don't add a bill for all the guard man-hours onto your freeloader debt. Let's see... 24hrs x 30 days x 3 months = 2,160 man-hours at 12 cents an hour = $259!

Paul

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

You've been away from CoS business too long Paul! - They'll carge $1200 an hour I'm sure.

 

[Zander]

Reading what others have said, I should have said it's a mental prison as well as a physical prison. I was in before the security and cameras had gone way over the top.

But I do remember getting a meter check at flag from a security guy who had a gun on his belt. It felt very very weird, like, what if I get a dirty needle, you gonna shoot me?

Zander

 

[sandygirl]

Quote from Poppy:

When I tried to leave the SO I was put under 24hr watch for 3 months. I had a security guard with me during the day while I did 'MEST' work and another security guard kept watch outside my dorm while I slept at night. This went on for three months until I changed my mind and decided to stay. After doing 'conditions' etc I was put back on post (demoted though!) and I blew afew months later when I was sure they weren't watching me anymore

I'm sorry you had to experience that Poppy.

This kindof crap makes me SICK!!!!!

 

[sallydannce]

Hi Flag-2005,

Why can't anyone at any level of scientology just get up and leave? What's holding them back?

Phobias!

Members are indoctrinated to be phobic about leaving. They simply cannot imagine life without scientology. I couldn't. Even when the org is a madhouse, even when things are so utterly insane for the person, the thought of abandoning the group is too painful. Rational thinking is obliterated by the thought-stopping phobias which are instilled into scientologists very early in the game. (KSW1)

These phobias are instilled with various LRH refs & re-enforced member-to-member. Here are just a few:

From Clear to Eternity - don't waste this brief breath in eternity.

KSW 1 has many but this one will hold a person steadfast to scientology quite nicely: "The whole agonised future of this planet, every man, woman & child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depends on what you do here and now with and in scientology." Think about that one! If you leave the group you are somehow responsible for the agony of everyone. Holy shit, that is a HEAVY indoctrination tool!!!!

There are actually hundreds of this phobic indoctrinations when I stepped back & looked. Hubbard knew how to keep people where he wanted them. And for anyone that breaks through those invisible chains they are labelled "enemy of the group".

Ever heard an EO or anyone say to someone who is in doubt about doing scientology "just think about your eternity before you go throwing it all away." This type of comment kicks the phobia back into play.

People can't leave the SO, the local org, the local mission, scientology, even when it's apparent that things are totally off-the-wall because they are too damn terrified to do so. It takes guts and a chink in the heavy indoctrination to find the door! For me, it has been one of the major invisible mind controlling chains I have had to deal with. It is very real to me that people cannot just walk away from scientology. They have the heavy weight of irrational phobias to deal with.

For further info on cult phobic mind control there is data on Steve Hassan's web site:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/books/rtb2.htm

 

[paradox]

Reading what others have said, I should have said it's a mental prison as well as a physical prison. I was in before the security and cameras had gone way over the top.

But I do remember getting a meter check at flag from a security guy who had a gun on his belt. It felt very very weird, like, what if I get a dirty needle, you gonna shoot me?

Zander

Impressive, Zander. Sounds like they may have reissued/updated their one workable one-shot clear, magic bullet process, and he was fully prepared to assist with stable exteriorization.

 

[Fancy]

I can tell you from my childhood abuse that feeling hardly ever goes away. Sometimes it becomes worse and then one becomes trapped even if one is out of it.

Barb

Flag 2005.

Read up some material on Domestic Violence, and read the WHYs that prevent an abused person from leaving.

The methods that keep people on staff, on public and in the SO are the perfect model of the psychological aspects of domestic violence.

SO members in particular really believe they are the planet's frontline defences, and that this is the biggest game they can "play". I remember a couple of high-ranking CLO staff who were being investigated from something, and they were facing expulsion and DECLARE. The one who told me, was devastated. "What am I going to do? Go back to making pottery for the local markets?"

It's the same as battered house-wife syndrome--"If he does this when he loves me, what he might do if I ran away could be worse." The fear of loss of a roof over your head, and protection of any children is what compels many women to put up with this, and SO members are in a similar situation. Many of them are disconnected from their families and the only roof over their head they can see is the underside of the triple bunk above them. These people are not readily equipped to get a "normal" job, Many of them couldn't even sell movie tickets without a proper Hat Write-up.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Hi Flag-2005,

Why can't anyone at any level of scientology just get up and leave? What's holding them back?

Phobias!

Members are indoctrinated to be phobic about leaving. They simply cannot imagine life without scientology. I couldn't. Even when the org is a madhouse, even when things are so utterly insane for the person, the thought of abandoning the group is too painful. Rational thinking is obliterated by the thought-stopping phobias which are instilled into scientologists very early in the game. (KSW1)

These phobias are instilled with various LRH refs & re-enforced member-to-member. Here are just a few:

From Clear to Eternity - don't waste this brief breath in eternity.

KSW 1 has many but this one will hold a person steadfast to scientology quite nicely: "The whole agonised future of this planet, every man, woman & child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depends on what you do here and now with and in scientology." Think about that one! If you leave the group you are somehow responsible for the agony of everyone. Holy shit, that is a HEAVY indoctrination tool!!!!

There are actually hundreds of this phobic indoctrinations when I stepped back & looked. Hubbard knew how to keep people where he wanted them. And for anyone that breaks through those invisible chains they are labelled "enemy of the group".

Ever heard an EO or anyone say to someone who is in doubt about doing scientology "just think about your eternity before you go throwing it all away." This type of comment kicks the phobia back into play.

People can't leave the SO, the local org, the local mission, scientology, even when it's apparent that things are totally off-the-wall because they are too damn terrified to do so. It takes guts and a chink in the heavy indoctrination to find the door! For me, it has been one of the major invisible mind controlling chains I have had to deal with. It is very real to me that people cannot just walk away from scientology. They have the heavy weight of irrational phobias to deal with.

For further info on cult phobic mind control there is data on Steve Hassan's web site:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/books/rtb2.htm

Interesting. Also, most of their recruits are young people who haven't a lot of prior experience of the outer world - this is quickly apparent when you query the price of services etc.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Impressive, Zander. Sounds like they may have reissued/updated their one workable one-shot clear, magic bullet process, and he was fully prepared to assist with stable exteriorization.

LOL Sounds like the infamous R2-45.

 

[XGO]

Another reason SO staff decide not to leave is MONEY. How can you buy an airticket (or bus ticket for that matter), when you have no coin? That was one of my worries when I blew.
I read somewhere on this site that SO members have left.
In one of the video/Youtube postings, the Ex SO member said SO staff have declined to about 4500 (was about 5500 when he joined... sorry I am not clear about the details, dates/time period).
Has anyone done a study on SO staff levels, and documented it? That would be an interesting graph to see.
Hey DM, if you improved the conditions for the staff, you would probably retain those people who are "on the fence." Think about it.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

This is something my husband and I have talked about many times. He's repeatedly told me that given certain situations we've heard about in the SO, that he'd just leave and not put up with it. Now, coming from John, I believe this. But let's look at others...

What if the person has family in CofS and maybe even in the SO with him or her? They are afraid of losing them, could get expelled then the family members would not be allowed to associate with them.

Plus there're all these other factors. Like was said earlier, one is told one would be a DB, one is told one won't be helping society, etc. Also if the person has nowhere to go or believes that they don't...

Some people really can get intimidated. I was at an IAS event where they had one guy so cowed, he was asking for permission to go to the restroom and do you think the IAS reg said "oh, dude, you don't have to ask me that..." No. She GRANTED the permission. He gave her that power over him but he probably did not see any other way to deal with the situation.

We were watching "most evil" cult leaders episode on Investigative Discovery channel last night. They had Manson's number 1 lady on there, Catherine Share. And she was talking about how she couldn't leave and this guy Clem was told by Manson to tell her what would happen if she did. My comment to John was "If it was me and I wanted to leave (and as soon as that asshole started talking about armageddon and race wars, I'd have been so out of there.") the next time the girls were sent to dumpster dive at Safeway or anyplace like that, I'd go in the store and they'd NEVER see me again."

But it's not the same for everybody. We all have a different psychological make up.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

This is something my husband and I have talked about many times. He's repeatedly told me that given certain situations we've heard about in the SO, that he'd just leave and not put up with it. Now, coming from John, I believe this. But let's look at others...

What if the person has family in CofS and maybe even in the SO with him or her? They are afraid of losing them, could get expelled then the family members would not be allowed to associate with them.

Plus there're all these other factors. Like was said earlier, one is told one would be a DB, one is told one won't be helping society, etc. Also if the person has nowhere to go or believes that they don't...

Some people really can get intimidated. I was at an IAS event where they had one guy so cowed, he was asking for permission to go to the restroom and do you think the IAS reg said "oh, dude, you don't have to ask me that..." No. She GRANTED the permission. He gave her that power over him but he probably did not see any other way to deal with the situation.

We were watching "most evil" cult leaders episode on Investigative Discovery channel last night. They had Manson's number 1 lady on there, Catherine Share. And she was talking about how she couldn't leave and this guy Clem was told by Manson to tell her what would happen if she did. My comment to John was "If it was me and I wanted to leave (and as soon as that asshole started talking about armageddon and race wars, I'd have been so out of there.") the next time the girls were sent to dumpster dive at Safeway or anyplace like that, I'd go in the store and they'd NEVER see me again."

But it's not the same for everybody. We all have a different psychological make up.

That's right, and also the SO makes it as hard as it can for people to leave, as Pilot pointed out once.

 

[Zander]

Hi Flag-2005,

Why can't anyone at any level of scientology just get up and leave? What's holding them back?

Phobias!

Members are indoctrinated to be phobic about leaving. They simply cannot imagine life without scientology. I couldn't. Even when the org is a madhouse, even when things are so utterly insane for the person, the thought of abandoning the group is too painful. Rational thinking is obliterated by the thought-stopping phobias which are instilled into scientologists very early in the game. (KSW1)

These phobias are instilled with various LRH refs & re-enforced member-to-member. Here are just a few:

From Clear to Eternity - don't waste this brief breath in eternity.

KSW 1 has many but this one will hold a person steadfast to scientology quite nicely: "The whole agonised future of this planet, every man, woman & child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depends on what you do here and now with and in scientology." Think about that one! If you leave the group you are somehow responsible for the agony of everyone. Holy shit, that is a HEAVY indoctrination tool!!!!

There are actually hundreds of this phobic indoctrinations when I stepped back & looked. Hubbard knew how to keep people where he wanted them. And for anyone that breaks through those invisible chains they are labelled "enemy of the group".

Ever heard an EO or anyone say to someone who is in doubt about doing scientology "just think about your eternity before you go throwing it all away." This type of comment kicks the phobia back into play.

People can't leave the SO, the local org, the local mission, scientology, even when it's apparent that things are totally off-the-wall because they are too damn terrified to do so. It takes guts and a chink in the heavy indoctrination to find the door! For me, it has been one of the major invisible mind controlling chains I have had to deal with. It is very real to me that people cannot just walk away from scientology. They have the heavy weight of irrational phobias to deal with.

For further info on cult phobic mind control there is data on Steve Hassan's web site:

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/books/rtb2.htm

That is so true sallydannce. I honestly thought I was going to die by not being onlines and I never wanted to give up that chance of 'going free'. Even after being off-lines for a long time I still thought just maybe I would go back, and let's not close any doors.

And then the threat of declare is a control mechanism to get people towing the line. But you just lose all individuality, freedom of thought and integrity that way.

Zander

 

[Zander]

Impressive, Zander. Sounds like they may have reissued/updated their one workable one-shot clear, magic bullet process, and he was fully prepared to assist with stable exteriorization.

Interesting one

I must admit I was a bit nervous of him sitting there with that gun. And I think I really did imagine he might use it!

Zander

 

[sandygirl]

Why in God's name is a "church" having their staff armed????

How can this organization justify this crap???

Any trolls reading these threads???? How can you support this stuff????:confused2: :confused2: