Why Church Members Keep Lying

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Unfortunately, the article doesn't answer the question. Why do church members keep lying?

Yes there are horrible, ongoing abuses -- but why do all church members keep lying? That would be a good article, but I don't think it will ever be written by that crowd.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Unfortunately, the article doesn't answer the question. Why do church members keep lying?

Yes there are horrible, ongoing abuses -- but why do all church members keep lying? That would be a good article, but I don't think it will ever be written by that crowd.


Did you read the whole write-up? It does answer that question further down.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
I gotta say, this article really pissed me off. Not the person who wrote it so much as those in the Independant field who believe in this technology so much but don't have their Code of Honor, Personal Integrity, and courage that the tech tells them they must apply to keep Scientology Working.

I'd just as soon see the whole of Scientology disappear from the earth.

But those like Marty and Mike especially going on and on about the glory of LRH and the tech nad they won't stand up to the SP Dave.

They won't put their own integrity above their own life.

They don't have the Courage to take what they know and use it to bring the madness to an end.

Instead they play childish games and pretend to be so believing in the tech but they least apply it.

Instead they make jokes and play Spy vs Spy and all manner of foolishness while hundreds of people are being treated as less than salves.

They have no integrity.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Did you read the whole write-up? It does answer that question further down.
Still don't get it. I understand his justification for Int. Base people not speaking up, I understand DM is full of threats, but I don't see him answering the question, "Why do church members keep lying?"

They lie about their Stress Tests and their Personality Tests. They lie about their intentions. They lie about their results. They lie about their "expansion". They lie about most things and I don't see that being answered -- Why?

Keeping silent and not reporting the horrible abuses may be considered lying, but why all the other lies? Why do church members outside of Int. Base keep lying?

I think it's worthy of an exposé.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
It begins with accepting lies as truth, it progresses to lying to yourself, it culminates in lying to others. Simple, really. :wink2:
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
Interesting article, especially the part describing how Miscavige treats his staff. I wish I could meet him face-to-face. I am 6'6" and athletic (I practice Yoga).

You'd have to be careful; he could probably punch the hell out of your kneecaps.

LTG
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
arent Scns just lying to comply with Rons legacy to to save the universe,

and Ron en-thrusted prodigal son Dave to take The Helm of spiritual salvation in this sector, and you cant be critical of Rons judgement after he mapped out xenus disastrous evil.
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
I gotta say, this article really pissed me off. Not the person who wrote it so much as those in the Independant field who believe in this technology so much but don't have their Code of Honor, Personal Integrity, and courage that the tech tells them they must apply to keep Scientology Working.

I'd just as soon see the whole of Scientology disappear from the earth.

But those like Marty and Mike especially going on and on about the glory of LRH and the tech nad they won't stand up to the SP Dave.

They won't put their own integrity above their own life.

They don't have the Courage to take what they know and use it to bring the madness to an end.

Instead they play childish games and pretend to be so believing in the tech but they least apply it.

Instead they make jokes and play Spy vs Spy and all manner of foolishness while hundreds of people are being treated as less than salves.

They have no integrity.

And this is so true, great post Freethinker.

James
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Why Scientologists Keep Lying

Why do Scientologists keep lying? Its in the L Ron Hubbard scripture:

5856466913_c27830f2e6.jpg

. . . as an aside, is a lie still a lie if the person believes they are speaking the truth? For all its claims to creating greater insight and its stricture to "look, don't listen", it seems to me that Scientologists have a weaker general understanding of their religion than those who have never been in. I'm not talking here about people who have left the cult, but just generally speaking.

I guess another contributing factor as to why Scientologists lie is that to do so is for the "greater good", especially when talking to us "aberrated" wogs. It is, after all, for our own good that we cease questioning, erase our doubts and try it out for ourselves. We too could learn the infinite-logic as it relates to dispensing truth and the value it has in clearing the planet of Xenu's body thetans.

Also, Scientology is itself born of a lie. As Tommy Davis himself, in a rare slip, said: "Of course, if it's true that Mr. Hubbard was never injured during the war, then he never did heal himself using Dianetics principles, then Dianetics is based on a lie, and then Scientology is based on a lie." As I've learned myself (the hard way, of course) if you tell one lie then very often you have to tell another, and another . . .
 

Veda

Sponsor
For starters, whatever Scientology is, it's not a religion. Calling it a religion eliminates any chance that Scientology will change. Why should it? Its "religion angle" and "religious cloaking" have succeeded - proof that deception works, so why change?


"This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillions years," L. Ron Hubbard, 1952

In Scientology, "theta" means life force, elan vital, and harmonious, serene, and affirming and validating of Scientology, and true; and entheta means anti-life, and turbulent, upsetting, and critical and invalidating of Scientology, and false.

And Scientology is "Mankind's only hope."

L. Ron Hubbard, on inventing facts, from an April 1955 'HCOB':

"A datum is an invention which has become agreed upon and solidified... When it is thoroughly agreed upon it becomes, then, a truth.

"The word 'lie' is simply 'an invention with a bad connotation'... Thus society frowns upon the invention of facts."


And this from the loose-lipped 1952 'PDC' lectures, "It's a trap not being able to prevaricate."

And then there's the old reliable, 'TR-L', the Training Routine for Lying from the 1960s.

And, of course, there's the first half of the Fair Game Law, "Trick and lie to.", also from 1960s.

And then there's Scientology's multi-layered PR Tech of the early 1970s, which, per the pattern, dishonestly announces its own honesty while, further in, instructs on how to manipulate, and further in still, instructs on how to mislead and lie.

These things are as much a part of Scientology as the "auditing comm cycle," and discharging tension by finding "earlier similars" (wording is Korzybski's), and these ingredients, along with others, combine - per the founder's design - making Scientology.

In Scientology, lying is only supposed to flow downward, with Hubbard free to lie to Scientologists, but Scientologists expected to comply, and to open their minds completely to inspection.

It shouldn't be surprising that a 'Good Scientologist' is willing to lie to those he sees as below him: the "DBs," "SPs," and the "Wogs."

It's quite a system: an 'applied philosophy' that make liars out of good people, who - themselves - have been lied to.

The first step to unraveling this mess is to describe it.


And "DM bad," "LRH good" is *not* describing it.
 

Ulduz

Patron with Honors
Ya, I did open my mind to inspections meaning that I had to describe all my sexual encounters in wrting (forgot how this shit is called). The person who read my "confessions" said I should be disciplined on 2D. "What about you?", I asked. "I commited overt acts on 1D", he said. I did not understand what he meant by that until somebody told me that he tried to commit suicide. Later the CoS tried to use my confessions against me when I was going against them. But no one cares about sexual indiscretions unless they include homosexual act, so their attempts failed. Travolta, on the other hand, had sex with the men, so this material is used to keep him in CoS -- I read an article in NewsWeek about this.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Why they lie?

1. They keep working for free.
2. They have donated more money than they have and they have to be right.
3. They are forced to lie - can't get any production without lies.
4. They are lieing to themselves about the Bridge to Total Spiritual Freedom
5. They have family "in" and don't want to lose them.
6. They are spriritually, emotionally and mentally broken.
7. They are lied to and Hubbard gives them permission to lie - after all, he is SOURCE.
8. They are no longer to think for themselves, have no self-determinism and no courage to stand up for the truth.
9. They are really sick people and need help. They are unable to tell the difference between being moral and truthful and lieing for COB "command intention".

But I don't think they are happy and certainly are not prospering and flourishing.

Poor souls!:bigcry:
 
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