Why do people think it is necessary to be tolerant of religion?

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

ok macho isn't the name of the game, I'm glad of that at least. I told you I really didn't see the importance of reply above poo. It didn't register. Underhanded and deceitful are not part of my repertoire either. I really do apologise now I know how important it is. Do you despise weakness btw? I know many people do; I just don't agree with them.

ps I have always been resistant to suggestions, of any and every kind.

 

[lotus]

Probably, I haven't lived this long without my offbeat humour, and you are seeing I am tackling him point by point without blowing my stack. I just don't understand why his approach has changed so much tonight, and so suddenly. I really thought he liked me.

The regular posters on this board are usually long time posters. Some even knew some members years and decades ago in the cult..so, sometimes it gets like a big family.

We all have our temper and people get use to it!
There might happen misunderstanding on message boards..but we put our ego aside and take a fresh new start when things have gone wrong. Usually people take those situation with humour..humour is a trademark of the board, Even though there are many serious topics and threads..people like to get their jeans a little loose and have fun too , here and there. People are usually straight shooters, but in no way they are bad people..Straty is never wearing white gloves, may appear grumpy ..but he is a sweet..

AS soon as you get used to people and they get used to you..then, things are going seamlessly since ESMBers are just the best people you can find on a message board that is almost not moderated. We have been properly raised by Emma momma to moderate ourselve like big boys and big girls..

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

Lotus, first thank you very much, second, this message tells me you are someone I will like, I like the way you think; third, as I said to Trubs, I have been around, I know the importance of humour, rolling with it when it gets a bit rough etc., I already have discerned tonight is just a spat, (though when strat punches he really does) I was astonished initially by how warmly I was welcomed, including by strat himself, so tonight's metamorphosis is not entirely unexpected, a swing was always likely;

The regular posters on this board are usually long time poster..some even knew some members years and decades ago in the cult..so, sometimes it gets like a big family.

We all have our temper and people get use to it!
There might happens misunderstanding on message boards..but we put our ego aside and take a fresh new start when things have gone wrong. Usually people take those situation with humour..humour is a trademark of the board, Eventhough there are many serious topics and threads..people like to get their jeans a little loose and have fun too , here and there. People are usually straight shooters, but in no was bad people..Straty is never wearing white gloves ..but he is a sweet..

AS soon as you get used to people and they get used to you..then, things are going seamlessly since ESMBers are just the best people you can find on a message board that is almost not moderated. We have been properly raised by Emma momma to moderate ourselve like big boys and big girls..

but still, I was totally unprepared for tonight's exchanges. Trubs says she thinks Strat really does like me just as he seemed before. Of course I hope he does. I still think overreaction is an accurate term but otherwise I don't hold grudges either, I, too get moods, strong, intense, sometimes horrible; but they pass quickly. In other words I get the impression we are all similar in our mentalities and probably in our styles too. As for Emma, though I haven't seen her since my first day, it was immediately obvious she is utterly lovely, as well as having her head well screwed on. I wrote a little note to her about my own experience of managing a largish web forum and everything it taught me; just to let her know I know about doing the chores etc.

 

[lotus]

People are like they are..and even it may seems complicate to adapt when first coming on a message board..soon , a little at the time, people get to know each other, or at least, how they communicate and it becomes easier.



I know it can appear to be a rude place at first..there are some reasons for that..but when one persists, it soon appears to be a very cool place.

Again, the only hint I know of is that regular posters here, in majority, don't take themselve too seriously ..otherwise they would have left!
The topic that led Emma to create this board is very serious..but to keep coming here, years long, people have to find also humour, litghtness and fun...
Also, member take their time to seize newbies..we have had numerous fuc..ers on the board , some come to lecture us, other to paternalize, others come to enlight, other to educate us, other to bring truth to us...see...???? So let people take time to better know you too..it doesn't happens in just a few days!

 

[strativarius]

ok macho isn't the name of the game, I'm glad of that at least. I told you I really didn't see the importance of reply above poo. It didn't register. Underhanded and deceitful are not part of my repertoire either. I really do apologise now I know how important it is. Do you despise weakness btw? I know many people do; I just don't agree with them.

No.

 

[ThetanExterior]

um do you mean strong wrestling is the norm here? is he inviting me to show my muscles? if so, fair enough, except for the crippled bit, and is weakness despised here or is it all an act for effect or to provoke me?

Strati once said that a post I made was the most stupid thing he'd ever read on this message board.

I think I deserve a prize for that.

 

[strativarius]

Strati once said that a post I made was the most stupid thing he'd ever read on this message board.

I think I deserve a prize for that.

Really? Did I? I certainly don't remember doing that although I'm not doubting you TE. All I can say is I must have been especially grumpy that day.

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks for the encouragement Sheila, and I will take you up on it; only, as I am still very new here, indulge me by telling me the best forum category to go for. Subject of first discussion, alike this one seemed to be at first, 'religions and cults, overlaps and differences'. unless you can improve on that before we start?

Hiya Chris! Yeh, unless you click a thank you or like or something, I don't always see your posts. I wasn't even online yesterday, had an emergency come up at work.

Sounds like you might have stepped on some toes. It happens; it takes a while to get used to discussions on forums, but generally speaking, try to stay away from ad homs (criticize the post, not the person) and try to stay factual wherever possible and post links to the facts you have. Otherwise, it's just a learning experience and we've all made our blunders so don't worry too much about it. Going to look at your other threads now.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Well...not all religions are created equal. I don't know the hair split between religion and cult but Scientology is a completely pathological virus that is like a plague. It exists only to enrich Ron with sex, power, money and accolades and this has now been usurped by Miscavige. The same regarding Islam with Mohamet.

I personally don't care what a person ascribes to or follows until it interferes with others and their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Both Islam and Scientology violate that and based upon that I'm fine with both being legally abolished and removed. The "freedom of religion" clause does not exist to endorse criminal enterprises that are seditious. Any religion that is criminal loses its rights just like any person.

The same for businesses, governments and whatever else.

This is certainly a charge long leveled and, if you'll pardon my Latin, frequently with Tone 40 Intention.


It strikes me as likely Ron had days when aught save his own power and greed had any presence in his personal space.


OTOH...


There is an OH.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

This is certainly a charge long leveled and, if you'll pardon my Latin, frequently with Tone 40 Intention.


It strikes me as likely Ron had days when aught save his own power and greed had any presence in his personal space.


OTOH...


There is an OH.

Sory CP, tone 40 has to be an in thing, a reference to something; but I am a mere newbie, so please just tell me, and if otoh means anything, again, please let me know.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

Well...not all religions are created equal. I don't know the hair split between religion and cult but Scientology is a completely pathological virus that is like a plague. It exists only to enrich Ron with sex, power, money and accolades and this has now been usurped by Miscavige. The same regarding Islam with Mohamet.

I personally don't care what a person ascribes to or follows until it interferes with others and their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Both Islam and Scientology violate that and based upon that I'm fine with both being legally abolished and removed. The "freedom of religion" clause does not exist to endorse criminal enterprises that are seditious. Any religion that is criminal loses its rights just like any person.

The same for businesses, governments and whatever else.

The US constitution, the most sacred document, I gather, for every true American. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These absolutes to my mind grew in a soil that all European thought before it had grown in, the soil whose greatest fertiliser was Christianity and its ideals. Now, if that is true, (as up for debate as everything, of course; but I do think it is true) if a part of the package that is Christianity should clash with the ideals that the USA was founded on; are we in 'an interesting situation'? Or is it as simple as 'Our Constitution out trumps everything else?' if so, on that what basis?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Yes, Chris, "Tone 40" is an "in thing".

And welcome!!!!

I'm a long time regular who has just suffered some serious downtime receiving malpractice from the nerds at UCSF Hospital. I managed to get over to the VA Hospital at Fort Miley so I'm better than when I got out of UCSF but still worse than when I went in.

Just glancing at a few of your posts I note you are, as am I, a professing christian of the protestant tradition. This might make for some interesting conversation.

"otoh"

means "on the other hand"

and I just wanted to place a little bookmarker by GL's acerbic and vitriolic assessment of Hubbard's work that there is an "oh" (other hand)

 

[guanoloco]

The US constitution, the most sacred document, I gather, for every true American. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These absolutes to my mind grew in a soil that all European thought before it had grown in, the soil whose greatest fertiliser was Christianity and its ideals. Now, if that is true, (as up for debate as everything, of course; but I do think it is true) if a part of the package that is Christianity should clash with the ideals that the USA was founded on; are we in 'an interesting situation'? Or is it as simple as 'Our Constitution out trumps everything else?' if so, on that what basis?

Well...I don't fully understand the question but, if I were to guess, it would probably be a "both" answer as opposed to either/or.

For one, many of the FF of the U.S. were Christians and many were deists...so there's a mix. There's zero doubt that the Western Civilization roots of the Greek/Roman bent was massively influential as well as the trek out of feudalism that Europe walked.

As far as Caesar goes, though, the Constitution is the Law of the land.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

Good to meet you CP, I am sure we'll be saying lots of interesting things to each other and enjoying every bit. USCF, unknown to me, as a Londoner, but hospitals messing patients up is a theme dear to my heart. There is quite a lot about me on various beards already; but my reason for joining here is my long lost Father was a founder member of Dianetics, then Scientology, served a long time, achieved high rank etc---died in 1989, ---quite a number of people here have helped me learn about him and any other family I may have, and in only a few days. People here are mostly very kind, unexpected; but delightful. Also, my life history, while unlike all the rest of yours, is as colourful and strange as anyone could wish. I get the impression we are going to like being together, you lot and I. Oh yes, Latin, ok, and tone 40, I don't see the connection.

Caesar adsum iam forte, Pompey adorat, Caesar sic in omnibus, Pompey inisat.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

Well...I don't fully understand the question but, if I were to guess, it would probably be a "both" answer as opposed to either/or.

For one, many of the FF of the U.S. were Christians and many were deists...so there's a mix. There's zero doubt that the Western Civilization roots of the Greek/Roman bent was massively influential as well as the trek out of feudalism that Europe walked.

As far as Caesar goes, though, the Constitution is the Law of the land.

Quite so, but the land is your land, my land is elsewhere; while debates about eg ethics rage everywhere and everyone gets embroiled willy nilly. What am I asking? You said you tolerate anyone's ideas as long as they don't tread on anyone rights as enshrined in the opening of your constitution, which is fine wherever you have legal authority. Maybe mere logic chopping, but maybe making a point we all should heed? I don't know. Obviously 'both' is more likely to make sense than either/or, but, as we all know, we can't assume people will always be sane or wise. Again, maybe making too much of it; but I still think it merits a bit of thought.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The RCC still goes long on the Latin language; "Tone 40" is Scn nomenclature for a high spiritual state; their Latin and thus appropriate for me ask pardon and this is doubled because "if you will pardon my Latin" is a figure of speech often used to restore decorum and civility after a good technicolor riff of scatological invective.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

The RCC still goes long on the Latin language; "Tone 40" is Scn nomenclature for a high spiritual state; their Latin and thus appropriate for me ask pardon and this is doubled because "if you will pardon my Latin" is a figure of speech often used to restore decorum and civility after a good technicolor riff of scatological invective.

Ah, perfectly cinematic, Mark Antony to Octavian, 'if you will pardon' etc, at least, I think that is what you are indicating?

 

[Bill]

The US constitution, the most sacred document, I gather, for every true American. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These absolutes to my mind grew in a soil that all European thought before it had grown in, the soil whose greatest fertiliser was Christianity and its ideals. Now, if that is true, (as up for debate as everything, of course; but I do think it is true) if a part of the package that is Christianity should clash with the ideals that the USA was founded on; are we in 'an interesting situation'? Or is it as simple as 'Our Constitution out trumps everything else?' if so, on that what basis?

You might, if you are interested, study some about the U.S. Constitution. It is fascinating. The Constitution was incredibly radical for its time. As for its relation to Christianity: yes and no. The founders were Christians for the most part but they where very wary of enforced religion, which is what many colonists were escaping from, back in Europe. One of the essential foundations of the Constitution was both freedom of religion AND freedom from religion. It would never have been ratified by the states without those guarantees.

As for "our Constitution trumps everything else" that is literally true within the borders of the U.S., nothing and no one is above the Constitution.

 

[CHRISTOPHER FAIRNINGTON]

You might, if you are interested, study some about the U.S. Constitution. It is fascinating. The Constitution was incredibly radical for its time. As for its relation to Christianity: yes and no. The founders were Christians for the most part but they where very wary of enforced religion, which is what many colonists were escaping from, back in Europe. One of the essential foundations of the Constitution was both freedom of religion AND freedom from religion. It would never have been ratified by the states without those guarantees.

As for "our Constitution trumps everything else" that is literally true within the borders of the U.S., nothing and no one is above the Constitution.

Yes Bill, thank you. I do know a bit about those times and why the bill of rights developed. Did you know it has been claimed that the Constitution of the USA is modelled on the constitution of thee Freemasons? Remember, in the 18th century, everyone who was anyone was a mason. Arguments for and against our state church are still alive here. Most people would accept the Anglican church is far better in practice than in theory, and the same is true of our House of Lords. There are lots of reasons why, but our freedoms, which we gained slowly over many centuries, often have no great theoretical basis, our entire unwritten constitution is a shambling sprawl, but nonetheless a very sound base in which we live with far more freedom and good citizenship than foreigners imagine is possible until they get to know our strange approach to everything. In fact one writer said bluntly 'the englishman is mad; but with a purpose', which may or may not be true, but appears to be how we are perceived by some others. I am also aware of the influence on Tom Paine of his personal atheism and his parent's quakerism. I think I have mentioned elsewhere ideas have always been my chief interest. About your last line, the amount of strong challenges to your constitution I have seen debated and fought in recent years within the States has been a wonder, not in a good sense, but simply alarming.

 

[phenomanon]

The RCC still goes long on the Latin language; "Tone 40" is Scn nomenclature for a high spiritual state; their Latin and thus appropriate for me ask pardon and this is doubled because "if you will pardon my Latin" is a figure of speech often used to restore decorum and civility after a good technicolor riff of scatological invective.

O wow. I thought "Tone 40" meant delivering a communication as a "command", projecting such intention that the recipient of that communication has no choice or thought but to comply.