Hatshepsut
Crusader
Yep, restimulate in order to destimulate is the philosophy. $$$$$$$$$$
Why doesn't OT3 use the Valence Tech?
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Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Also a significant aspect of many medically sanctioned psychological therapies. They even have been known to use "confronting on a gradient".
Mark A. Baker
Hatshepsut
Crusader
As long as you end up better off for having done it...that would have to be the criteria.
OT8-still-in
Patron
The Good Old Days (pre-publication of OTIII)
I reserve my opinion of the historical accuracy of OT III.
I do know this - long, long before the "internet", I was doing the preliminary section of OT III (before you hear "the story"). I became stuck on the EM-25 drill. Almost the same thing happened to me during OT VIII (insofar as becoming stuck on EM-25).
Since you are obligated to report any physical illness to the course supervisor while on the OT III course, I finally "fessed-up" to the course sup that I was suffering from pneumonia.......I just plain could not breath anymore.
I wanted to check into a hospital.
How are you supposed to do EM-25 when you can barely suck in enough oxygen? All your intention/attention is devoted to just making your LUNGS work. If you have never suffered from pneumonia, you just can't know what it's like.
The course sup instead personally took over my drilling, gave me an easy pass that I frankly did not deserve, and then routed me over to the next section of OT III.
After reading the first few pages of OT III, the "pneumonia" blew instantly.
I was starting to make excited comments out loud but the course sup cut my comm and told me to shut up (literally) and to just continue.
Based on this incident, long before illicit publication of OT III, what am I supposed to think about OT III? NOTs sure seems a better way to handle this basic phenomena, but I do not regret having run OT III & New OT IV (the OT Drug RD) as written.
Has anyone else exprienced this?
BTW - the whole OT III thing is far junior to actual OT. OT III is just a PRE OT level.
The last time I was in Hawaii (much against my will) I spent a couple days just trying to regain my rest. Only family and social pressures made me return there.
I have been to Hawaii a few times - once unaware of OT III, twice AWARE of it.
One time, right after visiting Hawaii with me, a certain family member's eye bulged almost out of its socket, handled only by steroid injections (but this person never fully recovered).
Me? I would just run OT III as is, and then do NOTs. Don't worry about its factuality.
There is something there to run.
Sincere regards,
OT8-still-in
I reserve my opinion of the historical accuracy of OT III.
I do know this - long, long before the "internet", I was doing the preliminary section of OT III (before you hear "the story"). I became stuck on the EM-25 drill. Almost the same thing happened to me during OT VIII (insofar as becoming stuck on EM-25).
Since you are obligated to report any physical illness to the course supervisor while on the OT III course, I finally "fessed-up" to the course sup that I was suffering from pneumonia.......I just plain could not breath anymore.
I wanted to check into a hospital.
How are you supposed to do EM-25 when you can barely suck in enough oxygen? All your intention/attention is devoted to just making your LUNGS work. If you have never suffered from pneumonia, you just can't know what it's like.
The course sup instead personally took over my drilling, gave me an easy pass that I frankly did not deserve, and then routed me over to the next section of OT III.
After reading the first few pages of OT III, the "pneumonia" blew instantly.
I was starting to make excited comments out loud but the course sup cut my comm and told me to shut up (literally) and to just continue.
Based on this incident, long before illicit publication of OT III, what am I supposed to think about OT III? NOTs sure seems a better way to handle this basic phenomena, but I do not regret having run OT III & New OT IV (the OT Drug RD) as written.
Has anyone else exprienced this?
BTW - the whole OT III thing is far junior to actual OT. OT III is just a PRE OT level.
The last time I was in Hawaii (much against my will) I spent a couple days just trying to regain my rest. Only family and social pressures made me return there.
I have been to Hawaii a few times - once unaware of OT III, twice AWARE of it.
One time, right after visiting Hawaii with me, a certain family member's eye bulged almost out of its socket, handled only by steroid injections (but this person never fully recovered).
Me? I would just run OT III as is, and then do NOTs. Don't worry about its factuality.
There is something there to run.
Sincere regards,
OT8-still-in
Alan
Gold Meritorious Patron
Congratulations on making your mock-ups very solid - and fitting what you have been told!
Of course there is something there - ends of civilizations - very traumatic events!
Alan
degraded being
Sponsor
Aka "postulate", "decision", "thought", etc.. "Charge" is a pcs OWN.
Mark A. Baker
Yes. But it is not allowed to be so. It will be deconstructed and put together again as "case-per elrons tech".
And that which does not exist for the "pc" will be invented for him/her.. as he/she finds out that "the bridge" is a map out of all of his/her charge.
And if "charge" really is being released and the person is getting gains (which I do not deny) it comes with a belief system embedded in it. It comes with identity construction - according to ron and delivered by dedicated auditors
c/ses supervisors and co cult members.
As you progress your own terms of reference for even carrying out the commands are not you own. They are elrons. Once again I'll refer to OT III
where they talk to BT's who are there due to a scenario which the Pre OT often maintains he thinks is a load of crap.
It actually starts waaaaaaay earlier.
degraded being
Sponsor
Amazing. Yesterday I had pain in my shoulder. When I get it it usually lasts
a few days. I had made it worse by massaging it - maybe it was inflamed.
Last night as I did some objectives. I just located my body and located the room - just relaxing getting ready for sleep.
In the morning the pain had completely gone and it still feels good several hours later. So don't knock the tech.
BTW I just can't be bothered mentioning that I took 2 tylenol and supplements that supposedly help with joint pain. And had a soak at the sauna.
Hatshepsut
Crusader
I just cannnot project the scenario onto, and intend and 8-C anything through that level anymore. The areas being located in or on the body are already in a new valence. My experience of assuming that Level III is their basic basic.. is it feels evaluative. I can get away with it. But the non-judgemental earlier universe question usually does it. Everyone has their own charge on that... I knew some at the Advanced Ability Center going through upper level III that did use valence technique just fine.
Overall I found I had a mocked up PVC pipe (complete with elbow joint) that funnelled BTs in just as fast I was rid of them. Did not have this problem with valence technique.
When I read that LRH originally wrote up his discovery on this level backwards so you had to read it held up to a mirror well..That was part of Crowley's training for Exempt Adepts. It seems some OT III content formed part of one of the gates of hell ( per Ron). One had to be careful crossing and not fall into the Abyss.
I did not need to pay the price of LRH's descent into necromancy. Or his struggle with the big Archon.. The Archons I wrestle are not exactly the same.r
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib913.html READ WHAT RON CUT HIS TEETH ON WHILE EXPOSED TO THE OCCULT
Above link Compliments of an earlier post by Veda
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degraded being
Sponsor
I just cannnot project the scenario onto, and intend and 8-C anything through that level anymore. The areas being located in or on the body are already in a new valence. My experience of assuming that Level III is their basic basic.. is it feels evaluative. I can get away with it. But the non-judgemental earlier universe question usually does it. Everyone has their own charge on that... I knew some at the Advanced Ability Center going through upper level III that did use valence technique just fine.
Overall I found I had a mocked up PVC pipe (complete with elbow joint) that funnelled BTs in just as fast I was rid of them. Did not have this problem with valence technique.
When I read that LRH originally wrote up his discovery on this level backwards so you had to read it held up to a mirror well..
I did not need to pay the price of LRH's descent into necromancy. Or his struggle with the big Archon.. The Archons I wrestle are not exactly the same.
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib913.html READ WHAT RON CUT HIS TEETH ON WHILE EXPOSED TO THE OCCULT
Above link Compliments of an earlier post by Veda
Is it possible to say what the "non judgemental earlier universe" question is?
Hatshepsut
Crusader
You ask...
Earlier Universe?
check for read.
mass should blow if indicates. F/N
A person can have bits of himself trapped in a timestream. Get his basic and he'll release.
Earlier Universe?
check for read.
mass should blow if indicates. F/N
A person can have bits of himself trapped in a timestream. Get his basic and he'll release.
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degraded being
Sponsor
Really?
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
But there is a good point here. A question that a person can freely answer "yes" or "no" to is not automatically a non-evaluative one. If the person being asked gets the idea that the questioner would believe an answer either way, that in itself is telling. So is an idea that is completely new to the person, even if the idea is that a certain innocent-seeming action is unacceptable.
Examples:
- "Have you ever brutally raped anyone?" asked in all seriousness of a friend, conveying the idea that you could believe him capable of such an act.
- "Have you ever been guilty of touching someone on the elbow at the same time as saying 'hello'?"
- "Have you ever been alone in a room with a child not your own?"
"Is there an earlier universe?" asked of a being who hadn't thought of such things is not non-evaluative. Maybe it doesn't make any difference, though.
Paul
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
If your point is "Co$ is bad". I agree.
If your point is "auditing is bad". I do not agree.
I do not view the "Bridge" as anything more than "a collection of likely material" which is useful to address when seeking to resolve individual case charge. How individuals react varies greatly. However, individuals commonly experience significant charge associated with various aspects of auditing on the "Bridge".
Rather like doing "prerequisites" for a college program. It's often a good place to start.
My own view is that one should NEVER accept as necessarily true another's viewpoint of what has occurred or will occur in one's own auditing. That's for the pc to sort out for himself.
Given that proviso, I had benefit from auditing on OT III. My views re OT III are not Hubbard's, as expressed in his materials.
Mark A. Baker
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Not exactly but more or less, yes.
Prior to doing OT III in the freezone and when I was still on mission lines in the church I had a series of extraordinarily "heavily charged" dianetics sessions run. By this time I had had quite a bit of auditing and had some experience of blowing "heavy charge". These sessions all dealt with much higher levels of "charge" than I had previously encountered. They all dealt with a single turbulent & traumatic period in a "space opera" environment.
Key to the resolution of these sessions was my spotting an incident from early this lifetime where a particular environmental circumstance "keyed in" and resulted in an outbreak of pneumonia. This "key in" & subsequent pneumonia took place in my very early childhood. It neatly paralleled certain elements in the "earlier" session incident.
Subsequently I learned that the time period involved in the running of my incident corresponded to that of the supposed OT III Inc. II. When I finally did OT III in the freezone my first reaction was laughter. I was struck by some parallels between Hubbard's tale and my own earlier dianetics sessions. I still find them amusing.
I don't consider that Hubbard's account is by any means accurate. DartSmohen has elsewhere posted some of the actual history behind Hubbard's "research" of OT III. But then who is to say whether any such recalls are completely accurate or wholly illusory? That's not really the point.
Mark A. Baker
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
In regards to the unusual aspects of the subject under discussion.
I commented on an anomaly I'd noticed regarding the Xenu legend in October last year. This post provoked a number of very derogatory responses questioning my sanity and intentions. My only intention was to put forward some actual experiential data regarding OT3 that I find anomalous.
The original post, giving the context of the response is here;
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=161682&postcount=65
but for those with click-phobia here is the text (I even used my new-found paragraphing skills to make it more readable);
(Begin quote)
"At the risk of being viewed as a complete nutter, I've decided, nonetheless, to tell something more of myself in relation to this subject.
I never "met" Xenu in session but I "saw" and ran out plenty of volcanoes and atomic-like explosions in Dianetics long before I ever got to the confidential data of OTIII.
I once had an intensive Director of Processing check (in the middle of Dianetic auditing) because the C/S assumed I must have been exposed to "Upper Level" data whilst still a pre-Clear.
My answer was, basically, "I'm just answering the auditing question".
I ran much of this type of incident to great relief on Standard Dianetics, R3R.
When I was studying the non-confidential part of OTIII, before you get to the Xenu story, I was experiencing some incredible and unusual (for me) mis-emotions; grief, fear, anger, rage etc. I concluded that I must have missed something on OTII. I wrote a report on this to the C/S and in that report I described what I was feeling (the grief, fear, anger, rage etc) as, "It's like I'm sitting on a volcano, waiting to blow up!" The Tech Sec interviewed me and gave me an R-Factor from the C/S to the effect of, "You're not leaving the building until you get through to the confidential data (Xenu story)".
We all had a good laugh about my choice of words after I'd read the actual data.
What's it all mean?
I can state with complete honesty that I'd never been exposed to or seen the Xenu data before this time, yet there it was, a completely satisfactory answer to everything I'd been experiencing. The mis-emotion dissolved and I returned to my "normal" self just on reading this "acceptable explanation".
That doesn't mean that I buy the Xenu story, I don't!
It means that it "explained" what I'd run into and keyed it out.
To me, the Xenu story is a script Hubbard wrote to account for some things he otherwise couldn't account for.
There are people much more qualified than me to comment on this aspect of Hubbard but it seems to me that he ALWAYS had to know more about everything than anyone else!
If he didn't know the truth of something he created it. The Millazzo RD (developed by another) on OTIII can produce much more spectacular session phenomena than running the Hubbardian incidents but, as I've said before, I think the fact of simply communicating to another Being produces most of what we experienced in scn.
There it is, make of it what you will.
Panda." (end quote).
PS: I'm kinda touchy about quoting myself so keep the jibes to a minimum, please.
I commented on an anomaly I'd noticed regarding the Xenu legend in October last year. This post provoked a number of very derogatory responses questioning my sanity and intentions. My only intention was to put forward some actual experiential data regarding OT3 that I find anomalous.
The original post, giving the context of the response is here;
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=161682&postcount=65
but for those with click-phobia here is the text (I even used my new-found paragraphing skills to make it more readable);
(Begin quote)
"At the risk of being viewed as a complete nutter, I've decided, nonetheless, to tell something more of myself in relation to this subject.
I never "met" Xenu in session but I "saw" and ran out plenty of volcanoes and atomic-like explosions in Dianetics long before I ever got to the confidential data of OTIII.
I once had an intensive Director of Processing check (in the middle of Dianetic auditing) because the C/S assumed I must have been exposed to "Upper Level" data whilst still a pre-Clear.
My answer was, basically, "I'm just answering the auditing question".
I ran much of this type of incident to great relief on Standard Dianetics, R3R.
When I was studying the non-confidential part of OTIII, before you get to the Xenu story, I was experiencing some incredible and unusual (for me) mis-emotions; grief, fear, anger, rage etc. I concluded that I must have missed something on OTII. I wrote a report on this to the C/S and in that report I described what I was feeling (the grief, fear, anger, rage etc) as, "It's like I'm sitting on a volcano, waiting to blow up!" The Tech Sec interviewed me and gave me an R-Factor from the C/S to the effect of, "You're not leaving the building until you get through to the confidential data (Xenu story)".
We all had a good laugh about my choice of words after I'd read the actual data.
What's it all mean?
I can state with complete honesty that I'd never been exposed to or seen the Xenu data before this time, yet there it was, a completely satisfactory answer to everything I'd been experiencing. The mis-emotion dissolved and I returned to my "normal" self just on reading this "acceptable explanation".
That doesn't mean that I buy the Xenu story, I don't!
It means that it "explained" what I'd run into and keyed it out.
To me, the Xenu story is a script Hubbard wrote to account for some things he otherwise couldn't account for.
There are people much more qualified than me to comment on this aspect of Hubbard but it seems to me that he ALWAYS had to know more about everything than anyone else!
If he didn't know the truth of something he created it. The Millazzo RD (developed by another) on OTIII can produce much more spectacular session phenomena than running the Hubbardian incidents but, as I've said before, I think the fact of simply communicating to another Being produces most of what we experienced in scn.
There it is, make of it what you will.
Panda." (end quote).
PS: I'm kinda touchy about quoting myself so keep the jibes to a minimum, please.
Div6
Crusader
In regards to the unusual aspects of the subject under discussion.
I commented on an anomaly I'd noticed regarding the Xenu legend in October last year. This post provoked a number of very derogatory responses questioning my sanity and intentions. My only intention was to put forward some actual experiential data regarding OT3 that I find anomalous.
The original post, giving the context of the response is here;
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=161682&postcount=65
but for those with click-phobia here is the text (I even used my new-found paragraphing skills to make it more readable);
(Begin quote)
"At the risk of being viewed as a complete nutter, I've decided, nonetheless, to tell something more of myself in relation to this subject.
I never "met" Xenu in session but I "saw" and ran out plenty of volcanoes and atomic-like explosions in Dianetics long before I ever got to the confidential data of OTIII.
I once had an intensive Director of Processing check (in the middle of Dianetic auditing) because the C/S assumed I must have been exposed to "Upper Level" data whilst still a pre-Clear.
My answer was, basically, "I'm just answering the auditing question".
I ran much of this type of incident to great relief on Standard Dianetics, R3R.
When I was studying the non-confidential part of OTIII, before you get to the Xenu story, I was experiencing some incredible and unusual (for me) mis-emotions; grief, fear, anger, rage etc. I concluded that I must have missed something on OTII. I wrote a report on this to the C/S and in that report I described what I was feeling (the grief, fear, anger, rage etc) as, "It's like I'm sitting on a volcano, waiting to blow up!" The Tech Sec interviewed me and gave me an R-Factor from the C/S to the effect of, "You're not leaving the building until you get through to the confidential data (Xenu story)".
We all had a good laugh about my choice of words after I'd read the actual data.
What's it all mean?
I can state with complete honesty that I'd never been exposed to or seen the Xenu data before this time, yet there it was, a completely satisfactory answer to everything I'd been experiencing. The mis-emotion dissolved and I returned to my "normal" self just on reading this "acceptable explanation".
That doesn't mean that I buy the Xenu story, I don't!
It means that it "explained" what I'd run into and keyed it out.
To me, the Xenu story is a script Hubbard wrote to account for some things he otherwise couldn't account for.
There are people much more qualified than me to comment on this aspect of Hubbard but it seems to me that he ALWAYS had to know more about everything than anyone else!
If he didn't know the truth of something he created it. The Millazzo RD (developed by another) on OTIII can produce much more spectacular session phenomena than running the Hubbardian incidents but, as I've said before, I think the fact of simply communicating to another Being produces most of what we experienced in scn.
There it is, make of it what you will.
Panda." (end quote).
PS: I'm kinda touchy about quoting myself so keep the jibes to a minimum, please.
I believe you Panda.
After I "went clear" it was another 2 years before ir was indicated to me, and I got my CCRD. Soon thereafter every mass on my body "keyed in" and I had pnuemonia like symptoms. Drs found no physical cause. I got some assist type actions as I was the only sup on post for both D and F orgs...all the rest were out training for KTL & LOC. It wasn't until I started auditing on Section III that I realized what was going on...
So I really think the Non-int zone should truly be enforced. (I also think it would go WAY better if people could stay at their Cl V orgs and solo through III). I truly believe that the pressure of being away from work, home etc leads to quickies on II and III.
Further, I have had other physical symptoms "turn on" when certain "bt" type case emerges: colds, flu symptoms, and other physical manifestations have emerged. I do go to the Dr for checkups, and they routinely pass out the pills and say it will be better soon.....it usually blows fairly quickly once the right incident is spotted and blown.
Just my .02
Veda
Sponsor
Then use the Milazzo RD, and skip the drug-hallucination/mind games, in which case it wouldn't be "OT 3" anymore would it?
And, of course, to an Implantologist, that wouldn't be acceptable, despite the denials and PR.
In the mean time, to you Xenu-tech folks, is it really necessary to continue to scare people - particularly newbie lurkers - just to convince them how wonderful the Implantology levels really are? Aren't there more subtle ways of promoting your beloved Implantology?
And, of course, to an Implantologist, that wouldn't be acceptable, despite the denials and PR.
In the mean time, to you Xenu-tech folks, is it really necessary to continue to scare people - particularly newbie lurkers - just to convince them how wonderful the Implantology levels really are? Aren't there more subtle ways of promoting your beloved Implantology?
Div6
Crusader
It is just highly amusing to see you REACT, predictably and on cue.
I can set my watch by you.
Great job.
