Why Ex Scientologists flip-flop

TomKat

Patron Meritorious
Insightful post. Sounds like a crisis of faith, which we had in Scientology and now seek in its perceived opposite, Science -- flip/flop, back and forth. At some point we should develop our own sense of what is true, not based on a school of thought. The toothpaste has grown and we're not going to get it back in the tube -- that's personal growth. Some find independence lonely.... so we must learn to be our own best friend.

*****************************************************************************************************************
If you’ve been watching the Scientology scene for a while, you will have seen your share of Ex Scientologists flip flopping from one viewpoint to another. If you’ve ever wondered why, I hope what I’ve written in this post will give you some insight. This is all just my opinion, however I’ve had first hand experience in this. I flip flopped BADLY for the first 3 or 4 years I was out.

When you are in Scientology, you are given a precious gift – certainty.

It’s really comforting to be totally sure about life and how life works. There are no mysteries within the Scientology bubble. There is an answer for everything. No one says “I don’t know”. Every action of every person on the planet can be explained within the “philosophy” of Scientology. You look around you at these unknowing “wogs” and shake your head in pity at their naivety.

Yes there are hardships in Scientology, even as a public, which progressively get worse as you rise through the ranks to Staffer, then to Sea Orger. What keeps people “in” even when faced with strict disciplinary actions, disconnection etc. is (in my opinion) the total certainty you get as a Scientologist.

When I first left Scientology, I lost everything that was important to me (except my daughter who I never let go of).
http://natterblog.com/why-ex-scientologists-flip-flop/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JustSheila

Crusader
Great blog post, Ems.

So true.

What a strange and glitchy human thing, the way we can be so satisfied to give up the confusions, the daily personal judgments and the hard decisions that go with being an individual for the sake of being part of a group that we believe will cure all the ills of this world.

Our social animal nature is to group and leave decisions to the leader, but out human, rational nature is to seek our own paths and think for ourselves.

That conflict exists in everyone's lives. The urge to be part of the pack and take part in pack mentality, whether at a hockey game or trying to be part of the 'in' crowd in high school. When the pack mentality is constant, resistance is so much harder. When we think like social animals, we don't 'think' very rationally at all.

I truly wonder about our dual nature as humankind. Is this part of our biological progression as a species to experience this conflict? What will humans be like in a hundred years or a thousand - will our brains develop in such a way that we can still be completely rational and not feel conflicted if we hold non-mainstream opinions, or will we still feel that loss of community from group-think and a united purpose? Will human groups always instinctually bond against those that are different?

And what is this other powerful, basic, urge, this urge to sacrifice everything for the sake of the larger good? Why is this urge so powerful that it blocks rational thought? Why is it innate?

So many questions, so many guesses and theories but no answers. Just blowing in the wind.

[video=youtube;3l4nVByCL44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4nVByCL44&noredirect=1[/video]
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
When you are in Scientology, you are given a precious gift – certainty.

It’s really comforting to be totally sure about life and how life works. There are no mysteries within the Scientology bubble. There is an answer for everything. No one says “I don’t know”. Every action of every person on the planet can be explained within the “philosophy” of Scientology. You look around you at these unknowing “wogs” and shake your head in pity at their naivety.

I lost my religion & belief system (I believed everything Hubbard said about thetans, the reactive mind, overts & withhold, misunderstood words, ser facs etc).

I lost my purpose in life (I wanted to help mankind “rise above the bank” and I wanted to be Clear & OT and have super dooper powerz)

I miss the community and the shared purpose. I miss “knowing” about life and the freedom that comes with believing I am a “spiritual being”.

Most of all I miss the certainty.

I was certain I knew why people acted the way they did. It was overts or withholds or ser facs or MUs (sorry about the Scn lingo). It was because their case/bank was in control. It was because they had engrams in restimulation.

You went right into my brain and formed all my thoughts and feelings, which were a mass of confusion, into one cohesive narrative.

Although my experience and activities within the church were very limited I read all the basic books many times over and believed in them. I lived 30 years of my life by the tenets of Scientology. I used coffee shop dianetics whenever I could and even had a couple of successes believe it or not. Why they worked I will never know.

Anyway, I thank you for your post. In a funny way it gave me "certainty" on something that I have not been able to answer for years: Why did I crash so hard when I lost my faith?
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Bost Bobby,

TomKat did not write that. Emma did.

TomKat quoted Emma's blog in full and missed marking it with quotes.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I really enjoyed that stream of thought, Emma.

As I was reading and reflecting on my own history, I can’t say that I’ve ever flip flopped per se. There were a few well defined points where my respect for the organization were irreversibly cracked and I could never go back to the way things were. But I still respected LRH and the doctrine for many years and provided support around the periphery. In retrospect, it was all a steady trajectory out and away until I started reading up on the internet. Stories from people I knew and respected confirmed the things in my own experience that were deeply wrong and which in turn lent credibility to their stories. At that point it became clear that regardless of any good or workable things it was one man’s con motivated by money, power and narcissism. And things like the RPF, disconnection, bankrupting people and GO/OSA gang stalking were outright sadistic.

I got into Scientology because it seemed to align with my firm beliefs in the individual as a spiritual being. I liked LRH’s concept of a “Stable Datum” around which everything else could be explained. I never tried to have faith in a “God”. I was and still am content to say that it is presumptuous to assert that one understands such a thing. But I was always very convinced that we were spiritual and lived life after life. If that was possible then why should it only be limited to one place or one planet or thousands of years, why not millions, etc. On one hand I have to ask if LRH was basically correct in this fundamental belief system and just exploited and derailed from there?

Now, I am probably much like you. To a great extent I have lost my faith. I still want to believe that we are spiritual in nature and live lifetime after lifetime but I have to accept that it is possible if not more likely that we are not.

It is kind of liberating in a way. Scientology provides an elaborate package of excuses for everything. Ultimately, if we are immortal and possess absolute power to control matter, energy, space and time then all ethics are so relative as to be irrelevant. Believing that this is it, we are what we are and nothing more forces a person to do what they do without any rationalization. You stand on your own merits.

I prefer this kind of personal integrity over Scientology’s interpretation.
 
Gosh - that was well written. A couple thoughts.

A) I have never doubted that I go from life to life - my certainty on that happened when I was a teen when I had a past life recall. This was before I ever knew what past lives were, or had any involvement with Scientology. It was an ah-ha moment - Oh, that's how it works, you just live life after life.

B) I took drugs and got into Scientology to find out more about my spiritual nature ( although truth be told, in hindsight, the reasons are clearer now then when I joined.) and why I chose Scientology over anything else, was I had this deep feeling that I had practiced meditation, Zen, Buddhism etc previously and found it lacking.

C) so the whole thetan business made a lot of sense to me. After I was declared and began posting here, and reading some of Gadfly's stuff, my curiosity arose, and I read the Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot which made a lot of sense to me. Later I read the Robert Monroe books (Arnie suggested them) about his out of body experiences which contain an interesting take on reality. My most recent book was " the Sense of Being Stared At" by Rupert Sheldrake which is a very interesting book and has statistical data, experiments you can do etc. that tended to validate my teen age belief in A above.

D) I agree - science is rather soul-less and I tend think that is wrong headed in that regard. Just because you can't see or measure a thetan, or you can't explain why people can know who's calling them, when in controlled experiments, it is statistically higher than random chance, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So, bottom line: I don't agree with this:
The Science-based reality I live in now – well it sucks to be honest. I’m getting old. My joints are starting to hurt. My hair is going grey. I will die some day and that will be it. No second chances, no reincarnation, no heaven, no hell, nothing. Just dead.
But, I am willing to let you believe whatever you want.

Michelle, If you are interested in reading the "Sense of being stared at" - PM me your mailing address and I'll send you a copy. I at least owe you that for starting ESMB. It's been a game changer. I can't thank you enough for creating it.

Mimsey

https://www.amazon.com/Sense-Being-...&sr=1-1&keywords=the+sense+of+being+stared+at

51dZgCOZv-L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/Dogs-That-Th...s+that+know+when+their+owners+are+coming+home

Dogs-That-Know.jpg
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
... If you’ve been watching the Scientology scene for a while, you will have seen your share of Ex Scientologists flip flopping from one viewpoint to another. If you’ve ever wondered why, I hope ... .
TomKat, it's not considered appropriate to copy something over from a different web site and post it here in its entireity. Reposting a small portion is all right, especially if you want to discuss it further.

Helena
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
...........

It is kind of liberating in a way. Scientology provides an elaborate package of excuses for everything. Ultimately, if we are immortal and possess absolute power to control matter, energy, space and time then all ethics are so relative as to be irrelevant. Believing that this is it, we are what we are and nothing more forces a person to do what they do without any rationalization. You stand on your own merits.

I prefer this kind of personal integrity over Scientology’s interpretation.


"Scientology provides an elaborate package of excuses for everything"
lololololol, they do seem to have an excuse for everything, "that'll be fixed on your next level" etc. :eyeroll:


I do agree with the Fatman on people getting their own universe cornfused with the MEST playground.

In your own universe ethics would be relative. They would be irrelevant or relevant. However you wanted them to be. And I think, only there would that be true.

In the Playground ethics would be very relevant.
Believing ethics to be irrelevant in the MEST Playground would be Nihilism.
 

Bost_Bobby

Patron with Honors
Bost Bobby,

TomKat did not write that. Emma did.

TomKat quoted Emma's blog in full and missed marking it with quotes.

Thank you, Sheila and my apologies to Emma. This is what happens when I try to think and write before I even have my first cup of morning coffee.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Scientology provides an elaborate package of excuses for everything"
lololololol, they do seem to have an excuse for everything, "that'll be fixed on your next level" etc. :eyeroll:


I do agree with the Fatman on people getting their own universe cornfused with the MEST playground.

In your own universe ethics would be relative. They would be irrelevant or relevant. However you wanted them to be. And I think, only there would that be true.

In the Playground ethics would be very relevant.
Believing ethics to be irrelevant in the MEST Playground would be Nihilism.

Scientology tries to have it both ways. It teaches a very strict code of ethics to be applied in the physical universe but then tries to base these on the fact that they are ultimately irrelevant.

I wonder how irrelevant they would be if Scientologists interpreted this in a way that the stats did not need to be up by 2:00 PM on Thursday, the planet did not need to be saved, the IAS fund did not need donations, Ideal Orgs were a waste, that Clearing and OT and the Bridge were not necessary, and that LRH was not "Source"?

The concept of enlightenment and freedom from the physical world has been perverted into an absolutist physical world system of ethics for the benefit of one man. Its not an original con either. Its actually predictable and to be expected. That it continues to work like a Nigerian inheritance scam is curious. Maybe we need this like the common cold to keep our immune systems active.
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
It took me over 2 DECADES to get that bullshit out of my head. I went back and forth about returning until I got up the nerve to read OT 3. Once there I realized the magnitude of fraud and that EVERY OT I had ever known fucking knew it. I was finally free.

The hardest part was that in addition to much of what's in the OP applying to me as well, I REALLY liked many of my compatriots. Most of them were genuinely good people. I still miss some of them.
 

AnonLover

Patron Meritorious
This was a really great essay Emma.

Some people have flip-flopped more than 10 times! As shown in the following result from the Scientology Exit Survey I ran a few years back.

attachment.php


It was this very question that made realize how pervasive the the addiction aspects of Scientology really are.
 

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uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Now let's have a look at the stats and compare "Marty's hate-blog" to "Emma's natterblog":

Blog entrys on "Marty's hate-blog" since September 23 (1 month): 2

Blog entrys on "Emma's natterblog" since September 23 (1 month): 8

Conclusion:
If Marty doesn't change his stats radically one can predict that more sooner than later he will sink into insignificance - what a big loss..... :eyeroll:
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
We are very much on the same page.
Except for the last line of which I would insert growing in nature towards discovering the amazing miraculous universe of which we are a sometimes frail sometimes strong essential contributor
Great blog post, Ems.

So true.

What a strange and glitchy human thing, the way we can be so satisfied to give up the confusions, the daily personal judgments and the hard decisions that go with being an individual for the sake of being part of a group that we believe will cure all the ills of this world.

Our social animal nature is to group and leave decisions to the leader, but out human, rational nature is to seek our own paths and think for ourselves.

That conflict exists in everyone's lives. The urge to be part of the pack and take part in pack mentality, whether at a hockey game or trying to be part of the 'in' crowd in high school. When the pack mentality is constant, resistance is so much harder. When we think like social animals, we don't 'think' very rationally at all.

I truly wonder about our dual nature as humankind. Is this part of our biological progression as a species to experience this conflict? What will humans be like in a hundred years or a thousand - will our brains develop in such a way that we can still be completely rational and not feel conflicted if we hold non-mainstream opinions, or will we still feel that loss of community from group-think and a united purpose? Will human groups always instinctually bond against those that are different?

And what is this other powerful, basic, urge, this urge to sacrifice everything for the sake of the larger good? Why is this urge so powerful that it blocks rational thought? Why is it innate?

So many questions, so many guesses and theories but no answers. Just blowing in the wind.

[video=youtube;3l4nVByCL44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4nVByCL44&noredirect=1[/video]
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
TomKat, it's not considered appropriate to copy something over from a different web site and post it here in its entireity. Reposting a small portion is all right, especially if you want to discuss it further.

Helena

Natterblog is Emma's so I'm pretty sure she is OK with that.

I understand that even though Emma has a new site now, she still has some sentimental feelings for ESMB.

If not, I'm sure she'll [STRIKE] do a KR and sue this squirrel site[/STRIKE] click the report button.
 
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