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Why Has Mike Rinder Never Revealed A Crime?

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Alanzo, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    If Scientology is a "criminal organization", and OSA is the most criminal part of Scientology, and Mike Rinder ran OSA for 22 years for David Miscavige, why - in the 12 years since he's been out - has he never revealed a crime?
  2. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    FACT: Mike Rinder is one of the greatest whistleblowers in the entire history of the COS (Crimewave of Scientology).​

    FACT: Alanzo compulsively targets & trolls the most successful & effective whistleblowers who are exposing the cult's crimes.​

    Deleted: insult


    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2019
  3. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Oh gawd, why can't you just discuss? Both of you.

    Alanzo, one sentence of a highly inflammable nature won't get you into a discussion. You know most people on this board don't agree with you. Would Plato or Socrates have been successful in explaining their ideas in one sentence? Try harder.

    HH, same with you. You can't just dismiss an idea you don't agree with as trolling. Explain to him why you think he's wrong.

    You are both excellent writers, but I'm not seeing it. Calling someone an asshole or a troll is easy. Making a case is not. Why don't you intelligently discuss this? It could be enlightening.
    vumba and Me and My Self like this.
  4. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Here are some of the ways that this weird situation has attempted to be answered:

    In the 11 years since being out, Mike Rinder has never once exposed any act that would put David Miscavige into criminal jeopardy, despite 3 seasons of a TV show that claimed they wanted a federal investigation. He has exposed no criminal acts even though he has been out with access to a blog every day, and yet he ran all fair game for DM as CO OSA for 22 years.

    Question: Why hasn't Mike revealed any crimes?

    I'll list all the explanations, or theories, or hypotheses that try to answer this question that I'm aware of.

    Please add any that I might have missed.

    ** The NO CRIME Hypothesis: Marty Mike and Dave didn't commit any crimes. 11 top Scientologists, including Mary Sue, had been convicted of felonies and sent to prison. They'd learned their lesson. There were no crimes to report.
    Probability level:

    ** The SCIENTOLOGY/GOVERNMENT Hypothesis: Mike HAS reported all kinds of crimes - he went to the FBI with them 11 years ago. But because of pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies, the government will do nothing about them.
    Probability Level:

    ** The LIMITED HANGOUT Hypothesis: Because of the billions of dollars at stake for Scientology, DM and MR worked out an "ALL CLEAR UNIT" kind of project where Mike would wind everyone up on moral outrages, but constantly steer everyone away from any criminal activity that might bring subpeonae, forensic accounting etc. They have the money to handle any civil suit, what they can't handle is criminal indictments.
    Probability Level:

    ** The MIKE WAS IN THE HOLE Hypothesis: Mike was just a former spokesman for the Church of Scientology, never ran any OSA fair game ops, especially any criminal ones. So while there may be criminal activity to discover, Mike was always in the Hole or practicing speeches into the mirror, and didn't know about them.
    Probability Level:

    ** The TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis: Mike has revealed all the crimes he knows about, but because of the 1st amendment and lack of smoking guns on them, plus prosecutorial ethics, no charges have been filed.
    Probability Level:

    ** The CYA Hypothesis: Mike knows about all kinds of crimes, but because of his own exposure to prosecution, he's not talking.
    Probability Level:

    ** The MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION Hypothesis: DM and Mike were up to their neck in criminal activity, but if one goes to the coppers, the other will too. So they're both quiet.
    Probability Level:

    Did I miss any?

    If you think this list is complete, assign a probability level to each one and state why you ranked it that way.
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    You have no idea as to what Mike Rinder has revealed to the FBI or has attempted to reveal via the Aftermath show and various media outlets.

    Your question contains a logical fallacy.
    A loaded question is a logical fallacy that occurs when statements or questions are designed to confuse listeners into tacitly accepting something (which isn't obviously clear in the question) as true.
    lotus likes this.
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    So we can put you down for the TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis then?
    The TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis: Mike has revealed all the crimes he knows about, but because of the 1st amendment and lack of smoking guns on them, plus prosecutorial ethics, no charges have been filed.
    Do you give that hypothesis a 100% probability and assign a zero probability to all others?​
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  7. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Your points are reasonable. I do have discussions with everyone here for ten years. Everyone that sincerely wishes to engage in conversation.

    That's not what Alanzo does. If he did why was he banned from multiple websites (this one too) and/or rage quit because he is running attack ops.

    Sure they all begin the same way with the philosophical patina of earnest questions. That's just the BAIT. It always ends the same way.

    At this point, he has trolled so many people in so many places and on so many websites, why would anyone not know what his gimmick is?

    I enjoy conversations. That has nothing to do with what Alanzo is doing. Sorry, I learned this the hard way countless times. That's how I became "ESMBs BIGGEST ASSHOLE". LOL.

    I do appreciate your diplomatic and sensible approach. But you yourself have been stabbed in the back more than once by Alanzo. If you want to give him a free pass, no problem. But why does anyone else have to let him game and run personality attacks with these lame and repetitive troll gimmicks? When Alanzo was trolling up the whole board on his "crusades" and even started accusing you of tinfoil plots, why didn't YOU "just discuss it" with him and "explain it to him" the way you are advising me?

    Hey after I figured out that Scientology was gaming and trolling me (and everyone else) I left. But the lesson learned was to call it out when it is happening, not years later after all the damage was already done. So, when someone is a hard core troll (despite their fake bait of an "innocent question" or "philosophical inquiry"), I don't see anything wrong with calling it in real time. Even little junky pieces of clay deserve to be labeled, why not trolls? LOL
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I'm with HH on this one. This thread has already introduced contention, again.

  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    This issue has been discussed ad nauseum. I don't see why it needs another thread.

    But as long as we are here...again. Maybe what Mike has been doing is exactly what needed to be done because there wasn't enough public awareness about Scientology to support him even if he did use the nuclear option. Overall, the governments and courts have been a huge disappointment. It seems the only place we are winning big is in the court of public opinion. The tide has clearly turned against them in the media and Scientology has become synonymous with cults, abuse and gaslighting. I can't imagine that Scientology can ever reverse that perception. Now they are preparing what appears to be some very serious litigation based on the whole body of Scientology like a RICO case. I doubt that could have been possible without setting the groundwork first like Mike and Leah have done, and without a solid footing his revelations could be used more against him than against Scientology.

    Maybe things could have played out differently. Maybe all of this wasn't deliberately calculated by Mike but on the whole I think it has worked out pretty well.

    And a big tip of the hat to Anonymous. Things would still be very far behind if not for their part.
    Jenyfurrr, J. Swift, Enthetan and 7 others like this.
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I'm with Paul on this one
  11. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I think this is a new hypothesis, not in the original list.

    Are you saying that the reason Mike Rinder hasn't revealed any crimes is because the world was not ready for them to be revealed yet? Like it would not have done any good until Scientology and the Aftermath laid its groundwork?
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  12. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Most (if not all) of the people who have done or are doing something to expose the cult of scientology with facts and truth have been attacked by you @Alanzo ... why is that?

    It has always appeared (to me) that you are jealous because nothing you have tried to do has had any effect ... am I wrong and if so, how?
  13. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    How do you know Mike didn't revealed any crime ( if any)????

    Your question is fallacious???
    why Marty didn't revealed any crime??? Did he reveal it to you???
    TheOriginalBigBlue and Karen#1 like this.
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    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

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  15. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Alright, I'll bite.
    Depends on your definition of "crimes". Moral crimes? Of course. Thousands of them. Actual law breaking crimes? Well that's quite a curly question. If you accuse Miscavige of criminality, then how can you say that Mike & Marty are blameless? (unless of course you believe that DM committed all his crimes after Mike & Marty left). So if Mike & Marty committed no crimes when they were in, and they were DMs henchmen, then I guess DM committed no crimes either.
    This to me has a high probability. I believe Mike went to the FBI. I'm not sure about the "pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies" bit but I believe he did go. And I believe the FBI would prosecute if they had enough evidence, or there wasn't 1st Amendment difficulties or other loopholes or precedents that Scientology uses to circumvent the law.
    It would take too much organisation. These types of conspiracies are too hard to pull of. If the above were the case Marty would still be around collecting Indies. You can't have this conspiracy without Marty.
    We know Mike was not just a former spokesperson. That's an OSA line to try and make Mike less significant. Mike was in the hole but we also know he was in and out of the hole to do certain things, following John Sweeney and harassing him was one of those things.
    Mike is only human. If you had a second chance at life, and decided to do good with it, and had a beautiful wife & kids, and there was no one chasing you trying to arrest you, why would you undo all of that if you were guilty? (I'm not saying he is or isn't guilty).
    You keep leaving Marty out of your hypotheses. It's a threesome - one in all in. Although possible, I don't think it's likely. As I said above I believe Mike did go to the FBI, and may even have cut a deal in exchange for information. If DM hasn't been prosecuted, then Mike is covered on two sides - the (hypothetical) deal and the fact that DM hasn't been prosecuted, means that Mike is also safe.

    Some of these hypotheses have a possibility of being true, only Mike knows for sure. My question for you is....

    Why, after all this time, do you still have such a hard on for Mike Rinder?
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  16. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Is Mike Rinder supposed to behave as an amateur idiot and tell publicly the crimes ( if Any) he know about. ????

    I too believe he disclosed events To FBI and he certainly would play safe and make an agreement with them. Meanwhile, wether it leaded to any investigation or not, he needs to play safe and not expose his family to more cult vicious attacks\threats

    But your good buddy Marty certainly knows way more than us about the situation and , none the less, you would be gifted with cup cakes while discussing the whole in the old good days...

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  17. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    I wish I had. I wish tempers had not been as inflamed. I wish we were all a little calmer. It was a turbulent time that I'm glad is over.

    I just want to see an exchange of ideas. I guess I'm curious as to whether my original purpose of the board is still relevant, or if ESMB has become a place where ideas cannot be exchanged and challenged without insults. Maybe I live in the clouds.
    Enthetan likes this.
  18. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Call it a hypothesis if you want.

    I will say however that one of my realizations about life and livingness from Scientology is that Scientologists have a tendency to disregard the role that time plays in logic, outcomes or "conditions". Scientology indoctrinates people to arrive at conclusions and to make important decision that disregard time and random unforeseen factors. It's like they are stuck in a perpetual stat push.

    For example, if Mike did out himself and the circumstances resulted in him getting crushed to the point that he could not do what he is doing now and the COS was minimally or not effected at all then from where we are seeing things now that could be perceived as having been self-defeating and short sighted.

    I'm sure that there are victims out there who could have exacted justice and punishment on Mike which he probably deserves and they very much wanted but short of crucifying himself it does seem as though he has performed his own A to E back into society's good graces as well if not better than anyone else.

    In many respects this is very much like a mafia whistle blower situation. It seems you expect the whistle blower to risk everything without making a deal as state's witness. The local police, Feds and the IRS have all demonstrated a complete lack of effectiveness so why should he put his fate in their hands? Who would do that? Would you do that? Even mafia whistle blowers are compelled to make a deal because they will get killed from one side or put in prison for life by the other but Mike isn't under that pressure - only his own conscience. Maybe he wants to use this time to establish enough mitigating circumstances so that when and if he does put his head on the chopping block the court and victims will go lighter on him. Would you do anything differently?

    I'm just another voice on the internet expressing an opinion. I probably passed Mike in the halls but I don't really know him. I think I have a fairly educated basis for understanding this overall situation but it also seems as though he has evolved. Leaving Scientology demands a lot of self-reflection and evolving and I think it is silly to not expect anyone in his shoes to not need to do that. So maybe that evolving touched on the things I'm saying here and at some point he settled on a course of action that led him to where he is now. It's a pretty good place all things considered.

    Anyway, I've said all I want on this. I'm outta here.
    Jenyfurrr, freethinker, lotus and 5 others like this.
  19. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    This. Yes this. Alanzo I'd love it if you would answer this question. What would you do differently?
  20. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Let's say Mike came out and said he did something one time very bad, or a few times very bad or many times very bad. How would this help you?

    What would this accomplish? Would you now have the proof that Mike is a criminal and attack him on what he said? isn't that what OSA would do?

    Would Mike suddenly be clean of his overts and now be able to really go after Miscavige and Scientology?

    In America one has the right not to incriminate themselves. Mike has not been arrested or accused of a crime since he has been out. He criticizes the COS continually but that isn't enough for you so what do you gain if he admitted some crimes?

    Believe me, if Mike was still the Mike of his church days and was doing the same things, he wouldn't last long, so what is to be gained by having him tell you what they did? You want to use it to go after the church or to go after Mike?