If Scientology is a "criminal organization", and OSA is the most criminal part of Scientology, and Mike Rinder ran OSA for 22 years for David Miscavige, why - in the 12 years since he's been out - has he never revealed a crime?
QUESTION: Why Has Mike Rinder Never Revealed A Crime?
You have no idea as to what Mike Rinder has revealed to the FBI or has attempted to reveal via the Aftermath show and various media outlets.If Scientology is a "criminal organization", and OSA is the most criminal part of Scientology, and Mike Rinder ran OSA for 22 years for David Miscavige, why - in the 12 years since he's been out - has he never revealed a crime?
You have no idea as to what Mike Rinder has revealed to the FBI or has attempted to reveal via the Aftermath show and various media outlets.
Your question contains a logical fallacy.
A loaded question is a logical fallacy that occurs when statements or questions are designed to confuse listeners into tacitly accepting something (which isn't obviously clear in the question) as true.
Your points are reasonable. I do have discussions with everyone here for ten years. Everyone that sincerely wishes to engage in conversation.Oh gawd, why can't you just discuss? Both of you.
Alanzo, one sentence of a highly inflammable nature won't get you into a discussion. You know most people on this board don't agree with you. Would Plato or Socrates have been successful in explaining their ideas in one sentence? Try harder.
HH, same with you. You can't just dismiss an idea you don't agree with as trolling. Explain to him why you think he's wrong.
You are both excellent writers, but I'm not seeing it. Calling someone an asshole or a troll is easy. Making a case is not. Why don't you intelligently discuss this? It could be enlightening.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseum. I don't see why it needs another thread.
But as long as we are here...again. Maybe what Mike has been doing is exactly what needed to be done because there wasn't enough public awareness about Scientology to support him even if he did use the nuclear option. Overall, the governments and courts have been a huge disappointment. It seems the only place we are winning big is in the court of public opinion. The tide has clearly turned against them in the media and Scientology has become synonymous with cults, abuse and gaslighting. I can't imagine that Scientology can ever reverse that perception. Now they are preparing what appears to be some very serious litigation based on the whole body of Scientology like a RICO case. I doubt that could have been possible without setting the groundwork first like Mike and Leah have done, and without a solid footing his revelations could be used more against him than against Scientology.
Maybe things could have played out differently. Maybe all of this wasn't deliberately calculated by Mike but on the whole I think it has worked out pretty well.
And a big tip of the hat to Anonymous. Things would still be very far behind if not for their part.
Okay then, I'll just make the official announcement.I'm with Paul on this one
Depends on your definition of "crimes". Moral crimes? Of course. Thousands of them. Actual law breaking crimes? Well that's quite a curly question. If you accuse Miscavige of criminality, then how can you say that Mike & Marty are blameless? (unless of course you believe that DM committed all his crimes after Mike & Marty left). So if Mike & Marty committed no crimes when they were in, and they were DMs henchmen, then I guess DM committed no crimes either.** The NO CRIME Hypothesis: Marty Mike and Dave didn't commit any crimes. 11 top Scientologists, including Mary Sue, had been convicted of felonies and sent to prison. They'd learned their lesson. There were no crimes to report.
Probability level: LOW
This to me has a high probability. I believe Mike went to the FBI. I'm not sure about the "pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies" bit but I believe he did go. And I believe the FBI would prosecute if they had enough evidence, or there wasn't 1st Amendment difficulties or other loopholes or precedents that Scientology uses to circumvent the law.** The SCIENTOLOGY/GOVERNMENT Hypothesis: Mike HAS reported all kinds of crimes - he went to the FBI with them 11 years ago. But because of pay-offs, underhanded dealings and other conspiracies, the government will do nothing about them.
Probability Level: HIGH
It would take too much organisation. These types of conspiracies are too hard to pull of. If the above were the case Marty would still be around collecting Indies. You can't have this conspiracy without Marty.** The LIMITED HANGOUT Hypothesis: Because of the billions of dollars at stake for Scientology, DM and MR worked out an "ALL CLEAR UNIT" kind of project where Mike would wind everyone up on moral outrages, but constantly steer everyone away from any criminal activity that might bring subpeonae, forensic accounting etc. They have the money to handle any civil suit, what they can't handle is criminal indictments.
Probability Level: LOW
We know Mike was not just a former spokesperson. That's an OSA line to try and make Mike less significant. Mike was in the hole but we also know he was in and out of the hole to do certain things, following John Sweeney and harassing him was one of those things.** The MIKE WAS IN THE HOLE Hypothesis: Mike was just a former spokesman for the Church of Scientology, never ran any OSA fair game ops, especially any criminal ones. So while there may be criminal activity to discover, Mike was always in the Hole or practicing speeches into the mirror, and didn't know about them.
Probability Level: HUH? - not a relevant hypothesis
N/A** The TOO HARD TO PROSECUTE Hypothesis: Mike has revealed all the crimes he knows about, but because of the 1st amendment and lack of smoking guns on them, plus prosecutorial ethics, no charges have been filed.
Probability Level: Answered above
Mike is only human. If you had a second chance at life, and decided to do good with it, and had a beautiful wife & kids, and there was no one chasing you trying to arrest you, why would you undo all of that if you were guilty? (I'm not saying he is or isn't guilty).** The CYA Hypothesis: Mike knows about all kinds of crimes, but because of his own exposure to prosecution, he's not talking.
Probability Level: POSSIBLE
You keep leaving Marty out of your hypotheses. It's a threesome - one in all in. Although possible, I don't think it's likely. As I said above I believe Mike did go to the FBI, and may even have cut a deal in exchange for information. If DM hasn't been prosecuted, then Mike is covered on two sides - the (hypothetical) deal and the fact that DM hasn't been prosecuted, means that Mike is also safe.** The MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION Hypothesis: DM and Mike were up to their neck in criminal activity, but if one goes to the coppers, the other will too. So they're both quiet.
Probability Level: POSSIBLE BUT NOT LIKELY
I wish I had. I wish tempers had not been as inflamed. I wish we were all a little calmer. It was a turbulent time that I'm glad is over.When Alanzo was trolling up the whole board on his "crusades" and even started accusing you of tinfoil plots, why didn't YOU "just discuss it" with him and "explain it to him" the way you are advising me?
Call it a hypothesis if you want.I think this is a new hypothesis, not in the original list.
Are you saying that the reason Mike Rinder hasn't revealed any crimes is because the world was not ready to reveal them? Like it would not have done any good until Scientology and the Aftermath laid its groundwork?
This. Yes this. Alanzo I'd love it if you would answer this question. What would you do differently?In many respects this is very much like a mafia whistle blower situation. It seems you expect the whistle blower to risk everything without making a deal as state's witness. The local police, Feds and the IRS have all demonstrated a complete lack of effectiveness so why should he put his fate in their hands? Who would do that? Would you do that? Even mafia whistle blowers are compelled to make a deal because they will get killed from one side or put in prison for life by the other but Mike isn't under that pressure - only his own conscience. Maybe he wants to use this time to establish enough mitigating circumstances so that when and if he does put his head on the chopping block the court and victims will go lighter on him. Would you do anything differently?
Let's say Mike came out and said he did something one time very bad, or a few times very bad or many times very bad. How would this help you?I think this is a new hypothesis, not in the original list.
Are you saying that the reason Mike Rinder hasn't revealed any crimes is because the world was not ready for them to be revealed yet? Like it would not have done any good until Scientology and the Aftermath laid its groundwork?