Why Has Mike Rinder Never Revealed A Crime?

HelluvaHoax!

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Emma said:
".....Mike is only human. If you had a second chance at life, and decided to do good with it, and had a beautiful wife & kids, and there was no one chasing you trying to arrest you, why would you undo all of that if you were guilty? (I'm not saying he is or isn't guilty)."


Excellent point.

Add to that, why wouldn't someone originate their own "immunity deal" if they could? By that I mean, just because the FBI, Justice Dept or D.A. doesn't formally negotiate an immunity deal, why can't someone do it on their own behalf? Why does Mike need anyone else's signature on a piece of "get out of jail" card if he can do it for himself by simply not self-incriminating.

There is no metric in use that uniformly issues or denies "IMMUNITY DEALS". Example: Sammy the Bull Gravano got an immunity deal and witness protection status even AFTER HE ADMITTED TO COMMITTING 19 MURDERS!

They let serial killers walk if they think they can go after a bigger fish.

Mike was a cult member like everyone else. He was just extremely competent so he got promoted. Is anyone here trying to sell the idea that while they were on the Bridge they would have refused to meet with The Commodore--if his messengers showed up one day at your org, your work or your home and commanded you:​

"L. Ron Hubbard has requested you come to meet with him
for a special project that he says he would really like
your help on. Ron chose you and hopes you will
honor this simple request, based on keeping
your exchange in with the being who has
given you the tech to secure your eternity!"


I don't think anyone would have refused such a statusy & amazing opportunity. At least you would go there to see what little favor the GodFounder was going to ask of you.

If you went there to find out what it was, there was about a 99% chance you would have done whatever you were asked, because it was the greatest good to save mankind, save yourself and save the planet and salvage the sector.

So, Mike Rinder was valuable. So he did shit.

We all did shit. So what? That's what cult members do, to others and themselves.

How about the "innocent" sign maker in Germany in the early 1940s. He certainly had nothing to do with concentration camps. He only made the signs with the arrows that pointed to where to board the trains. Not guilty right?

How about the truck drivers that merely delivered Zklon B canisters filled with cynanide? He wasn't guilty too, right?

How about 99% of Scientologists who disseminated to wogs and got at least one (1) on the bridge. That's not a "crime" right? He isn't scamming people to pay for a fraud, right? Even though he knows he has never seen any Clear or OT with any "power", he's still not guilty of a crime, right? LOL

The gray areas are so vast, I don't really know how anyone like Alanzo can point the finger at someone like Rinder who did more good with a single 1 hour episode of "THE AFTERMATH" than he did in his entire Scientology Critic career.

MY VIEW: If someone is ALREADY OUT of the cult and exposing the criminal fraud, assaults, kidnapping and other terrorist fair game actions, they're a good guy. They are exposing themselves to great personal risk from the cult's thug operations in order to reveal the truth. Same for never-ins like Tony Ortega. Yet THESE courageous souls are the ones that Alanzo singles out and continues to attack. And a multitude of other whistleblowers as well, including but not limited to Karen de la Carierre, Jeffrey Augustine, Chris Shelton, and dozens more.

Alanzo wants to continue the cult gimmick "What Are Your Crimes?!"

He doesn't seem to know that everyone is played out on that incredibly stupid gimmick and it's now a bad joke. By doing so, Alanzo makes HIMSELF the punchline to a bad cult joke.

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Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Mike was a cult member like everyone else. He was just extremely competent so he got promoted. Anyone here trying to sell the idea that while they were on the Bridge they would have refused to meet with The Commodore if his messengers showed up one day at your org, your work or your home and told you:

"L. Ron Hubbard has requested you come to meet with him
for a special project that he says he would really like
your help on. Ron chose you and hopes you will
honor this simple request, based on keeping
your exchange in with the being who has
given you the tech to secure your eternity!"

I don't think anyone would have refused such a statusy & amazing opportunity. At least you would go there to see what little favor the GodFounder was going to ask of you.

If you went there to find out what it was, there was about a 99% chance you would have done whatever you were asked, because it was the greatest good to save mankind, save yourself and save the planet and salvage the sector.​
I would have. I hate to admit it. But I would have.

Being human has its downside! We crave status. We crave acceptance. We still have Viking blood.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
When both Mike and Marty came public I was really angry at both of them for "what they did" and they suddenly were regarded as heros no matter what they "did" and accusing Miscavitch of being the devil...(I have in mind the fishing session..)

But a lot of water has passed under the bridge and they both made decisions and choices. Regarding Mike he kept working on exposing the cult abuses and spoke about how he feels about his wrongdoings. He has help many for them suing COS.

He will have to live the rest of his life with his OSA past and whatever wrong he did. I believe he is doing all a being can do To "atone"

What are you trying to heal within your own mind (life) In keeping going after a man who tries to do his very best????
 
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HelluvaHoax!

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Most (if not all) of the people who have done or are doing something to expose the cult of scientology with facts and truth have been attacked by you @Alanzo ... why is that?

It has always appeared (to me) that you are jealous because nothing you have tried to do has had any effect ... am I wrong and if so, how?
I have often wondered the same thing.

By the way, I remember many "crusades" Alanzo went on during his tumultuous time on the board. I just ignored it, wondering why the hell someone (I didn't know him) was so aggressively grandstanding for attention. It seemed bizarre and I wondered for my first few years here if there was some "inside joke" i was not getting as to why people played along.

But then after I saw too many of those crusades, I came to the conclusion that he was simply not happy unless he was the center of attention-----any way he could get it, even by saying outrageous things to trigger and demand attention. I had heard of Attention Deficit Disorder but that was the first time I had ever encountered Attention Deficit Demand! lol

Okay, let me cut to the point. Then one day he said something I thought MUST have been a joke. It wasn't.

He suddenly (out of the blue) began chastising others and calling Scientology "MY RELIGION". And he was angry that others were doing bad things to "his religion". It was stunningly stupid and I had no clue whatsoever what was going on. How does a hard critic suddenly "flip" and begin affectionately promoting the cult as "my religion"? How inexplicably dumb, random and absurd is that? LOL.

He never would answer WTH he was talking about.

I guess the next bunch of years he demonstrated it by launching countless trolling attacks against critics of the Scientology "religion".

I admit I am entirely clueless what his motivation for that is.

If i had to guess, I would assume it's just a gimmick that he stumbled on that got him a sudden amount of ATTENTION. So that became his "successful action".

I doubt he is clever enough to get paid by the cult for attacking SP critics and whistleblowers. But if he did get any money for shattering cult enemies, they should demand an immediate refund! LOL
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I would have. I hate to admit it. But I would have.

Being human has its downside! We crave status. We crave acceptance. We still have Viking blood.
Aha, an honest person! LOL

I regret to say---I would have too. Otherwise, what was the point of dedicating my (then) life to Hubbard's Bridge?

I'd like to meet someone who (in those days) was fully on the Bridge who wouldn't have considered it the HONOR OF A LIFETIME if the Commodore hand picked THEM for a mission.

Creepy-Cringey shit, ain't it? LOL
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I have often wondered the same thing.

By the way, I remember many "crusades" Alanzo went on during his tumultuous time on the board. I just ignored it, wondering why the hell someone (I didn't know him) was so aggressively grandstanding for attention. It seemed bizarre and I wondered for my first few years here if there was some "inside joke" i was not getting as to why people played along.

But then after I saw too many of those crusades, I came to the conclusion that he was simply not happy unless he was the center of attention-----any way he could get it, even by saying outrageous things to trigger and demand attention. I had heard of Attention Deficit Disorder but that was the first time I had ever encountered Attention Deficit Demand! lol

Okay, let me cut to the point. Then one day he said something I thought MUST have been a joke. It wasn't.

He suddenly (out of the blue) began chastising others and calling Scientology "MY RELIGION". And he was angry that others were doing bad things to "his religion". It was stunningly stupid and I had no clue whatsoever what was going on. How does a hard critic suddenly "flip" and begin affectionately promoting the cult as "my religion"? How inexplicably dumb, random and absurd is that? LOL.

He never would answer WTH he was talking about.

I guess the next bunch of years he demonstrated it by launching countless trolling attacks against critics of the Scientology "religion".

I admit I am entirely clues what reason he has for it.

If i Had to guess, I would assume it's just a gimmick that he stumbled on that got him a sudden amount of ATTENTION. So that became his "successful action".

I doubt he is clever enough to get paid by the cult for attacking SP critics and whistleblowers. But if he did get any money for shattering cult enemies, they should demand an immediate refund! LOL

I've always tried to be fair to people when they are being weird ... I figured it's the internet and things that are going on behind the scenes are not always apparent, emotions can run high even among the best of us and so on and the last thing I ever wanted was for it to become us (ESMB) against ..... (fill in the name) for the world to see. It just seems so ridiculous, unnecessary and cringeworthy.

Marty (obviously) comes straight to mind when I mention people being weird but Alanzo, Zinj and a few freezoners from back in the day also joined in the game of trying to wreck ESMB with a pack of total lies. There is a history of people turning against friends for no apparent reason and causing upset and doing it on a board (here) where people were often already feeling fragile due to just having escaped the cofs.


It's nasty.

I have finally decided that if adults are stupid enough to create that kind of drama more than once (and the people I have mentioned have done that as we all know) then they don't need me trying to 'see the positive side' on their behalf.


They can fix their own mess ... or not.
 

HelluvaHoax!

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At the risk of repeating, I just noticed the title of this thread again. . .

WTF. It's 2019 and someone is still demanding to know another person's "CRIMES"?!

Let's ask the original poster how to answer that. Hey Alanzo----

What are your crimes?

And why have you never revealed a crime?


Let's see how the <deleted> likes being run on his own standard commands.

I'll admit I am not Clear, so I don't have perfect recall. Can someone remind me when the Pope appointed Alanzo to the post of EXALTED GRAND INQUISITOR to exact confessions and assign punishment to the guilty?

I am sure he must be very qualified to mete out torture for "blasphemy" or "heretical propositions" that differ from his infallible opinions.


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HelluvaHoax!

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I wish I had. I wish tempers had not been as inflamed. I wish we were all a little calmer. It was a turbulent time that I'm glad is over.

I just want to see an exchange of ideas. I guess I'm curious as to whether my original purpose of the board is still relevant, or if ESMB has become a place where ideas cannot be exchanged and challenged without insults. Maybe I live in the clouds.
Why don't you talk to Alanzo about that.

I am not aware of ANY other "insult problems" on this board for a very long time. It began with Alanzo doing his troll bait gimmicks. The moment someone disagreed with him (Churchill), very predictably he began to ramp up the rhetoric by calling him "grandpa" in a nasty derogatory way.

Then he holds up the lovely Lotus as an example of some imagined cult mental illness or whatever he calls it.

Then the troll doubled down on calling me the board's "biggest asshole" (which is actually funny projection to me because that is how 99.999% of the board members feel about him). Oh well, such are the challenges of the Dunning Kruger Effect, LOL.

FACT: Nobody was insulting anybody until the troll arrived.

QUESTION: Why is that fact hard to understand again?

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The_Fixer

Class Clown
So where do we get off telling someone that they need to do something to satisfy us and what we believe?

As far as I'm concerned, it is only up to them to make that decision, not us.

He has his own reasons for what he does or will do and it's none of our business. As long as he has stopped with hurting others, give him the space to figure it out.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Why don't you talk to Alanzo about that.

I am not aware of ANY other "insult problems" on this board for a very long time. It began with Alanzo doing his troll bait gimmicks. The moment someone disagreed with him (Churchill), very predictably he began to ramp up the rhetoric by calling him "grandpa" in a nasty derogatory way.

Then he holds up the lovely Lotus as an example of some imagined cult mental illness or whatever he calls it.

Then the troll doubled down on calling me the board's "biggest asshole" (which is actually funny projection to me because that is how 99.999% of the board members feel about him). Oh well, such are the challenges of the Dunning Kruger Effect, LOL.

FACT: Nobody was insulting anybody until the troll arrived.

QUESTION: Why is that fact hard to understand again?

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You're probably right about the insults. There have been no insults because there has been no robust discussion! And, if I recall correctly, it was Churchill who started with the name calling.

He is a troll and a shit stirrer.

Until then it was all fine. "Grandpa" seems a little tame actually after being called a troll and a shit stirrer.

As for what he said to Lotus:

This is a great example of the socially constructed nightmare that the Anti-Cult/Anti-Scientology mindset instills in its membership.

Over the top exaggerations, all or nothing thinking, and run away hysteria.

Nowhere did he suggest she had any sort of mental illness.

Oh and as for the asshole thing...It was YOU who brought that up, not him.

Why don't you just put him on ignore. If he starts trying to take over your mantel as top dog alpha male, I'll ban him. Ok?
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I'd like to meet someone who (in those days) was fully on the Bridge who wouldn't have considered it the HONOR OF A LIFETIME if the Commodore hand picked THEM for a mission.

Creepy-Cringey shit, ain't it? LOL
There was a time when I was such a true believer that, if LRH asked, I would have done anything he said. Anything at all.

Fortunately for me, I was not asked.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

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You're probably right about the insults. There have been no insults because there has been no robust discussion! And, if I
....
Why don't you just put him on ignore. If he starts trying to take over your mantel as top dog alpha male, I'll ban him. Ok?
I never put anyone on ignore. Never thought of it. Because if i wanted to ignore the discussion i would not log on to a discussion board.

Your comment about the board "having no robust discussion" is absurd. What are people doing here talking to each other these past years? What do you mean by robust discussion, disagreement? There's lots of that too. You mean you wish to change the octane of the disagreement---so that it's more heated? But you don't want insults? LOL Nice theory there Emma. When you mixed a higher octane in previous years the moderators were worked to death policing all the overheated discussions.

What is it exactly you want people to debate that they have not already or are not currently debating? From your previous comments about the Trump thread, I surmise that you are not happy that there are not enough progressives and/or socialists or Trump haters? Is that your wish? If so why don't YOU post something that makes a robust discussion. Are you importing Alanzo--<deleted>-- to make people's conversation better here? Good luck with that social engineering! LOL

About your last comment regarding banning Alanzo if he "tries to take over my mantel as top dog alpha male"---was that supposed to be a snide insult?

Hey, Emma, are we having a robust enough discussion now to make you happy? LOL
 
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Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I never put anyone on ignore. Never thought of it. Because if i wanted to ignore the discussion i would not log on to a discussion board.

Your comment about the board "having no robust discussion" is absurd. What are people doing here talking to each other these past years? What do you mean by robust discussion, disagreement? There's lots of that too. You mean you wish to change the octane of the disagreement---so that it's more heated? But you don't want insults? LOL Nice theory there Emma. When you mixed a higher octane in previous years the moderators were worked to death policing all the overheated discussions.

What is it exactly you want people to debate that they have not already or are not currently debating? From your previous comments about the Trump thread, I surmise that you are not happy that there are not enough progressives and/or socialists or Trump haters? Is that your wish? If so why don't YOU post something that makes a robust discussion. Are you importing Alanzo to make people's conversation better here? Good luck with that social engineering! LOL

About your last comment regarding banning Alanzo if he "tries to take over my mantel as top dog alpha male"---was that supposed to be a snide insult?

Hey, Emma, are we having a robust enough discussion now to make you happy? LOL
Yes I think we are having a robust discussion HH. I'm happy. Thank you.:carryon:
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I'm sure many readers of your post spotted it the same as I did, but they're quite happy to just let it be, no one's going to get hurt. It takes mr smartypants strativarius to open his big mouth. But look at it this way, you'll probably never ever make the same mistake again, so there's my justification for being such a bleedin' pedant (and gnashnab). :biggrin:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Emma wrote:

Alright, I'll bite.

Depends on your definition of "crimes". Moral crimes? Of course. Thousands of them. Actual law breaking crimes? Well that's quite a curly question. If you accuse Miscavige of criminality, then how can you say that Mike & Marty are blameless? (unless of course you believe that DM committed all his crimes after Mike & Marty left). So if Mike & Marty committed no crimes when they were in, and they were DMs henchmen, then I guess DM committed no crimes either.
I'm not saying 'moral crimes'.

I'm saying criminal activity, illegal acts that are against the law. Felonies.

As I've watched for the last 20 years, Dave eats civil suits for lunch. He MUCH prefers a civil suit over a criminal subpoena. He has an endless budget and some of the best attorneys in the world who have been working for him, and advising him, for decades.

Civil suits are only about money. They do not carry criminal penalties. You can't go to jail for a civil suit.

A criminal subpoena is very different. Criminal indictments and subpoenae bring raids, confiscations, forensic accounting and the real power to make real change to the upper structure of the Church of Scientology. If you have enough money, civil suits can never do that.

Law enforcement CAN NOT ACT unless there is probable cause of a crime - a real illegal act.

After all these many years we've all been watching, and all these years that Mike has been out blogging everyday and running 3 seasons of a TV show:

David Miscavige is still in power, still doing whatever he wants to Scientologists.

Why? Because everyone is entranced and distracted by the moral outrages, the lawsuits, disconnection.

No one is seeking what will really take down Dave: the exposure of felonies.

My question for you is....

Why, after all this time, do you still have such a hard on for Mike Rinder?
Because Mike Rinder was CO OSA for David Miscavige for 22 years.

IF there are crimes to expose, he knows them.

As CO OSA, when Danny Masterson, a Scientology Celeb on a hit TV show, had his ex-girlfriends and other women reporting to the Church that they had been raped, it would have fallen to Mike Rinder, as CO OSA, to protect the Church and handle that "flap".

And when Dave came to Mike and wanted to know what he was dong to protect the Church, Mike was very unlikely to be able to say "Jeez Dave, I don't know. It's all so compartmentalized! I'm just the former spokesman!"

The Danny Masterson felony rape accusation are just one example. There are many others.

So no, this isn't Alanzo chanting "WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES??"

This is Alanzo having watched this impotent critic shit-show for over 20 years, while David Miscavige is still in power, still doing whatever he wants to Scientologists.

That's why I have such a hard-on for Mike Rinder.

When it comes to crimes, he is a HOLE where a critic should be.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
And again, let me re-iterate:

I do not know why Mike Rinder has never revealed a crime in the 11 years he's been out, blogging everyday and 3 seasons of a TV show - despite running OSA for 22 years.

I just know that he has not.

So that's why I opened this thread and listed out all the possible hypotheses (ways of explaining what we are seeing) that I was aware of .

BigBlue added to my knowledge of this with a hypothesis I'd never heard, the "LAYING THE GROUNDWORK" Hypothesis: Mike knew the situation was not ready to have criminal acts revealed by the Church of Scientology, and he has been laying the groundwork all this time to finally reveal the crimes.

I appreciate those who have contributed to this discussion and did not try to shut it down. I'll get to each on-topic response later today.
 
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