WHY HUBBARD NEVER CLAIMED OT FEATS

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
This thread is to address a question that I have been asked .

Gib gave me a clue on this and so have several others.

Some have given a few stories of hub claiming OT powers in small meetings but never as a significant part of official doctrine and wondered , why ?

Well I think I know the answer.

Gib pointed out that hub studied rhetoric in college under Dean William Allen Wilbur .

William Allen Wilbur (1864-1945) had a major impact on the George Washington University in the early 1900s. He served as Dean of the Columbian Academy (which had been the Preparatory Department of the university since 1821) from 1895-1897, was Professor of English from 1897-1935, Dean of the Columbian College from 1904-28, and Provost of the university from 1928-35, when he retired. His students carried away with them knowledge of his philosophy of tolerance and selflessness as well as a knowledge of rhetoric and literature.

His lectures for freshmen were based on a text he wrote himself, "English Rhetoric." The prior two paragraphs are from George Washington University's own website.

Further proof is found at L Ron Hubbard Humanitarian ( of all places ) :http://education.lronhubbard.org/page17.htm

That site has a letter claimed to be written by Hub himself TO the Dean .


Okay , so hopefully it is established that Hub studied rhetoric in college and knew how it worked BEFORE the creation of Dianetics and Scientology.

From Rhetoric I would like to introduce some ideas. From the website Literary Devices Definitions and Examples:

Evidence is a type of literary device that appears in different categories of essays and theses in the form of paraphrase and quotations. It is presented to persuade the readers and used with powerful arguments in the texts or essays. It is factual information that helps the reader reach a conclusion and form an opinion about something. Evidence is given in research work or is quoted in essays and thesis statements but is paraphrased by the writer. If it is given as it is, then it is quoted properly within quotation marks.


In rhetoric, when a person makes a claim or presents an argument, he needs to present evidence in support of his claim and argument in order to establish the veracity and authenticity of his claim or argument. If there is no evidence, the claim stands quashed. The same is true with a case in law where a case or litigation is quashed, if there is no evidence to support the claim. However, literary evidence is only used in literature, essays and research papers for persuasion and convincing purposes.

Inference is a literary device used commonly in literature and in daily life where logical deductions are made based on premises assumed to be true. Another definition of inference suggests that it is rational but non-logical, which means that through the observation of facts presented in a particular pattern, one ultimately sees different or new interpretations and perspectives.


Induction is known as a conclusion reached through reasoning. An inductive statement is derived using facts and instances which lead to the formation of a general opinion. Though all the facts upon which the conclusion is based are true, there is still a chance of the conclusion reached being false. This type of reasoning goes from specific facts to a general statement.


An inductive statement is of two types; a strong inductive statement or a weak inductive statement. It depends on its authenticity. A strong statement has the possibility of being false, but it is very unlikely. There is a very high probability that it is true. When it comes to weak statements, they have conclusions which are very unlikely to be true and the reasons are weak enough showing that the conclusion is not probable. It is not possible to measure the strength of a statement, but it is possible to measure it in degrees. For a statement to be strong, it should be more probable when compared to being improbable and should have a strong factual ground on which it is based.End quotes.


Now , keeping this in mind I want to take a quote from Scientological Critical Information Directory:

With his book, Dianetics, a best-seller, Ron Hubbard was America's new guru. In August 1950, at a lecture hall in Los Angeles he presented to a crowd of 6,000 the first person to be what he called a 'clear'. She was a student called Sonya Bianca. As a clear, she was supposed to have total recall.



JEAN COX: "Various members of the audience called questions at her. Could she remember what was said on page 217 of her physics textbook? She couldn't. Could she remember what she had for breakfast on the morning of August 17, 1946? She couldn't. Then various people called out for Hubbard to turn his back on her and see if she could remember the colour of his tie. She couldn't. At that moment, the whole business sort of collapsed. People started leaving the auditorium."
Suddenly Hubbard was in trouble. He was accused of being a con-man and Dianetics a form of hypnotism., a technique at which he was so expert. End quote.


See , he TRIED proving a claim and found out as many con men before him that it is very , very hard to put out a bold claim to OUTSIDERS you do not control and let them examine it directly.

He could hypnotize Dianeticists and Scientologists and knew the unconvinced kind of remove themselves - they stop paying if nothing else.

So , for those IN he had safeguards.

But , after the Sonya Bianca disaster and people abandoning him he combined that with his knowledge from rhetoric to learn an important lesson : NEVER make a direct claim IN WRITNG as to HIS OWN OT abilities !

It would be discovered by outsiders and used to discredit him when he could not on command reproduce it !

He would violate his OWN first rule as he did with Sonya Bianca : never get caught !


So , he used his rhetorical skill to find a way around it : IMPLICATION .


Simply believers would by implication REASON that Hub had astounding powers and more importantly inhuman sanity, intelligence and judgement.

And non-believers would not get the implication , as they did not buy the foundation you must agree with to be led to the conclusion .










I will tell you it is a way he used to present info WITHOUT it being inspected directly.


For example as he talks on tapes of " researching " OT levels Scientologists ASSUME he regained OT powers WITHOUT PROOF !

They use THEIR OWN MINDS to " reach " that conclusion ! Not realizing they are guided the whole time .

Another great one is that you quickly learn a series of " facts " in Dianetics .

First that hub cleared himself.

Second that a clear is superior to any preclear or abberrated person .

Third that a preclear is lessened in many , many ways by abberation both from their apparent status AND in comparison to the superior clear.

Okay , so what you are reading BY IMPLICATION EVERY time you read about a preclear or abberration is that Hub is SUPERIOR to EVERYONE else in EVERY possible way !

AND if you found a new philosophy or science that was based on some guy you never heard of coming right out and saying over and over - I am smarter , saner , more aware and capable and deserve more and far better rights than EVERYONE else you would walk away !

See , that is what Hub does - plant the seed for YOU to conclude that HE is better , saner , smarter by buying into his fake claims as a CONCLUSION that is inescapable ONLY once you believe the parts that make the whole.

He knew the whole lie was unpalatable at first so he PERSUADES you to take on a kind of puzzle that leads YOU to put the parts together HIS way and think it is your own conclusion when you get there !

See , after Sonya's disaster he just stuck with the tried and true method of having complex circular logic - Dianetics works because it cured his blindness and injuries and you know it cured his injuries since he was able to come up with it since it works he can clear people and since he can clear people his claims about the reactive mind must be true and his claims about clear and so he as a clear must be smarter and saner than the rest of us and we must be far crazier than we thought and have poorer judgement and on and on it goes !

It comes back to Tommy Davis famous quote from the New Yorker story : if it was true that Hubbard had not been injured, then “the injuries that he handled by the use of Dianetics procedures were never handled, because they were injuries that never existed; therefore, Dianetics is based on a lie; therefore, Scientology is based on a lie. End quote .

See , Hub KNEW he could INDUCE circular logic BIT BY BIT to support ludicrous or offensive claims and acts .

See , Tommy could not FATHOM Dianetics and Scientology as fraud so any needed " facts " to support them HAVE to be " true " !:duh:


Talk about cognitive dissonance being used against someone to trap their own mind !


That is why in my opinion Hub learned he simply had to use implication to have the minds of his victims do the convincing FOR him !


It makes a person SLOWLY on a subconscious level work out as conclusions the IMPLANTS Hub needs swallowed and makes the victim CERTAIN they are not being persuaded - after all they KNOW these are their own conclusions !






It also uses a trick that writers have long used. Stephen king is one of the very most successful writers of all time with a reported three hundred fifty million copies of his works sold ! That is a lot of books !

He has had trouble with many works being adapted and found to lack the feel of the books.

It was explored and found that for many key characters he would only use less than a dozen words to describe their appearance and have the AUDIENCE create the rest with the AUDIENCE"S imagination !

For Carrie he had two sentences describing her ! For Randall Flag he barely mentions him - and has the reader create him in their own mind - making the reader a co-creator of the ideas and more invested than if King thoroughly describes him .


It is also used by director's to induce HORROR - by NOT showing gruesome killings - just IMPLYING them with cutting away when the axeor knife or gun is used to MAKE the audience crete the terror for themself.


It was used in old films to heighten fear and some audiences find this more frightening than being shown ANYTHING .

Hitchcock used it at times . It also has an application in ...other types of stimulating an...audience .

Sometimes a man will swear a woman he has only seen clothed is more desirable than any he sees naked - I believe it is due to IMPLICATION being stronger than reality . ( at least in SOME cases in some minds )






There is ANOTHER benefit to hub's method that I will try to explain with another example of Hub using implication and KNOWING it .

The famous tape in which hub discusses a person claiming in a session to be the anti-Christ : Hub says well then ask him who does he think I am ?

Well , this has different implications to different people and is intended to : to a new raw person it means the PC must be whacked out to think he is the anti-Christ okay .

To a more experienced Scientologist they might think Hub deserves a higher status than a regular person - not man not YET god , okay .

To a fully devoted Scientologist they in awe may " KNOW " Hub is indeed God ! ( Yikes !!! )

And for an occultist or Satanist they will know Hub wants the crown for himself !

Now, I heard the tape AFTER exit counseling for about two hundred hours and realized that hub " secretly" was claiming the title for himself AND to Scientologists was claiming to be a benevolent demigod or god or God AND to non-Scientologists was claiming the PC claiming to be the antiChrist was off his rocker ALL with rhetoric turned to manipulate the audience ! It was a TRIPLE entendre !



I hope to have satisfactorily answered why hub never made the big claim due to a combination of factors and his methods of manipulation .


And to have pulled back another layer for you to examine how and why the influence persists so well : it was put in to be and stay hidden .
 
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Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I hope to have satisfactorily answered why hub never made the big claim due to a combination of factors and his methods of manipulation .


And to have pulled back another layer for you to examine how and why the influence persists so well : it was put in to be and stay hidden .

Please write an excruciatingly long post explaining in minute detail how come you're so much cleverer than us.

And don't forget the title in ALL CAPS so it stands out from the dross.

Paul
 

looker

Patron Meritorious
I vaguely remember a post could have been Face or Dart mentioned something about an attempt by Hubbard to impress the audience with his OTness and it failed.

From what I remember bout the story; They were on the ship docked somewhere in the Bahamas. Every day there was a ferry or boat that would cross the harbor at nearly the same time. Hisself was giving a lecture on some topic maybe OT perception and made a comment about the boat approaching outside.

Well just as luck would have it the boat was late and didn't arrive for quite some time. The class noticed resisted squirming in their seat and pretended to ignore the awkwardness, and Hisself just carried on with the rest of his lecture.

But it is a good question. Hisself for what I remember never did refer to his own OT abilities. OT abilities were always third person.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I vaguely remember a post could have been Face or Dart mentioned something about an attempt by Hubbard to impress the audience with his OTness and it failed.

Here you go:

Possibly this was my most embarrassing incident to do with LRH.

It occured on the Original Class VIII course, in Oct 1968.

We were docked in Corfu, a small Greek Island halfway between Greece and Italy.

Each night at 8.00 p.m. LRH gave a lecture.

We were in the main dining room which doubled as the lecture room. Behind LRH were the picture windows facing out to the docks across the way.

Thus there were an approx 300 of the upper level SO Staff and Class VIII students crammed into this room - facing Hubbard and Mary-Sue who sat alongside LRH - so except for LRH and MSH we all viewed the activities outside the windows.

Each night at around 8.30 pm there was a ferry from Corfu to Brindisi that would leave. It was very punctual. There was a lot of clanging and banging and the reving of engines and the ferry would come chugging past us - the sounds are probably still on the tapes.

Of course this pissed LRH off - he would turn and glare at the offending ferry boat.

Any way one night at the exact time there was the usual clanging and banging and the reving of engines the chugging past us noise.

LRH does not turn his head but stares straight us and proceeds to give us how he is exterior with full perceptics - and describes the ferry, etc. He was really puffed up with his ability to demonstrate his exterior with full perceptics.

The only problem was that night a tug boat towing a garbage scow was went past the windows.

We all witnessed it - the emperor was naked!!!

There was deathly silence in the room - the room went very solid. No one looked at another.

Later on only Fred Fairchild, Nev Chamberlin and I dare speak about it. But every staff member and future Class VIII were given a major withhold that night.

Alan

Paul
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Besides, L.Rum Hubturd did claim that he was on Venus, where he discovered an advanced civilization and was damn near run over by a freight train. He was also in the Van Allen Belt sometime, reporting it was warm, or hot.. I also recall him telling us all about numerous and wondrous civilizations and peoples in gaHHHlaxies a looong time ago and far far away. Looks like he had a remarkable OT recall..

:yes:

The Obscene Dog comes to mind: Hubbard satirizes his own scam, Scientology, for his loyal and devoted followers. They don't seem to get it.. They stayed his followers !

http://youtu.be/TbmFC48_vyg

Hubbard also told his devoted followers just what he thought of them, when he explained about the ancient civilization Arslycos, where useless people produced their asses off making useless boxes or something.. This right after he pontificated about the 'Ethics of Work' and that 'production is the basis of morale' and hundreds of pages of text like it.. Funny thing is that his devoted followers damn near swooned with delight over his wisdom and earth embracing goodness at BOTH these 'messages'.. They didn't catch on when he told 'em they were 'asslickers'.

:fighting:
 
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mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yeah , I heard the story of the OT perception of the ship ( or boat ) that backfired horribly .


I was specifically asked a different question and felt that my answer more fully covered possible explanations .:thumbsup:

I felt that the Sonia incident and info on rhetoric and Hub's study of it COULD flesh out his motivations and methods.


Really , there are several problems when writing posts on this stuff.


First , I do not know what others already know . When I started exit counseling I assumed that every - or nearly every- ex went through a near identical process of figuring out SOMETHING that prompted critical examination of outside info on the cult then rapidly ( within a couple months at most ) realized that Scientology is a total fraud and not workable at all and that Hub was a pathological liar and had no conscience and used mind control to fool people .

I assumed that would lead everyone to studying hypnosis , mind control , thought reform , NLP pathological liars , sociopaths , cognitive dissonance and restructuring , totalist groups - including cults and totalitarian governments and undue influence , the critical factor , persuasion , influence , recovery , critical and independent thinking , logical fallacies , skepticism , psychology and a variety of related topics within a few months of leaving the cult .

I thought there would be thousands of guys like Arnie Lerma and Jon Atack out here and they may be the cream of the crop - but there would be an abundant group or even movement to understand and expose the con and methods that make it up .

Look , I think Jon and Arnie are both top 1% IQ guys and that is not an insult to anybody else . They also have put in decades of homework .


We all have different aptitudes and they have intelligence far above average and can coordinate and recall info well above average as well .


I hope that does not inspire attacks or jealousy .


I just do not get ( aside from the extensive implantation and denial and dissociation and the crippling double bind and... oh I guess I do get why exes cannot look at the things I study ...dammit ) .


Okay , so the exes who extensively study and write on the topics I mentioned are very few and far between .


Well , I wish there were far more and they wrote and shared what they learned far more - both for themselves and others.

I am going to keep on and for those who find my posts too long - you can start breaking down the con better and writing your own posts !

Go for it ! I am not really a writer and have a paltry education and wasted twenty five years in a terrorist mind control cult as a deluded zealot for a dead madman so anybody should be able to do an equal or better job than me at slapping together these posts ! Knock yourself out !


See , I see a job that needs to be done and my critics strangely are not doing it but do not address THAT...

Odd, well anyway you know who I am and what I do so...

Thanks for all the support from the vast , vast majority of folks and for the very , very tiny minority...have a nice day .
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Please write an excruciatingly long post explaining in minute detail how come you're so much cleverer than us.

And don't forget the title in ALL CAPS so it stands out from the dross.

Paul

I know your frustration, Paul. For me, I have no interest in being told I need to be 'educated' by posts written by know-it-all newbies. ( know- best for the scientologists)

Perhaps just saying tl;dr would get the point across :coolwink:


Urban Dictionary on tl;dr :

tl;dr
Literally, "Too long; didn't read"

Said whenever a nerd makes a post that is too long to bother reading.
"omg you postwench. i can only say one thing in response - tl;dr"
"tl;dr...why dont you give up on your unabridged edition of War and Peace or at least stop posting it here?"
by DisgruntledJoe November 20, 2003



tl;dr
Traditionally, the phrase too long; didn't read (abbreviated tl;dr or simply tldr) has been used on the Internet as a reply to an excessively long statement. It indicates that the reader did not actually read the statement due to its undue length.[2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn't_read
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Please write an excruciatingly long post explaining in minute detail how come you're so much cleverer than us.

And don't forget the title in ALL CAPS so it stands out from the dross.

Paul

Or perhaps it's easy to miss the essence and point(s) of MB's series in that the feigning of altitude and vision is his reproduction of how it was when we came to be programmed in the first place. It's hammy and over the top at times but fun to go through the rabbit holes and their intricacies and see how what one finds might apply.
He is the Mocking Bird after all and he's mocking Ron and not anyone else unless that's who they are on some level.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Yeah , I heard the story of the OT perception of the ship ( or boat ) that backfired horribly .


I was specifically asked a different question and felt that my answer more fully covered possible explanations .:thumbsup:

I felt that the Sonia incident and info on rhetoric and Hub's study of it COULD flesh out his motivations and methods.


Really , there are several problems when writing posts on this stuff.


First , I do not know what others already know . When I started exit counseling I assumed that every - or nearly every- ex went through a near identical process of figuring out SOMETHING that prompted critical examination of outside info on the cult then rapidly ( within a couple months at most ) realized that Scientology is a total fraud and not workable at all and that Hub was a pathological liar and had no conscience and used mind control to fool people .

I assumed that would lead everyone to studying hypnosis , mind control , thought reform , NLP pathological liars , sociopaths , cognitive dissonance and restructuring , totalist groups - including cults and totalitarian governments and undue influence , the critical factor , persuasion , influence , recovery , critical and independent thinking , logical fallacies , skepticism , psychology and a variety of related topics within a few months of leaving the cult .

I thought there would be thousands of guys like Arnie Lerma and Jon Atack out here and they may be the cream of the crop - but there would be an abundant group or even movement to understand and expose the con and methods that make it up .

Look , I think Jon and Arnie are both top 1% IQ guys and that is not an insult to anybody else . They also have put in decades of homework .


We all have different aptitudes and they have intelligence far above average and can coordinate and recall info well above average as well .


I hope that does not inspire attacks or jealousy .


I just do not get ( aside from the extensive implantation and denial and dissociation and the crippling double bind and... oh I guess I do get why exes cannot look at the things I study ...dammit ) .


Okay , so the exes who extensively study and write on the topics I mentioned are very few and far between .


Well , I wish there were far more and they wrote and shared what they learned far more - both for themselves and others.

I am going to keep on and for those who find my posts too long - you can start breaking down the con better and writing your own posts !

Go for it ! I am not really a writer and have a paltry education and wasted twenty five years in a terrorist mind control cult as a deluded zealot for a dead madman so anybody should be able to do an equal or better job than me at slapping together these posts ! Knock yourself out !


See , I see a job that needs to be done and my critics strangely are not doing it but do not address THAT...

Odd, well anyway you know who I am and what I do so...

Thanks for all the support from the vast , vast majority of folks and for the very , very tiny minority...have a nice day .



Ere, this post is really just a pile of "covert ad hom" innit? (sorry, I'm a bit thick and you are ever so clever, so I thought I'd better arsk you, innit).

:biggrin:


Seriously MB, many of us just want to move on now and enjoy life but are still here because over many years we've built a wonderful bond and enjoy each other ... having said that, even when I was newly out I would have disliked your post-mortem style of posting.

I er, fell for someone called tubs hubbard's amateur "assistance" at working life out once before and found it be a waste of time and effort.

I understand that you have the need to do this (for yourself) but I will continue to do things my way and need no "eval" from you or anyone else to assist me along the way ... and I sincerely hope others do the same.

:whistling:
 
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Gib

Crusader

Ere, this post is really just a pile of "covert ad hom" innit? (sorry, I'm a bit thick and you are ever so clever, so I thought I'd better arsk you, innit).

:biggrin:


Seriously MB, many of us just want to move on now and enjoy life but are still here because over many years we've built a wonderful bond and enjoy each other ... having said that, even when I was newly out I would have disliked your post-mortem style of posting.

I er, fell for someone called tubs hubbard's amateur "assistance" at working life out once before and found it be a waste of time and effort.

I understand that you have the need to do this (for yourself) but I will continue to do things my way and need no "eval" from you or anyone else to assist me along the way ... and I sincerely hope others do the same.

:whistling:

Many of us are here now because we want to express the mind fuk of scientology and dianetics. And many of us are enjoying life because we are out of the mind fuk otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. Aye.

We are not being regged or hard sold by the COS/scientology anymore. LOL
 

Steelera87

New Member
Many of us are here now because we want to express the mind fuk of scientology and dianetics. And many of us are enjoying life because we are out of the mind fuk otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. Aye.

We are not being regged or hard sold by the COS/scientology anymore. LOL


Hahaha
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
"Seriously MB, many of us just want to move on now and enjoy life but are still here because over many years we've built a wonderful bond and enjoy each other ... having said that, even when I was newly out I would have disliked your post-mortem style of posting. "

So really! Someone finally admits to the lonely hearts, "clickism" that has been so vehemently denied by others when an accusation has been leveled of such in the past.
So, no discussions of the spiders webs twists and turn unless one pays due homage to your little band of former Sea Ogres that patrol the site so diligently?
What do you think of the "Cult Awareness Network" that was bought out by the Scilons after bankrupting it in the courts? Think they collect message boards too? No they wouldn't dare.....
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
"Seriously MB, many of us just want to move on now and enjoy life but are still here because over many years we've built a wonderful bond and enjoy each other ... having said that, even when I was newly out I would have disliked your post-mortem style of posting. "

So really! Someone finally admits to the lonely hearts, "clickism" that has been so vehemently denied by others when an accusation has been leveled of such in the past.
So, no discussions of the spiders webs twists and turn unless one pays due homage to your little band of former Sea Ogres that patrol the site so diligently?
What do you think of the "Cult Awareness Network" that was bought out by the Scilons after bankrupting it in the courts? Think they collect message boards too? No they wouldn't dare.....



If you're asking what I think of "OSA" and their sad antics the answer is I rarely give them a second thought unless I make an effort to ... I suppose (I'm making an effort now, lol) they're just [STRIKE]scientologists[/STRIKE] people busily wearing their "hats" for tubs hubbard and one day many of them will be here speaking of the past, the wasted years and telling us stories of how they really viewed us (ESMB) and our freedom ... and I'll welcome every single one of them with open arms.

We already have ex "OSA" members here as you would know and they're just normal, likeable people who were once caught up in the madness of tubs and his creepy cult.

I like to keep things simple after all the drama and gluey cultic games, life seems pretty uncomplicated to me unless I make it otherwise. I'm certainly not planning on spending the rest of my life feeling bitter about the past (though I admit to still having moments of breathtaking sadness) ... or looking over my virtual shoulder for some silly arse with a clipboard and a weird stare who actually believes he is "saving the planet".



:happydance:


 
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