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Suspended animation
Posted by Terril (above) in three consecutive posts.
Scientology is not purely evil. It does contain many
evil policies and statements. Also some good ones. More importantly it contains a psychotherapy which has much brilliance and usefulness. [YMMV]
COS is evil though most scientologists are not. It is led by
a sociopath who is destroying the subject. I now feel I
can judge what is worth taking from it and what is toxic in it.
I needed many years to evaluate the subject for myself.
Simultaneously spending 7 years protesting with anons and
also getting great personal gains from some of the upper levels.


Being OEC/FEBC I reject almost all I studied.


I studied all [apart from some confidential] policies
of COS. I have no further interest in this area and in fact
consider it as a whole pernicious.
:confused:

@Terril, were you always this difficult to understand ... or has this just happened since you left the cofs and joined the 'freezone' version of the madness?

You talk more contradictory rubbish than anyone I have ever known.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
The 'upper levels' are totally insane.

It's about time you stop using this forum to promote hubbards scientology.
No no no no
:bignono:

It appears that either there is something you didn't fully understand in the words ''upper levels''
or
You committed overts on the subject of ''upper levels''

:confused::questions:


I am trying to help :oops:
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Scientology is evil. Those who join, enter initially as idealistic, naive, and gullible, and yes, Terril, at a certain point, the indoctrination does take hold, and a self-reinforcing mechanism is created whereby the formerly idealistic, naive, and gullible individual undergoes a transformation, and becomes, as you have, someone who places great value on Hubbard's excretions aka a Scientologist.

Think of Scientology as you would a shit sandwich. In the beginning, only a very tiny amount of shit is mixed in to an otherwise normal sandwich. You might notice that it has an unusual aftertaste, but hey... there's meat and cheese, and tomato, and so you don't bother complaining to the chef. Besides, all the other diners are commenting on how delicious their sandwiches are.

Now, fast forward to 5, 10, 15 years later, and now, the chef makes your sandwich almost entirely out of shit, with maybe a thin slice of tomato, just for old-times sake. And the good, winning Scientologist scarfs it down, sending his compliments to the chef, as you so dutifully do.

Read the comments that people leave after you post stuff like this. Try to think about what they're trying to tell you. You receive a wide berth on ESMB because when you act as an apologist for evil, after so many years, the only logical conclusion is that you must be full of shit.
(Hope you used your demo kit and dictionary while reading this; you can skip the clay; I don't want to restimulate anything.)
Here is the precise part of it which generates the evil: the belief that Scientology is "the only way out", and that failure of Scientology would condemn you and all you love to an eternity of suffering.

Once you buy into that, then ANYTHING can be justified.

Get old people to hand over their entire retirement savings for Scientology? It's for the greater good.

Fair gaming of troublesome SPs? It's for the greater good.

Murder of those who might threaten "Mankind's only hope"? It's for the greater good.

Communism has resulted in the murder of somewhere around 100 million people, with the people doing the killing doing so because they were convinced that it was "for the greater good". If Scientology ever had gotten real political control over a region, do not think that they would not have indulged in liquidation of troublesome people.

I still think there is a real risk of tragedy if DM ever decides that he's cornered. Something like Jonestown.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Scientology is evil. Those who join, enter initially as idealistic, naive, and gullible, and yes, Terril, at a certain point, the indoctrination does take hold, and a self-reinforcing mechanism is created whereby the formerly idealistic, naive, and gullible individual undergoes a transformation, and becomes, as you have, someone who places great value on Hubbard's excretions aka a Scientologist.

Think of Scientology as you would a shit sandwich. In the beginning, only a very tiny amount of shit is mixed in to an otherwise normal sandwich. You might notice that it has an unusual aftertaste, but hey... there's meat and cheese, and tomato, and so you don't bother complaining to the chef. Besides, all the other diners are commenting on how delicious their sandwiches are.

Now, fast forward to 5, 10, 15 years later, and now, the chef makes your sandwich almost entirely out of shit, with maybe a thin slice of tomato, just for old-times sake. And the good, winning Scientologist scarfs it down, sending his compliments to the chef, as you so dutifully do.

Read the comments that people leave after you post stuff like this. Try to think about what they're trying to tell you. You receive a wide berth on ESMB because when you act as an apologist for evil, after so many years, the only logical conclusion is that you must be full of shit.
(Hope you used your demo kit and dictionary while reading this; you can skip the clay; I don't want to restimulate anything.)
I admit to formerly idealistic, but not naive, and
gullible. After all I left and protested for many years and protested in posts even longer. So I like some of the tech
and had great wins doing it. I probably cost CO$ more
dollars than almost all people here. I steered those interested
away from CO$.

I am not an apologist for evil.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I admit to formerly idealistic, but not naive, and
gullible. After all I left and protested for many years and protested in posts even longer. So I like some of the tech
and had great wins doing it. I probably cost CO$ more
dollars than almost all people here. I steered those interested
away from CO$.

I am not an apologist for evil.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
You never look directly at the massive suffering that Hubbard, by his own hand, caused; always choosing instead to focus on your wins.
In my book, that's acting as an apologist for evil. We've all done it, Terril.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
Terrill Park has not responded to my sincere question about why he insists on defending Scientology...

"Can communicate freely" ?

That is a flunk!
 

pteronotropis1

New Member
Scientology is not purely evil. It does contain many
evil policies and statements. Also some good ones. More importantly it contains a psychotherapy which has much brilliance and usefulness. [YMMV]

COS is evil though most scientologists are not. It is led by
a sociopath who is destroying the subject. I now feel I
can judge what is worth taking from it and what is toxic in it.
I needed many years to evaluate the subject for myself.
Simultaneously spending 7 years protesting with anons and
also getting great personal gains from some of the upper levels.
I've noticed that most of what their tv channel says sounds good,but also from what Leah and other former members say they don't take their own good advice.Saying they support human rights while violating them and similar things.War is peace,love is hate,Orwell was right.
 

Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
The problem, and it’s not unique to Terril, to put it bluntly, is that the mental illness that Scientology invariably induces (in the form of deeply delusional thinking) simply isn’t a “win” to be celebrated. Terril fails to grasp this obvious point.

Scientology, like many cults, is capable of producing a “peak experience” which sticks people to it. It certainly did with me.
Whatever sublime realization or transformation one believes himself to have experienced is analogous to the very first “high” that a drug user experiences,(also a peak experience) and thereafter chases in hope of replicating it. For many of us the dissociative condition that Scientology calls “exteriorization” was central to the peak experience that first stuck us to the subject.

Hubbard was a madman, and Scientology is the profoundly evil and destructive trap he built. Neither should be celebrated.
The human wreckage and suffering that Hubbard left in his wake, beginning prior to 1950 and continuing even after his death up to today is tragic, one’s ‘peak experience’ notwithstanding.
 
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George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
I admit to formerly idealistic, but not naive, and
gullible. After all I left and protested for many years and protested in posts even longer. So I like some of the tech
and had great wins doing it. I probably cost CO$ more
dollars than almost all people here. I steered those interested
away from CO$.

I am not an apologist for evil.
You believe that it contains a psychotherapy which has much brilliance and usefulness. That's a tad bit naïve and gullible but that belongs to you. On the other hand attempting to convince people that are still under the influence of scientology that it contains a psychotherapy which has much brilliance and usefulness doesn't belong to you. That is a part of the evil of scientology, the idea that you have the right to and are right to reinforce those beliefs onto people that have been lied to for their entire scientology voyage.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
I've noticed that most of what their tv channel says sounds good,but also from what Leah and other former members say they don't take their own good advice.Saying they support human rights while violating them and similar things.War is peace,love is hate,Orwell was right.
scientology will always, always, always put a positive spin on everything about scientology. They have not ever been wrong and they cannot ever be wrong. Just ask them, (but don't ever give them any money or your address and phone number).
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I think what Terril is trying to say is that Divs 4 and 5 and the Red Vols are all of the "good" in Scientology while the rest of the Divs are the Green Vols and all of the "bad".

This gets translated into Tech good, management bad...Ron good, Miscavige bad. That type of think.

I personally think Hubbard had little to do with the Red Vols with the majority of their content researched and discovered by others. Hubbard served as a catalyst and then immediately copyrighted the content and twisted it to manipulate, entrap and extort.

The Green Vols, the real vile stuff, that is pure Hubbard with no one else involved. This is the material that places people completely at effect of Hubbard's control.

Get out of the trap, Terril!
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Whatever sublime realization or transformation one believes himself to have experienced is analogous to the very first “high” that a drug user experiences,(also a peak experience) and thereafter chases in hope of replicating it. For many of us the dissociative condition that Scientology calls “exteriorization” was central to the peak experience that first stuck us to the subject.

Hubbard was a madman, and Scientology is the profoundly evil and destructive trap he built. Neither should be celebrated.
The human wreckage and suffering that Hubbard left in his wake, beginning prior to 1950 and continuing even after his death up to today is tragic, one’s ‘peak experience’ notwithstanding.
I've had a similar observation. What Scientology processes do, is produce a euphoric state. The subject will, over time, want to keep attaining that euphoric state. There are some similarities between a Scn and a junky.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Everything that Scientology says is a lie, implied or implicit. Absolutely none of Hubbard's claims of results are true. None of the "Abilities Gained" on the Grade Chart are true.

Scientologists do claim to "feel better", "more aware", "better" -- and, as in any faith-based belief system, that is likely true for them. The implication that such "gains" are the guaranteed results from Scientology is false.

This is NOT true. ALL of the abilities up to Clear are attainable. They are attained once a "being" leaves Scientology and Hubbard in the dust.

Here's the EPs of leaving Scientology!

CLEAR A being who no longer has his reactive mind
SOLO Freedom from dramatization and return of powers to act on own determinism
GRADE 4 (Abilities) Moving out of fixed conditions and gaining abilities to do new things
GRADE 3 (Upsets) Freedom from the upsets of the past and ability to face the future
GRADE 2 (Overts and Withholds) Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life
GRADE 1 (Problems) Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish
GRADE 0 (Communication) Ability to communicate freely with anyone on any subject
DIANETICS A healthy and happy human being
ARC STRAIGHTWIRE Knows he/she won't get any worse
OBJECTIVES In present time and able to control and put order in the environment

You see...once you leave the 1950s UFO cult of Scientology/Dianetics you are in present time, not 1950, and able to control and put order in the environment without running to some Tech Vol to clean windows, for example. You know once you leave Scientology that you won't get any worse and you are now a healthy and happy human being with the ability to freely communicate with anyone on any subject without the worry of KRs, "ethics" or "entheta" things to avoid.

You'll have the ability to recognize the source of problems, Scientology, and make them vanish by having left Scientology and you'll have relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life brought about by your involvement in and with Scientology.

You'll have freedom from the upsets of the past involvement with Scientology and ability to face the future without Scientology by moving out of Scientology's fixed conditions and gaining abilities to do new things away from and out of Scientology.

You'll have the freedom from the Scientology dramatization and return of powers to act on your own determinism...not Hubbard's.

You will be a being who no longer has his reactive mind...that self-imposed prison called Scientology.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I've had a similar observation. What Scientology processes do, is produce a euphoric state. The subject will, over time, want to keep attaining that euphoric state. There are some similarities between a Scn and a junky.
HellYeah!

Pusher: 8C-er
High: Keyed Out
Freaked Out: Keyed In
Junkie: Junk-Science-ie
Overdose: Overrun
Bummer: Hill 10
Busted: Busted
Hallucination: Knowingness
Shooting up heroin: Shooting up the Bridge
Needle-induced-High: Needle-induced-High (floating needle)
.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I've noticed that most of what their tv channel says sounds good,but also from what Leah and other former members say they don't take their own good advice.Saying they support human rights while violating them and similar things.War is peace,love is hate,Orwell was right.

Here is the precise part of it which generates the evil: the belief that Scientology is "the only way out", and that failure of Scientology would condemn you and all you love to an eternity of suffering.

Once you buy into that, then ANYTHING can be justified.

Get old people to hand over their entire retirement savings for Scientology? It's for the greater good.

Fair gaming of troublesome SPs? It's for the greater good.

Murder of those who might threaten "Mankind's only hope"? It's for the greater good.

Communism has resulted in the murder of somewhere around 100 million people, with the people doing the killing doing so because they were convinced that it was "for the greater good". If Scientology ever had gotten real political control over a region, do not think that they would not have indulged in liquidation of troublesome people.

I still think there is a real risk of tragedy if DM ever decides that he's cornered. Something like Jonestown.

Scientology is like Ebola coated candy co
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I admit to formerly idealistic, but not naive, and
gullible.

Scientology Koan:

What Is The Origination Of
1 PC CLAPPING?

(for their own blind spot)

Sesshu+landscape.jpg



free bonus zen brush painting
provided for spiritual gravitas.

 

phenomanon

Canyon
I fooking don't understand that when I click on 'Reply' the whole fooking thread shows up!!?
I go down thru it, and click on 'reply' again, and I get this blank screen. So by now I have forgotten what I want to say.
Dammit! It sucks to be 87 and losing your shit!:geekon:
 
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