Why not let YOUR child be a part of the SO?

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
After reading responses to the thread "They're coming for your children" there seems to be a commonality amongst some of the members of ESMB.

Looks like even while still "in" many of you would not allow your children to b recruited.

What were your indicators when the recruitment attempts happened?

Had you heard "entheta" about the SO?

Did you feel your children were too young to make a lifelong decision?

Did you want your children to experience the "WOG" world so they could make an informed decision?

Any other reasons such as education, etc...?

As an EX who now has a 12 year old child, I know what my reaction would be to the recruitment process at this time. Reading the posts makes my blood literally chill and the hair on my arms stand up.

I'm not sure how I would have reacted were I still indoctrinated into the group think instilled by the cult. My impression is that I may have allowed it in order to put group think ahead of my own better judgement. Gosh, I sure hope I wouldn't have done that!!!!:omg:
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
My Mom wanted to keep me out of the SO. She also, though still in, won't let my younger brother go into the SO now. She never has clearly explained that to me.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Even tho I was a scn when my 12 yr old was being recruited...I ridged like crazy! I think NO one should be allowed to talk to anyone under the age of 18 regarding recruitment of ANYTHING, ANY GROUP, etc! :grouch:

YET, there was a part of me that kinda not mind IF she went in (once she was 18 tho and not a second before!). Since I was a devout scn and we looked at things like this like Catholics look at the Convents and Seminary kinda thing. :yes: At the same time, I knew that it wasn't gonna happen and I was GLAD!
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I so did NOT want to agree to my daughter going in the SO. But I got talked into it. It only lasted 5 months. But the stigma lasts a lifetime.

Why didn't I want her to join?
1. She was only 15
2. At that point she swore she wanted babies at some point
3. She would be a 5 hour drive and I wasn't done being a mommy
4. 1000's of reasons I can't even remember

What they didn't deliver as promised:
1. didn't finish her education
2. didn't finish teaching her to drive
3. didn't get her health care when she was sick. They finally did after I threatened them.
4. And numerous other things that I've thankfully forgotten. Thankfully she saw the writing on the wall and left.
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
My daughter was only 15 when they tried to recruit her. They told her many acceptable truths (= lies) about the SO, that she would travel around the world and would be able to see all those beautiful places (they didn't tell her that she would only go from one org building to the next one), that she would live with young people and they would have lots of parties and fun, that she would get plenty of pocket money, and so on, ad infinitum.

I objected to her going into the SO because she was too young to make such an important decision, because she was unaware of the actual conditions within the SO (of which I, on the other hand, have already been aware at the time), and because I knew that the only thing that she was being fed by the recruiters were so-called acceptable truths (= lies).

I knew she wanted children ( I now have the most beautiful grand children I could have wished for) and for me, I was looking forward to eventually be a grandmother to her children.

I was on staff in a class 5 org and I found it a harrowing experience. I knew that in the SO it was many times worse, and I didn't want her to get trapped into a situation like that. I also knew that my daughter was very strong-willed and that she would not have lasted in the SO for long. So why even try and risk her spirit being broken by the experience? I didn't want them to break her spirit.

She is blessed with a sharp intelligence and loads of common sense. Unsurprisingly, she was the first one in the family to have dropped out of the cult, years before her mom and dad.

Opter
 
My daughter was only 15 when they tried to recruit her. They told her many acceptable truths (= lies) about the SO, that she would travel around the world and would be able to see all those beautiful places (they didn't tell her that she would only go from one org building to the next one), that she would live with young people and they would have lots of parties and fun, that she would get plenty of pocket money, and so on, ad infinitum.

I objected to her going into the SO because she was too young to make such an important decision, because she was unaware of the actual conditions within the SO (of which I, on the other hand, have already been aware at the time), and because I knew that the only thing that she was being fed by the recruiters were so-called acceptable truths (= lies).

I knew she wanted children ( I now have the most beautiful grand children I could have wished for) and for me, I was looking forward to eventually be a grandmother to her children.

I was on staff in a class 5 org and I found it a harrowing experience. I knew that in the SO it was many times worse, and I didn't want her to get trapped into a situation like that. I also knew that my daughter was very strong-willed and that she would not have lasted in the SO for long. So why even try and risk her spirit being broken by the experience? I didn't want them to break her spirit.

She is blessed with a sharp intelligence and loads of common sense. Unsurprisingly, she was the first one in the family to have dropped out of the cult, years before her mom and dad.

Opter

Your daughter has a lot to be proud of--herself, and her parents.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
My story is similar to Opter's

My story is similar to Opter's. We were ready to allow her to join at 18 but not before then. I will divide my wife's and my thoughts into two separate categories: 1. Things we wanted for our Daugher 2. Things we wanted for ourselves.

For our daughter:
We wanted her to complete her education at least through high school.
We felt she was much too young at 14 to make a decision of this magnitude.
We felt that it was our duty to oversee her activities up until age 18.
She had been taking piano for 10 years and voice for 2 years and was talented in those areas and we wanted her to expand on those talents.
We felt all children were entitled to have a childhood and not commence working without experienceing a good childhood.
We knew the challenges of adolescence and wanted to be there to help guide her through it.
We wanted her to experience having babbies and raising children.

For Ourselves:
We had been good parents up to this point and wanted to complete our reposibilites.
We wanted to have proximity to her at all times and be a part of all the major events of her life up until she was an adult.
We were hoping she would marry and have children so that we could be grandchildren.
We did not want her to be "raised" by some unqualified nanny which would casue us constant worry.
lkwdblds
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
My story is similar to Opter's. We were ready to allow her to join at 18 but not before then. I will divide my wife's and my thoughts into two separate categories: 1. Things we wanted for our Daugher 2. Things we wanted for ourselves.

For our daughter:
We wanted her to complete her education at least through high school.
We felt she was much too young at 14 to make a decision of this magnitude.
We felt that it was our duty to oversee her activities up until age 18.
She had been taking piano for 10 years and voice for 2 years and was talented in those areas and we wanted her to expand on those talents.
We felt all children were entitled to have a childhood and not commence working without experienceing a good childhood.
We knew the challenges of adolescence and wanted to be there to help guide her through it.
We wanted her to experience having babbies and raising children.

For Ourselves:
We had been good parents up to this point and wanted to complete our reposibilites.
We wanted to have proximity to her at all times and be a part of all the major events of her life up until she was an adult.
We were hoping she would marry and have children so that we could be grandchildren.
We did not want her to be "raised" by some unqualified nanny which would casue us constant worry.
lkwdblds

Hi,
I've never been "In", so my "knowledge" about Scn is limited; but being a parent myself, my thoughts would probably have been much similar to yours. This brings up one question (probably a stupid one):

How did these thoughts fit into your belief system at that time?

I mean: didn't you see your kid(s) as "eternal spirits", billions of years of age? And if you did, how could you get along with this cognitive dissonance?
 

Xclam

Patron
I mean: didn't you see your kid(s) as "eternal spirits", billions of years of age? And if you did, how could you get along with this cognitive dissonance?

Oh being a Scientologist is all about getting along with cognitive dissonance. Constantly. And it's amazing how easy it is.

Having teenage kids myself, my blood freezes just thinking of sending them to the SO. Poor kids who end up there.
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
Survey answers

After reading responses to the thread "They're coming for your children" there seems to be a commonality amongst some of the members of ESMB.

Looks like even while still "in" many of you would not allow your children to b recruited.

What were your indicators when the recruitment attempts happened?

Had you heard "entheta" about the SO?

Did you feel your children were too young to make a lifelong decision?

Did you want your children to experience the "WOG" world so they could make an informed decision?

Any other reasons such as education, etc...?

As an EX who now has a 12 year old child, I know what my reaction would be to the recruitment process at this time. Reading the posts makes my blood literally chill and the hair on my arms stand up.

I'm not sure how I would have reacted were I still indoctrinated into the group think instilled by the cult. My impression is that I may have allowed it in order to put group think ahead of my own better judgement. Gosh, I sure hope I wouldn't have done that!!!!:omg:

At first I thought the Sea Org would be great for my child, until he did a contract at a class v Org and I witnessed some Sea Org treating him like a piece of shit, I thought, oh well there loss cause there is no way I am letting him in now with those hitler nazi losers:no: .

The last recruitment cycle he had I told Sam who is the recruiter at AOSH ANZO that if my son joined the SO and I found out something bad goes down with him I will walk onto the base and smash every single window until he was released from the SO, She looked at me and knew I was 100% serious, and I do not remember seeing her again:omg:.

Mmmm I wonder why that is, I think its because bad shit goes down in the SO on a daily basis.......

I mean we all know there isnt a parent that would not do anything to prevent their child from harm mentally, spiritually & physically unless they were brainwashed .....right?

To answer your Q's:

Looks like even while still "in" many of you would not allow your children to b recruited.
thats cause a)there are so many so crew that are assholes and dont care about anything other than making money and threaten people with declares if they dont give their children up.
b)the lie about covering medical expenses.

c) If your daughter becomes pregnant she will have to get an abortion or leave and be told she is a degraded being for doing the most natural thing a woman can do..... Um maybe you should start reading this board and you will realise why Scientologists and ex Scientologist would rather die than have their amazing child in the Shit Org...Oops typo I mean Sea Org...... I am too tired to write all the reasons:omg:

What were your indicators when the recruitment attempts happened?QUOTE]
Actually, not bad cause I used to laugh when I asked certain questions and watch the squirming and lying through their teeth, especially Sam who should no better:smack:
Most of the time it was just pathetic and they actually keep people up till all hours of the morning in attempt to cave the person in to make them sign, so that was really just annoying......

Um is this a survey????
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
I did not ever "fully" by the party line.

Hi,
I've never been "In", so my "knowledge" about Scn is limited; but being a parent myself, my thoughts would probably have been much similar to yours. This brings up one question (probably a stupid one):

How did these thoughts fit into your belief system at that time?

I mean: didn't you see your kid(s) as "eternal spirits", billions of years of age? And if you did, how could you get along with this cognitive dissonance?

Excellent question! It is so good that I had a long "comm lag" and had to take time to come up with an answer. Let me put it this way - I was different from most people who joined C of S in the early 70's.

I had been to the University and had a Bachelors degree in Math with a minor in Physics. I was well read, having read most of the classics by Dostoyevski, Sartre, Camus, Somerset Maugham, and many others. I was 30 years old and had spent 8 years in aerospace, including 5 years at IBM. I had been around some top scientists and physicists at NASA. In short, I was not a drop out from the WOG world. I was able to achieve there. Also, I never did drugs. The people in Scn at the time were about 10 years younger than me on average, most had taken drugs either socially are as part of their lifestyle, had the appearance of "hippies" or ex hippies, were into heavy metal music and had no money saved up. I was accepted by them but looked at as very conservative.

The next factor occured on the Apollo in 1973 (read my story - "The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo in 1973" I was posted as Purchasing Officer in Portugal to spend the whole day making phone calls by phone to obtain prices. The fact that I did not speak a word of Portuguese was not deemed important by LRH or any of my Seniors. That posting did not last long and I was reposted as a Programs Chief by LRH himself, expected to do Data Evaluations but I had not done the Data Evaluators Course!! Neither post I took had any hat pack created for it. I was simply ordered to. "Start" I got busted after 3 weeks as Programs Chief and was then accused directly, by Hubbard, using a Commodore's Messenger, of embezzlling funds from the Org I left before coming to the Apollo. I told the messenger, I had not stolen one penny from any Org but had given them all my money and worked my ass off for them. The messenger left to tell LRH and returned and to tell me, "You have lied before and denied your crimes but this time it won't work."
LRH had done me a favor! Up to that point, I had thought of him as almost a God and thought that he knew everything and dispensed perfect justice.

Since I KNEW 100% that I had not taken a penny from my Org, I LEARNED THAT LRH COULD BE WRONG. Shortly afterwords, I routed out of the Sea ORg and was told by a 19 year guy reading an LRH reference that I was either insane or incompetent for leaving the Sea Org and that I was a Degraded Being. I did not believe any of these LRH assessments of me were true, in fact I knew 100% that they were not true.

In short, by being lied to and being treated like dirt, LRH had done me a favor in that I learned that he was not always right. I remained in Scientology 28 more years but my favorte LRH Tech was the Code of Honor, I also liked the Essay, "What is Greatness? and I loved the LRH quote, "Its only true if its true for you." I did believe I was an immortal thetan and believed it was good to support C of S but due to my experiences before Scientology, being successful in the "WOG" world and my experiences on the Apollo, learning that LRH could be totally wrong on something important to me, I kept my head on straight and "kept my own consul and was my own advisor". In short, I kept my personal integrity and never sold out totally to C of S. It took me a long time to figure out C of S was corrupt but once I did, I had no problem kissing them off and moving on. When C of S started monkeying around with my kids and using their stat driven insanities and radical techniques on them, that pushed me over the edge very quickly and I decided to leave. I hope that answers your question
lkwdblds
 
Last edited:

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Excellent question! It is so good that I had a long "comm lag" and had to take time to come up with an answer. Let me put it this way - I was different from most people who joined C of S in the early 70's.

There's nothing wrong with "comm lags" in my opinion, it's the lack of them that worries me, because that often indicates that I just get as prefabricated answer - or just one that nobody ever put a second of thought into.

Oh, and the internet still isn't a real-time media, and when I'm "on the road" for example, my "comm lag" might be a week or even longer. A good reason not to use IRC for me. :)

I had been to the University and had a Bachelors degree in Math with a minor in Physics. I was well read, having read most of the classics by Dostoyevski, Sartre, Camus, Somerset Maugham, and many others. I was 30 years old and had spent 8 years in aerospace, including 5 years at IBM. I had been around some top scientists and physicists at NASA. In short, I was not a drop out from the WOG world. I was able to achieve there. Also, I never did drugs. The people in Scn at the time were about 10 years younger than me on average, most had taken drugs either socially are as part of their lifestyle, had the appearance of "hippies" or ex hippies, were into heavy metal music and had no money saved up. I was accepted by them but looked at as very conservative.

The next factor occured on the Apollo in 1973 (read my story - "The Old Days - Aboard the Apollo in 1973" I was posted as Purchasing Officer in Portugal to spend the whole day making phone calls by phone to obtain prices. The fact that I did not speak a word of Portuguese was not deemed important by LRH or any of my Seniors. That posting did not last long and I was reposted as a Programs Chief by LRH himself, expected to do Data Evaluations but I had not done the Data Evaluators Course!! Neither course I took had any hat pack created for it. I was simply ordered to. "Start" I got busted after 3 weeks as Programs Chief and was then accused directly, by Hubbard, using a Commodore's Messenger, of embezzlling funds from the Org I left before coming to the Apollo. I told the messenger, I had not stolen one penny from any Org but had given them all my money and worked my ass off for them. The messenger left to tell LRH and returned and to tell me, "You have lied before and denied your crimes but this time it won't work."
LRH had done me a favor! Up to that point, I had thought of him as almost a God and thought that he knew everything and dispensed perfect justice.

Since I KNEW 100% that I had not taken a penny from my Org, I LEARNED THAT LRH COULD BE WRONG. Shortly afterwords, I routed out of the Sea ORg and was told by a 19 year guy reading an LRH reference that I was either insane or incompetent for leaving the Sea Org and that I was a Degraded Being. I did not believe any of these LRH assessments of me were true, in fact I knew 100% that they were not true.

In short, by being lied to and being treated like dirt, LRH had done me a favor in that I learned that he was not always right. I remained in Scientology 28 more years but my favorte LRH Tech was the Code of Honor, I also liked the Essay, "What is Greatness? and I loved the LRH quote, "Its only true if its true for you." I did believe I was an immortal thetan and believed it was good to support C of S but due to my experiences before Scientology, being successful in the "WOG" world and my experiences on the Apollo, learning that LRH could be totally wrong on something important to me, I kept my head on straight and "kept my own consul and was my own advisor". In short, I kept my personal integrity and never sold out totally to C of S. It took me a long time to figure out C of S was corrupt but once I did, I had no problem kissing them off and moving on. When C of S started monkeying around with my kids and using their stat driven insanities and radical techniques on them, that pushed me over the edge very quickly and I decided to leave. I hope that answers your question
lkwdblds

It doesn't really answer the " how" part of my question, but I guess "just leave" would answer that part, so I'd say yes, you answered my question sufficiently. :) Thanks.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
How I was able to handle C of S

There's nothing wrong with "comm lags" in my opinion, it's the lack of them that worries me, because that often indicates that I just get as prefabricated answer - or just one that nobody ever put a second of thought into.

Oh, and the internet still isn't a real-time media, and when I'm "on the road" for example, my "comm lag" might be a week or even longer. A good reason not to use IRC for me. :)



It doesn't really answer the " how" part of my question, but I guess "just leave" would answer that part, so I'd say yes, you answered my question sufficiently. :) Thanks.

Mr. N - I aim to please, I'll answer the "how" part. As far as the actual leaving, I developed coronary artery disease (blocked arteries) as I approached my 60's. I had to start taking several prescription drugs to keep my blood pressure down, reduce cholesterol, etc. These drugs made me sleepy and forgetful and I was not sessionable and actually had trouble studying, because of my mind feeling fogged in, so I routed out of the Org on a Medical Leave.

As to how I was able to try and restrict my daughter's participation in the Sea Org while I believed in the tenet's of Scn and that my daughter was not really a kid but a thetan billions or trillions of years of age, here is how I reconciled that. First, I was more than happy to let her join the Sea Org when she was 18 which was in 4 years. Certainly, I would not allow her to join at age 1 (they wouldn't allow that either), neither would I allow her to go in at 2,3,4,5, etc. but at age 18 she could go in as an adult without my consent. Certainly there is some age at which I would allow her to go in and I chose 18 as the very best of the options. This way she could complete high school and she would be a lot more mature than at 14 and could make a better decision as to whether she really wanted to join or not. Also, at 14 she had no job skills and could only be used in a cleaning type capacity, i.e. cleaning rooms, cleanin toilets, etc. perhaps filing, stuffing envelopes, etc. I thought, why deny her her childhood to do forced menial labor?

At age 18, with the student hat under her belt she could have gotten a better job as a word clearer, an Examiner, or something other than menial labor. With the life expectancy for females being around 88, that would allow for a 70 year Sea Org career. Why opt for a 74 year career? To have her cleaning toilets for the first 4 years did not make sense to me. Despite the frantic stat pushes, the reality was that there was no need to push her recruitment age from 18 back to 14. It simply made no sense.

Finally, on the "how" leg of your question, there were a lot of Scientology tenets which I held to be true and a few that I did not believe were true, though I very seldom talked about those. My trip to the Apollo showed me for certain that C of S could be wrong on a major issue. I therefore focused on the things in C of S which I thought were valid but never agreed to the things I thought were invalid. So it was with joining the S.O., I thought that when she was of legal age at 18 and if she chose to join, me, my wife and my daughter would be doing a wonderful thing to further the C of S. In the meantime, I did not see that I was harming C of S by not agreeing to her joining at 14. Had I not been willing for her to go in at 18, then your question would really be hard to answer but that is not the case here.
lkwdblds
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
Because I tried to join it once as a youngster and I ran back home due to fear.

For once my fear served me but I knew my son did not have a clue to what it was about.

Since we were low income he thought the money each week would be the greatest, he was about 13.

Now he says thanks to me for saying no.

I also talked him out of the army too and that was much harder. He then looked at the links I posted to him and decided not to join.

Barb

After reading responses to the thread "They're coming for your children" there seems to be a commonality amongst some of the members of ESMB.

Looks like even while still "in" many of you would not allow your children to b recruited.

What were your indicators when the recruitment attempts happened?

Had you heard "entheta" about the SO?

Did you feel your children were too young to make a lifelong decision?

Did you want your children to experience the "WOG" world so they could make an informed decision?

Any other reasons such as education, etc...?

As an EX who now has a 12 year old child, I know what my reaction would be to the recruitment process at this time. Reading the posts makes my blood literally chill and the hair on my arms stand up.

I'm not sure how I would have reacted were I still indoctrinated into the group think instilled by the cult. My impression is that I may have allowed it in order to put group think ahead of my own better judgement. Gosh, I sure hope I wouldn't have done that!!!!:omg:
 

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
Such wonderful replies to my thread!

It makes sense to me to let one's children make such an important decision (or any life-changing decision of importance) once they are legally an adult. Only then can they make the decision based upon information garnered through life skills, education, and their wants and desires.

I do not agree with the regging actions put into place. The deceit and lies are morally wrong and go against the Code of Honor (both LRH's version and my own personal code).

But I still am curious as to why anyone might not voice their opinions or their observations concerning the SO to their children. Must be the Ronbot phenonema where Scn word is taken as gospel. :D
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
I will never allow my sons to join the SO. I know the truth and therefore I would just never allow it.
 
Top